New poll finds Americans think rich should be taxed more

a reply to: Indigo5

the problem with "raise taxes on the wealthy" as a solution to anything is to define what is wealthy. In my mind, I imagine such a debate to be akin to trying to spot the football in the Superbowl with the QB trying to kick it back a few more inches, and the linebacker doing the same.

Meanwhile, as someone in the middle class I am still getting stuck with a whopping 40% taxation on my annual bonus. A bonus I kicked my own ass for a year to earn. 40%....think about that.

I am not wealthy. Not at all. Barely making my way into the middle-middle class. I make enough that if my kids want to go to college I am expected to pay for it. I can't even fathom such a notion. Opportunities made available to children of people who make $5 or $10k a year less than me are bountiful.

So when I kill myself to make a little extra scratch to help fund college, or maybe finally buy myself a wedding band after 20 years of marriage, and Uncle Sam determines that my good fortune will be his good fortune....its a bit hard to swallow. Meanwhile, people who make half what I make end up having their lives subsidized out of that 40%.

I am taxed into poverty, then denied access to the services that are offered to those in poverty. Services paid for with money taken from me to begin with.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

the problem with "raise taxes on the wealthy" as a solution to anything is to define what is wealthy.

Well.. raising taxes on the wealthy would not be my first solution. The tax code needs to be overhauled...big time. Again, I am not sure the OP spoke about raising taxes on the wealthy? Only that they should pay more. It's about "effective" tax vs. actual IMO.

that said...if we were to raise the "rate" (a flawed solution absent tax reform) then we could aim high and use income distribution as a guide and focus on the 2%.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5
Meanwhile, as someone in the middle class I am still getting stuck with a whopping 40% taxation on my annual bonus. A bonus I kicked my own ass for a year to earn. 40%....think about that.

And if you had received that same bonus in the form of Stock grants (RSUs), Options, investment income, capital gains etc. You would pay 0% if it was less than 75k and you were married...then only 15% up to 465K...and nothing if you managed transactions through the Caymans or employ other easy tricks.

again...you speak to my problem...not rates...but a system that is designed to tax the middle class at the expense of the wealthy.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

So when I kill myself to make a little extra scratch to help fund college, or maybe finally buy myself a wedding band after 20 years of marriage, and Uncle Sam determines that my good fortune will be his good fortune....

Quick advice....529 college saving plan...tax free and go for an index fund with very small "management fees"...also Roth or Sep IRA...it can allow you to sock up to 25K a year more less into retirement savings (again index funds, nothing fancy and look for LOW management fees)and it is exempt from being taken away in bankruptcy (up to 1.2 Million) if times ever get really bad. One of the few places the average Joe is safe from the banks.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5I am taxed into poverty, then denied access to the services that are offered to those in poverty. Services paid for with money taken from me to begin with.

No doubt the Middle Class needs to be taxed less...we are sliding into poverty and mobility through the middle class is severly hobbled. Right now in financial mobility (growing wealth and security)...the middle class is running in deep mud uphill, while the top 1-3% are running on state of the art sprinting track. The Poverty class is growing not out of laziness, but rather because the middle class is sliding into poverty...the middle class is working their ass off just to STAY ALIVE.

We need to fix it...and an improving economy in a system that shovels the profits toward the top 3% gets us what we got...Everyone saying the economy is going great, but all the returns of that improvement settling with those that are already wealthy.

a reply to: Indigo5

i would be foolish to dispute anything you have said here.

And were I half my age, would likely take the advice on funding college. Now I am in that chapter of my life where I have to hurry to fund some sort of sunset years.

To everyone who is upset with our current tax system and want them to scrap it instead of just raising taxes:

Ben Carson believes in a flat tax. A flat tax would tax everyone fairly and not allow for loopholes or exemptions. The rich and poor would each pay their fair share. It's also much simpler and the correct amount could be deducted from your wages automatically - meaning reporting your income taxes every year would be a much faster and less painful process.

I have argued for the flat tax on ATS years ago but not many people thought it was a good idea. I don't know why - I think a flat tax is the best possible way we could be taxed. It's unfortunate most everyone here is obsessed with Rand Paul, who is IMO a piece of crap on the same level as Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. His stance on taxes is just to lower them - the same lie told over and over again by every piece of crap that came before him that raised taxes instead.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

They shouldn't be taxed more, all I want is for them to be taxed equally.

I pay 40% they should pay 40%, any tax system not based on ratio to income is B$.

If you qualify for welfare than obviously you shouldn't have to pay taxes, but their should be time limit for those able working, and mandatory birth control and drug testing.

I get drug tested for my job just like many Americans why shouldn't they, also if they don't want birth control then don't take the money. No body is forcing them to take it. If they can't afford to feed themselves why should they be able to have more kids on someone else’s dime.

This is coming from someone who was on welfare when i was a child for a limited time when we first came to this country.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: AlaskanDad

They shouldn't be taxed more, all I want is for them to be taxed equally.

I pay 40% they should pay 40%, any tax system not based on ratio to income is B$.

