Christians, do you agree that the bible is written ambiguously?

a reply to: Joecroft

Not crazy at all.

There definitely is a great many truths in the bible, both OT and NT. Like Jesus' parable of the wheat and weeds, truth has been corrupted with falsities. All it takes is an inquisitive mind to separate the truth from the lies. And yes, the Spirit of Truth is what truly guides anyone who seeks, it can give discernment to any religious text and gives the one who discerns the same message throughout all of them. "Jesus" spans across many different religions as one poster has already stated, the truth can not be separated from the lies or the lies couldn't be sold as truth.

We all have a propensity for truth, if there is no truth among the lies then the lies would not be accepted. Problem is, people are indoctrinated into believing every word before they are old enough to read it or understand it for themselves.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: arpgme

I don't see how this negates the ambiguity of the bible. Even Jesus spoke in parables so that some would not understand. That's the definition of ambiguity, using a form of speech that can be interpreted in many ways, right or wrong.

Ambiguous to those without God The Merciful Father. Clear to those with God The Merciful Father.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I thought everyone was God's children. Why did God create people who are inherently unsavable? That doesn't make any sense.

originally posted by: AinElohim
Excuse me... can you visualize this for me? the denominations you mentioned all preach the same truth, that truth is the Holy Bible and Jesus.

Well they all make the same claim. The claim isn't necessarily true though without evidence.

It can not be denied that Jesus is the highest moral philosopher ever to have been in this world. Jesus can not be debated and cross examined like Plato or Socrates.

This is a naive and short sighted statement.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you wold like to debate him feel free...unlike Plato and Aristotle who can be debated all day long, heck one can even go start a school or teach in class the debatable differences between Plato and Aristotle.

But you know last night I was thinking that there could be some kind of conspiracy going on, figuring this Jesus philosophy and the idea of God has made it all the way into our common law systems pretty much worldwide.

Our common law teaches whether one likes it or not, it teaches common decency and fellowship between people.

I think the Jesus deniers should would be better off if they just got with Satan, Satan can fortify you against these do-gooders much more efficiently than the atheistic leadership worldwide.

a reply to: AinElohim

This is a very simplistic way of looking at how Jesus came to dominate the Western world, when in reality that was done through the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun.

There is little actually KNOWN about Jesus. We have four accounts of Jesus that are rather biased and at times contradictory. Outside of that some secular scholars MAY have written about him (but the evidence is shaky). Debating what Jesus said and did is tough since we can't be sure he DID or SAID any of the things attributed to him. BUT off the top of my head, Buddha is another character from the past who has reached billions of people through his morality.

This is a very simplistic way of looking at how Jesus came to dominate the Western world, when in reality that was done through the point of a sword or the barrel of a gun.

I think I would blame man or mankind for this flaw, afterall Jesus and the bible explicitly talks about the wickedness of man.

There is little actually KNOWN about Jesus. We have four accounts of Jesus that are rather biased and at times contradictory. Outside of that some secular scholars MAY have written about him (but the evidence is shaky). Debating what Jesus said and did is tough since we can't be sure he DID or SAID any of the things attributed to him. BUT off the top of my head, Buddha is another character from the past who has reached billions of people through his morality.

Jesus is every man, Jesus is inside of us all, women alike and gender neutrals.

In my opinion there is no higher authority than Jesus, not even said governments.

I like it when my political leaders make mention of the bible, or say something like the word God, or evildoers.

Some are outright devout Christians, I am satisfied with this idea...

"in God we Trust"

originally posted by: AinElohim
Jesus is every man, Jesus is inside of us all, women alike and gender neutrals.

In my opinion there is no higher authority than Jesus, not even said governments.

I like it when my political leaders make mention of the bible, or say something like the word God, or evildoers.

Some are outright devout Christians, I am satisfied with this idea...

"in God we Trust"

Such words terrify me from our leaders because they are usually prefaced by some atrocity they are about to commit. History is a very illuminating account of the misuse of religion by our political leaders. After studying history, there should be nothing more fearful than a politician citing god for his actions.

originally posted by: Joecroft


But your above post, is exactly what the OP is driving at. You see, you’ve just entered into the realm of “my definition of Jesus” = “highest moral philosopher”; but thousands of Christian denominations would disagree with you, they believe He’s The Son of God, or that He’s just God etc…and if you don’t accept their view, then your OUT of their club, but, they love you all the same lol

Trinitarian or non-trinitarian really makes no difference... I don't think the christian are killing eachother over this, it is just a debating point between them. Both camps still love eachother man.

Christian... me? nah bro I can not claim that honor yet.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are only unsavable by choice, therefore you are only God's chlid by choice.

You either believe that Jesus died for your sins, or you dont.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That is dumb. You don't choose to be someone's offspring. Do you ever listen to your verbal hopscotch you go through to rationalize contradictions in the bible?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are only unsavable by choice, therefore you are only God's chlid by choice.

You either believe that Jesus died for your sins, or you dont.

But earlier you said speaking in tongues was for unbelievers. Why aren't you or someone like you at his front door right now speaking in tongues for him to observe?

You said God didn't give him and other unbelievers the ears to hear parables. Did God look into his future, see that no one was going to speak in tongues for him, and decide, 'oh well, he's a lost cause so he doesn't need these ears to hear after all. Let him be born without them'

Am I the only one who sees the deep flaw in your particular hermeneutic?

👣

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Such words terrify me from our leaders because they are usually prefaced by some atrocity they are about to commit. History is a very illuminating account of the misuse of religion by our political leaders. After studying history, there should be nothing more fearful than a politician citing god for his actions.

atrocity? do you mean like Red October... when the priests were taken outside on the streets and shot dead on the sidewalk in front of the population?

or atrocity as in Hitler ethnical cleansing all of Europe?

I think the morality of the Christian God is 'just' I trust it...

a reply to: AinElohim

Oh I never claimed that the non-religious weren't violent. I just said that politicians waving the bible around ALWAYS prefaces an atrocity or some dehumanism about to take place. Just study history and look were the side of the oppressor usually lies, usually the bible with the oppressor justifying their actions with the bible. Even in this day and age, politicians use the bible to justify intolerance towards gays, Muslims, and even still blacks. A politician saying that they are speaking for god should make ANYONE cringe secular or non-secular.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

it is the only way one can usher in this new Utopian brotherhood of man I keep hearing about...

many have tried, just go with it bro... take em around back and dispose of them!

a reply to: AinElohim

I don't even know what to say to that...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I thought everyone was God's children. Why did God create people who are inherently unsavable? That doesn't make any sense.

Everyone is not a child of God and God did not create everyone. A person is a child of God only if that one will love and obey Him. Only then is he or she a child of God. Adam and Eve were the only pattern of the human species created by God. All the rest of this human race were procreated by the their choices and corrupted by their choices.

God allows life to play out by the choices of the procreated. May sound a bit cruel to our minds but we cannot have it both ways. Either we have control of ourselves or be as robots being controlled. Predestination is by foreknowledge and not by favoritism. If any one is not saveable then it is by that ones own decision. If one does not want God then He will not force His will upon that one.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: AinElohim

I don't even know what to say to that...

have you found Je-sus?

I can take you to Jesus... walk with me a little while.

a reply to: Seede

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Could have fooled me...

originally posted by: AinElohim

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: AinElohim

I don't even know what to say to that...

have you found Je-sus?

I can take you to Jesus... walk with me a little while.

Yes, I was raised Catholic. He never answered any of my questions and concerns about contradictions so I left him behind.