Christians, do you agree that the bible is written ambiguously?

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Well, apply the technique I just presented and you will have a precise picture.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Eunuchorn

Well, is it coincident that Nineveh happens to be a hot-spot right now, and will probably soon become a war-zone? The city of Mosul is currently occupied by ISIS, which is within Nineveh's boundries.

Well, when aligned with your personal belief, yes, it is by definition: a coincidence.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

the God of the Bible promised to preserve his word to every generation Psalm 12 6-12. Therefore there is one English Bible that must be wholly preserved, complete, and without error that God has put his approval on.

Your logic is flawed. God does indeed preserve his word, the Christ, to every generation. But not by preserving one Bible. By permeating the Christ throughout the entirety of world religion and myth. Not just your tiny little corner of it. That way, when one religion reaches the end of its lifecycle, another can serve as a vehicle for the Christ. Through the ages, the Christ hops from one such vehicle to another.

Heck, you can hear the Christ in the sci-fi/comic-book mythos if you have ears to hear.

Few do.

👣

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Well, apply the technique I just presented and you will have a precise picture.

Apparently you missed the point that a technique needs to be applied in the first place to understand what is being shown instead of simply reading it and knowing it just because that is what is written.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The bible was written in that manor for the same reason that Jesus spoke in parables, so that "seeing they will not see, and hearing they will not hear". Without faith, the prophecies are not your's to interpret. Your personal starting point must be faith in Jesus' payment for our sins.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The bible was written in that manor for the same reason that Jesus spoke in parables, so that "seeing they will not see, and hearing they will not hear". Without faith, the prophecies are not your's to interpret. Your personal starting point must be faith in Jesus' payment for our sins.

As long as he ignores your tacit assumption that sin is a universal concept?

👣

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That's a nice runaround to explain the ambiguity, but it doesn't hold up in comparison to Jesus' as well as Christianity's teachings. Christianity and Jesus want as many people to believe and understand the truth as possible, yet they create an intellectual barrier of entry to finding it when it would be just as easy to make it understandable and clear for anyone. Such actions would make it much easier to convert new followers.

The only thing that the ambiguity helps is to allow the religious to maintain their superstitions in light of scientific evidence proving their holy book wrong by claiming that the passages were really metaphors and analogies instead of literal accounts.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The same goes for prophecy as well, they make them ambiguous so that any and every generation will see their time as "the" time. All those in power have to do is wage their wars and profit off of them all while orchestrating them in a manner that vaguely resembles the prophecy.

They have their guidebook right there in the bible, all they have to do is set events in a certain order and in certain regions of the world and voila! Those vague prophecies have been "fulfilled" and people continue the delusion for another generation. How long have we been saying "the end is near"?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Here are a few english versions to compare ..Deuteronomy 32:8

(ASV) When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, When he separated the children of men, He set the bounds of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.

(Bishops) When the most hyest deuided to the nations their inheritaunce, and when he seperated the sonnes of Adam, he put the borders of the nations accordyng to the number of the children of Israel:

(Brenton) When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.

(Darby) When the Most High assigned to the nations their inheritance, When he separated the sons of Adam, He set the bounds of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.

(ESV) When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

(Geneva) When the most hie God deuided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sonnes of Adam, he appoynted the borders of the people, according to the nomber of the children of Israel.

(ISV) When the Most High gave nations as their inheritance, when he separated the human race, he set boundaries for the people according to the number of the children of God.

(KJV) When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

(KJV+) When the most HighH5945 dividedH5157 to the nationsH1471 their inheritance, when he separatedH6504 the sonsH1121 of Adam,H120 he setH5324 the boundsH1367 of the peopleH5971 according to the numberH4557 of the childrenH1121 of Israel.H3478

(KJV-1611) When the most High diuided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sonnes of Adam, hee set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

(MKJV) When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of Adam, He set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of Israel.

(RV) When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, When he separated the children of men, He set the bounds of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.