Just an FYI what you are talking about here is a flat tax - a tax system that taxes everyone's income based on a percentage. However it wouldn't need to be that high. The U.S. could operate on a flat tax around 10 to 15%

a reply to: peskyhumans

Yes I know , but most people don't understand the importance of flat tax or what it means. 40% was just a number but if the (.5% top wealth) had to pay the same ratio , you can bet that it would be really really low and likely below 10%.


I'm sure I'm minutes away from being attacked by the republicans about manipulated studies that show that the 1% pay more, but fail to realise that they ALSO make more and hold the majority of the wealth.

So to be fair we should pay the same percentage and remove all the deductions.

However, that will never happen. Can you imagine what billionaires who control our regulations in this country would have to pay on their income from all their sources of income.

Yeah , it ain't going to happen while they control the lobbying industries dream team of lawyers that draft all our regulations for our congress to robosign.

That is why you get "We Have to Pass the Bill to Find Out What’s In It" statement. Its because all the bills are created and drafted by the lobbying industry.

a reply to: AlaskanDad



Personally, I believe there should be a flat and FAIR tax that is equally used across all income levels.

One of the main reasons consumption tax will never be put in place:

When oil companies are doing their work, and transporting their wares, they use what is known as "red diesel". Red diesel is simply regular diesel with a red dye included. It is illegal to use red diesel without approval.

The reason for red diesel: taxes on sales of items are intended to be levied on the final sale of the product. Goods purchased in the "manufacturing process" are not subject to tax. Thus, if i own a restaurant I am not paying taxes on the new stove I buy. But if i buy one for home, I do pay tax. The reason: the restaurant is the food manufacturer, and the stove is a tool used in the manufacturing process.

Oil companies spend enormous amounts of cash on manufacturing. To levy taxes on the items purchased to complete manufacturing would be a substantial increase (never mind that it was only about 20 years ago that they figured out that they shouldn't be taxed on the fuel, and sued the government for wrongly paid taxes).

The only way a "consumption tax" works for regular folks is if companies bear the majority of the burden. If they continue to have abated taxes due to manufacturing, the end result is you and I pay all the taxes when we buy groceries.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
Nice to see a poll that agrees with my personal opinion which is, tax the rich, they will not go hungry!

According to the poll, 68 percent of those questioned said wealthy households pay too little in federal taxes; only 11 percent said the wealthy pay too much.

Republicans, in general, are more likely than Democrats to oppose higher taxes, except when it comes to low-income families.

Only 19 percent of respondents said low-income families pay too little in federal taxes, but there was a significant split between the political parties. Just 10 percent of Democrats said low-income families pay too little, while 33 percent of Republicans said they don't pay enough.

source

Count me in! I too, believe the wealthy should pay a little more.

Furthermore, I believe that the uber wealthy should pay a lot more.

After WWII, I think the top marginal rate was around 90% and even during the Carter years, it was around 70%. What is it now, 38%?

F&S

Any money they do not spend. If 99% of the wealth ends up in the pockets of 1%, what will the economy run on? The system works to scim off profit so that wealth trickles up. If that wealth ends up in pockets to be stored so the heirs of those wealthy families do not have to work for the next 10.000 years or so (or ever again), the economy runs out of gas.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Indigo5

i would be foolish to dispute anything you have said here.

And were I half my age, would likely take the advice on funding college. Now I am in that chapter of my life where I have to hurry to fund some sort of sunset years.

Well I suspect you and I are in the same boat. Roth and Sep IRA's allow you to sock away large sums annually that are bullet-proof to bankruptcy up to 1.2 Million. So you can afford to take some risks and put in more than you would otherwise be comfortable with. You can also add a Roth or SEP in addition to whatever 401k you might have. Also...Index funds and low management fees...everything else is simply funding wall street's retirement plans. I know Wall Street folks who have directly told me the same.

Doh !!

Record 290 Newcomers Join Forbes Billionaires List, Including Michael Jordan

a reply to: Merinda

How can they keep billions of dollars in their pockets?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: usernameconspiracy

So you aren't concerning yourself with paying the government approximately $11k each year for the privilege of working?

Nope. But your numbers are off. I think our total tax liability for 2014 was just under $8k for the wife and I. Already filed, processed and moved on with life.

a reply to: usernameconspiracy

My numbers were an estimate of standard tax of 20%.

Those with disposable income to buy products are what drives the economy.

If a company makes a product, but no one can afford it -- the company goes out of business.

The uber wealthy are shooting themselves in the foot by squeezing their customer base. It's just like robbing bricks from the foundation to build a penthouse on the top floor. Eventually the structure will become to top heavy and collapse. We are seeing this right now in the USA.

The top is getting to top heavy, and they are eroding their customer base out from underneath them. Eventually the entire thing is going to collapse, as no one will be able to continue to afford the products and services of the 1%.

Demand creates jobs. Demand for a product creates openings for wealthy people to invest and grow businesses. Wealthy people on their own, by themselves do not create jobs -- period. If there isn't a demand for a product or service, the wealthy will not move their money in a way to create jobs. It's just that simple.