New poll finds Americans think rich should be taxed more

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In a democracy said fair share would be decided by a vote of the people,

in our capitalist society it is decided by lawmakers that owe their careers to the lobbyists of the rich.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's also annoying to know that when some people go to work, they spend all week, every week working hard to put money into their families pockets. But when someone like my husband goes to work, thanks to the tax rate, he doesn't actually start working to put money in our pockets until sometime on Wednesday. Every minute he spends on Monday and Tuesday is solely for the government. Oh, and when he gets his annual bonus this year? Yeah, apparently the reward he gets for both being a damn good employee and for helping the company succeed financially (based on both metrics), is cut in about half to the government gets 50% of his reward for a successful year of work. Why?

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In a democracy said fair share would be decided by a vote of the people,

in our capitalist society it is decided by lawmakers that owe their careers to the lobbyists of the rich.

So I repeat, at what point should I stop succeeding so as to avoid being punished? I wouldn't want you to take more than I think is fair.

So how do you define fair share.

But paying more nothing is still nothing.
The rich hide their money and corporations evade tax.
Everyone defends it saying 'The corporations will leave if we make them pay, we'll all lose our jobs" and so it continues.
Yes the system is broke - or more accurately rigged - and it is this way because big business and big money rule everything.
Our politicians, our laws, our foreign policy - everything.

The game is rigged to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
Then there are those that actually defend these corporations and the muti-million/billionaires and think they're actually doing us a favor.
Wealth creators and trickle down - two of THE biggest scams ever invented.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In a democracy said fair share would be decided by a vote of the people,

in our capitalist society it is decided by lawmakers that owe their careers to the lobbyists of the rich.

But the US isn't a democracy. Its a constitutional republic. Where the rights of the individual are protected. So the "mob mentality" of the lower 99% wanting to tax the top 1% at some insane rate should not happen.

Besides....why would we trust our countrymen? Have you not seen how The People vote? I don't think I would trust the rest of America to decide how much money I need to give up each pay period.

Regardless, I am looking for a number. Just for a round number....if i make 500,000 a year....what is fair amount of income tax to pay on that?

a reply to: ketsuko

Same happened to me. My first ever annual performance bonus was taxed down by 40%.

What sucks even worse: my regular paycheck was in that amount, nd was taxed at the higher rate too.

Sure, i can get it back next year. After Uncle Sam is done with the zero interest loan we call "tax return". Or i could not pay in taxes and leave myself scrambling at years end to make payments to the IRS.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In a democracy said fair share would be decided by a vote of the people,

in our capitalist society it is decided by lawmakers that owe their careers to the lobbyists of the rich.

It also occurs to me that since my earnings are effectively my property, you are basically saying you do not believe in private property rights at all.

If you can nullify those rights by popular vote, then this ceases to be a country that respects the basic rights of the individual and has now become either a socialist or communist collective.

After all, the minute you decide through vote of the people what of mine is in effect yours, it is no longer mine even if it was something I earned.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ketsuko

Same happened to me. My first ever annual performance bonus was taxed down by 40%.

What sucks even worse: my regular paycheck was in that amount, nd was taxed at the higher rate too.

Sure, i can get it back next year. After Uncle Sam is done with the zero interest loan we call "tax return". Or i could not pay in taxes and leave myself scrambling at years end to make payments to the IRS.

This was one of the things that really pushed me towards conservatism. I worked really hard in college and managed to snag a plum job at a prestigious consulting firm. Anyway, the firm paid a signing bonus to new hires. It was like $5k which was a good amount of money for broke college student in the early 90s for a first job out of college. Anyway, I needed the money to survive on during the summer after graduation and to buy some work clothes as this was the days before business casual. I needed some suits. Anyway, moral of the story is I get the bonus and it is like $3k so they took 40% off the top. I was like WTF? I really could have used that money. This was my first real experience with the tax code. I couldn't for the life of my rationalize why the Feds deserved 40% of my bonus.

a reply to: AlaskanDad As far as percentage's go the "Rich" are paying their fair share. The problem is not everyone is paying taxes. The people at the lower income scale do not pay any taxes at all. I know this because I am one of those people that pay no tax. Yes it is taken out of my retirement from the military and my social security. But I get it all back at the end of the year.

If everyone was paying their share we would have enough money to cover all expenses. We do not need more taxes as the Democrats always want. We just need a Fair Tax.

Divide and conquer. We argue about who should pay more taxes while the sociopaths in power rob us all blind.

Just end all taxes on earned income. Whatever someone earns by the sweat off their brow is theirs to keep. All of it. Every penny. That would stop this class warfare in a flash. It would also provide a huge boost to the economy as those tax dollars are spent by the consumer -- not the govt -- in the spirit of a true free market, where the consumer decides where their dollars are spent -- not the govt.

Then set a flat tax on all corporate and unearned income (capital gains); no deductions, no credits, no loopholes. Eliminate the need for expensive accountants to hide dollars from the tax man and for expensive lobbyists to buy politicians and legislation. Return regulatory agencies to maintaining safety -- not restrictive and repressive licensing, permits, and this, that and the other thing to protect some and destroy others. Give corporations the level playing field they need to maintain and grow their business here, using local legal labor, keeping their operations and their money here.