(Webster) When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

(YLT) In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam--He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel.

Take note that Israel is not listed in the table of Nations but was a creation after the tower of Babel .There were only the 12/13 Patriarchs but the table of Nations lists 70 or so and had nothing to do with Israel .

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

It also helps if the populace doesn't understand its own history. Anyone who says that we are living in the end times today because things are worse than ever don't know what it was like to live in Europe during the 1300's when the Bubonic Plague was killing 30% of the population. It easy to look at all the events in the world in a vacuum then apply rose colored nostalgia to your childhood and thus conclude that everything is worse, but that is simplistic and naive. Plus it doesn't account that you gain more responsibility and knowledge of your surroundings as you get older.

End times prophecy is truly a terrible carrot on a stick for the elite. People spend their whole lives looking for and praying for the signs that will herald some of the worst widespread destruction and chaos that has ever been seen. These people must not realize what they are wishing for. This desire for the end times also lets these people wash their hands of the responsibility of fixing society. They reason that there is no point to fix anything because their savior is about to come in and fix things. Then eventually they die of old age, only to pass on to their children the same fears and insecurities. They never did anything to fix things though.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Jesus want as many people to believe and understand the truth as possible,

That isnt true, Jesus came for those who the Father calls to salvation. That is why He spoke in parables. The message was only for those who God gave the ability to comprehend. The Apostle Paul stated that prophecy was for the edification of the Church, whereas tongues was for the non-believing crowd.

A lot of people have taken the prophecies out of contex, but that doesnt mean there isnt an objective way to understand the true message.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

S+F

I think since the world became more literate, and with the wide spreading publications of the Bible into many different languages; men have endeavoured to study it’s pages more and more, and have interpreted it in many different ways.


This has resulted in over 41,000 denominations of Christianity being produced, all claiming to be “THE Truth”…I think the line graph speaks for itself…it’s officially “Houston we have a problem!!!”, if you ask me…

But don’t get me wrong, the Bible has some beautiful truth in it, but only to those who can discern it carefully; problem is, everyone claims to be able to do this…but all can’t be right/correct at the end of the day…

I personally think that only through the Spirit of truth, can one discern the Bible correctly, only in that way can a person separate the truth from the lies.

I’ve recently discovered a few Youtube accounts, who have all gone through similar experiences; which they’ve described themselves, as a “great purging”. In essence they’ve slowly learned to let go, of the doctrines of Hell, end times destruction and so forth, and have began to be led by the Spirit, into a higher truth and greater understanding of God and the Bible…

It’s funny though, because although the Bible has it’s problems, it’s almost as if there is a greater Wisdom to it, in that when a person truly seeks and begins to purge out the bad/lies, it finally leads them into Gods/truth…I know it sounds crazy, but it’s kinda true…


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
This has resulted in over 41,000 denominations of Christianity being produced, all claiming to be “THE Truth”…I think the line graph speaks for itself…it’s officially “Houston we have a problem!!!”, if you ask me…


- JC

Excuse me... can you visualize this for me? the denominations you mentioned all preach the same truth, that truth is the Holy Bible and Jesus.

It can not be denied that Jesus is the highest moral philosopher ever to have been in this world. Jesus can not be debated and cross examined like Plato or Socrates.

The Bible is a living breathing book, but I guess we are lucky (in my nation anyway) not to have people with those morals governing people and actions in a society.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1I
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The same goes for prophecy as well, they make them ambiguous so that any and every generation will see their time as "the" time. All those in power have to do is wage their wars and profit off of them all while orchestrating them in a manner that vaguely resembles the prophecy.

They have their guidebook right there in the bible, all they have to do is set events in a certain order and in certain regions of the world and voila! Those vague prophecies have been "fulfilled" and people continue the delusion for another generation. How long have we been saying "the end is near"?

I think they just see the evils of the world or the reality of the situation and the evilness of man in each generation.

the Holy Bible has a way of removing the veils of reality, and I think this is a more rational way of approaching your outlook.

a reply to: AinElohim

Originally posted by AinElohim
Excuse me... can you visualize this for me? the denominations you mentioned all preach the same truth, that truth is the Holy Bible and Jesus.

Yeah, I can, think of ALL the doctrinal differences between each Christian denomination that you can think of, and then draw the line graph…Remember that scene in Heroes, when Hiro discovers the intersecting time line, up in the loft…there’s your visual lol

But sure, all Christians denominations will have a couple of truths, that they all believe in and accept etc… but there’s a huge number of doctrinal differences, which also divide them.

Many Christians state that they accept one another, i.e the different denominations etc in spite of their differences, but in reality, every Church wants you to follow their version of the truth.


On a side note – I don’t think I’m ready for that kind of music lol

- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: AinElohim

Originally posted by AinElohim
Excuse me... can you visualize this for me? the denominations you mentioned all preach the same truth, that truth is the Holy Bible and Jesus.

Yeah, I can, think of ALL the doctrinal differences between each Christian denomination that you can think of, and then draw the line graph…Remember that scene in Heroes, when Hiro discovers the intersecting time line, up in the loft…there’s your visual lol

But sure, all Christians denominations will have a couple of truths, that they all believe in and accept etc… but there’s a huge number of doctrinal differences, which also divide them.

Many Christians state that they accept one another, i.e the different denominations etc in spite of their differences, but in reality, every Church wants you to follow their version of the truth.


On a side note – I don’t think I’m ready for that kind of music lol

- JC

do they fight? are the violent and hate?

are they infringing on your freedoms?

what are they doing to you and others?

a reply to: Joecroft

you gotta bring me up to speed bro... I'm an evil bastid and I need me them Christians!

I am trying to understand the base concept of this type of discrimination or hatred or whatever people call it, it's surely not antisemitism.

I just hope it's not some MKUltra mind control conspiracy crap like that, cause I'll walk right out this door.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If you know that Elyon "The Most High" who is Jesus's merciful heavenly father is the true God and yahweh the war god is a pretender then the true interpretation of the Bible is obvious, not ambiguous.


Follow The Merciful Heavenly Father's Spirit as you read instead of the aggressive war "god" yahweh.

a reply to: AinElohim

Originally posted by AinElohim
do they fight? are the violent and hate?

are they infringing on your freedoms?

what are they doing to you and others?

But the Op’s question, is about whether the Bible and it’s interpretations, lead to Ambiguity. He’s not asking whether that Ambiguity infringes on people’s freedoms, or whether it leads to violence. It’s an interesting question though, but it’s a big topic in an of itself…


But I will say this, I’m not a fundamentalist Christian, so most of those questions don’t effect me personally, unless it went through a friend or family member etc…

Originally posted by AinElohim
It can not be denied that Jesus is the highest moral philosopher ever to have been in this world. Jesus can not be debated and cross examined like Plato or Socrates.

But your above post, is exactly what the OP is driving at. You see, you’ve just entered into the realm of “my definition of Jesus” = “highest moral philosopher”; but thousands of Christian denominations would disagree with you, they believe He’s The Son of God, or that He’s just God etc…and if you don’t accept their view, then your OUT of their club, but, they love you all the same lol

Originally posted by AinElohim
you gotta bring me up to speed bro... I'm an evil bastid and I need me them Christians!

Not sure I’m following you here, you said above that you think that “Jesus is the highest moral philosopher ever to have been in this world” and yet above you state you’re an “I'm an evil bastid and I need me them Christians!”…???


Maybe you were just having some fun; are you a Christian…?


- JC

a reply to: arpgme

I don't see how this negates the ambiguity of the bible. Even Jesus spoke in parables so that some would not understand. That's the definition of ambiguity, using a form of speech that can be interpreted in many ways, right or wrong.