Finally, forgive any and all tax debts on earned income, ending any and all IRS involvement with earned income and those earning it, re-focusing the IRS' purpose and collection efforts on corporate and unearned income scofflaws.

No one should have to pay taxes on their blood, sweat and tears.

Taxes, blah, blah. Who cares? Who spends more time than it takes to file each year, thinking about taxes? I tell you what I'll do, since I'm a great guy. Whoever is pulling in, say $120k a year and is unhappy with their tax situation, I'll swap salaries with you. I'll gladly pay the higher rate. Who cares?

It's a win-win, really. I mean you'll only make my lowly $54k federal salary, but you'll pay less in taxes. Me? I'll be happy with doubling my pay and I'll think about taxes the same amount as I did before. Almost never.

a reply to: usernameconspiracy

So you aren't concerning yourself with paying the government approximately $11k each year for the privilege of working?

The problem that I have with this is Rich is not defined and pay more is not defined

Who is rich? What percentage should they pay?

Usually what happens when the government wants more money is they say they are going to tax the rich and low and behold families that make 50K per year are suddenly defined as rich and have their taxes raised.

I would like to see specific numbers, not vague notions

a reply to: AlaskanDad

This concept has been tried before, it always fails:

"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have rejoiced in their loss of freedom who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious."

~ Marcus Cicero

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

In a democracy said fair share would be decided by a vote of the people,

in our capitalist society it is decided by lawmakers that owe their careers to the lobbyists of the rich.

Huh? We have not had a free-market, Capitalist society or economic structure in over 100 years.

I wonder what would happen if we went from 50% of the population paying various tax rates, to 100% of the population paying 10%. I also have to wonder, if some states can get on without having an income tax, why can't all states?

I'd say that it would be a miraculous thing to see.

Abolish the IRS and implement a 10% flat tax with absolutely no loop holes. Win/Win

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: Edumakated

Right now there are so many different types of taxes, that paying taxes takes food off the tables of the less fortunate. When the rich feel that type of hurt from paying their taxes they will have reason to complain, anything less is just whining!

And this is what it all comes down to. You feel pain, so you want others to, as well. The progressive elite have convinced you that causing pain to the rich will make things better for you.

So, tell us, at what income level should someone be considered "rich" enough to be punished? How much of that person's "riches" should be stolen from him/her? Tell us, what is "fair?"

You do realize, regardless of what you earn, there is someone who earns less and believes you should be punished, as well. What if your "democracy" decides what you earn is the threshold?

To those who like to use the word "hoarding" in the perjorative, have you stopped to think that their savings is in investments with companies which produce the goods you consume and the services you use; like the computer you are using to type your disparaging comments, the telecom providing the internet service, the advertisers that fund ATS, etc?

The US government finds Americans think rich, should be taxed more.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Taxing one group more is nothing but class warfare.

How about we don't do a thing with Taxes for a year or two, while we stop spending.

Yes...Taking from one group IS class warfare.

And that is what has been occurring to an ever increasing degree over the past 10-15 years.

Imagine the economy as playing field...but now imagine it not level...aka..a rigged roulette game.

Some little guys will win, some big guys will get richer...but as long as the field is not level...the more money that passes through the economy...the richer the rich will get and the poorer the poor will get. The Casino is rigged to make the rich richer.

That is just the hard reality of it. It is why we are accelerating toward Old World Classes...The Peasant Class and the Wealthiest...absent a middle class.

That is why the worlds most successful investor and one of the top 3 richest people on planet earth says..
"`There’s been class warfare for the last 20 years, and my class has won"

As money circulates, the tax system dramatically rewards the wealthy for PARKING their money vs. investing it in productive or job creating activities. I don't blame the wealthy for the state of things. They have successfully lobbied (bought) policy in the USA that allows them to grow their fortunes with tiny risk...and the tax code rewards them to not take those risks and invest in the economy at large.

As long as the money keeps flowing in the current rigged system it will pool in the hands of the top 5%...then the top 2%...then the top 1% etc. and the middle class will continue to slide toward poverty.

This is not a political debate in as much as the numbers indisputably show this clear trend.

What to do about it? I don't know...CHANGING the tax code to encourage broader investment in growth is one strategy...Increasing taxes on the wealthy? Maybe, but they have been successful in creating all the loop-holes necessary to avoid those increases thus far. Closing loop-holes? Maybe...Kind of Whack-a-mole...Safety nets are a temporary measure....and the right wing can call food stamp recipients lazy and unwilling to work only up until 75% of the population needs them to survive. Americans rich and poor are willing to work and work hard. Most under the poverty level work two jobs. We have a systematic problem.

But the bottom line is that our children and their children are in trouble with the direction income distribution is rapidly sliding. It will be a world of the 1% and the peasants (no middle class)...which almost always results in a long period of suffering for 90% of the population followed by revolutions that don't turn out well for the wealthy.

We need to fix the system so that anyone that works hard can survive well...and for an ever growing swath of Americans that is not possible.

a reply to: Ceeker63

I don't really see the rich paying their fair share. The top 10% hold over 80% of the wealth, but only pay 64% of the taxes. Don't really Think that's terribly equal.