You Are the Sex You Were Born!

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Sex/gender is a part of sexuality which is a part of biology and biology is a part of science.

Will a straight man attracted to the female body want to be with a "woman" who looks like a man, has no breasts, and has a penis? No, because a straight man would recognize that as a male's body and won't attracted.

So yes, in terms of sexuality (which is a study of science) a person with male hormones and male sex organs is a male.

a reply to: arpgme

So the person who changes has to asses living in the wrong body vs the chances of finding a partner who accepts the change.

So whats the issue if thats their decision?

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

If they identify as said sex and have the characteristics of said sex then for me that's quite sufficient. I have no need to break down each molecule of their being in an effort to find remnants of the other sex in some attempt to undermine their lives.

identity is a choice and therefore devoid of fact.

You're clearly unfamiliar with these conditions. You should read the thread.

And your point? I am not saying that anything in your first paragraph is incorrect. In fact, it eludes to the fact that if you "breakdown the molecules" you would discover their true sex. I'm not arguing that and I'm not arguing that they should be accepted for what they are. I'm just saying that calling yourself a female does not make you one.

Are you actually confused about my reasoning or just trying to argue?

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Sex/gender is a part of sexuality which is a part of biology and biology is a part of science.

Will a straight man attracted to the female body want to be with a "woman" who looks like a man, has no breasts, and has a penis? No, because a straight man would recognize that as a male's body and won't attracted.

So yes, in terms of sexuality (which is a study of science) a person with male hormones and male sex organs is a male.

Not if they have been artificially provided. They are simply a disguise.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

If they identify as said sex and have the characteristics of said sex then for me that's quite sufficient. I have no need to break down each molecule of their being in an effort to find remnants of the other sex in some attempt to undermine their lives.

identity is a choice and therefore devoid of fact.

You're clearly unfamiliar with these conditions. You should read the thread.

I'm just saying that calling yourself a female does not make you one.

& this offends you deeply for what reason exactly? Does it really matter if someone else thinks of themselves as a man or woman?

Does anything really matter?

(hint: no)

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

If they identify as said sex and have the characteristics of said sex then for me that's quite sufficient. I have no need to break down each molecule of their being in an effort to find remnants of the other sex in some attempt to undermine their lives.

identity is a choice and therefore devoid of fact.

You're clearly unfamiliar with these conditions. You should read the thread.

I'm just saying that calling yourself a female does not make you one.

& this offends you deeply for what reason exactly? Does it really matter if someone else thinks of themselves as a man or woman?

Does anything really matter?

(hint: no)

It doesn't offend me. And definitely not deeply. If you read my OP you would have seen my words which said...

"First...this is not meant as an insult to anyone and I have nothing against transgender people. I must have read or heard this same type of statement ten times in the past week for some reason...so...please stop saying "I'm a woman now" or "I'm a man now". Sorry, but you are not."

And no...it doesn't matter until I have to hear it over and over again. It annoyed me hearing something so delusional and not factual about ten times over seven days. Big difference between a falsehood being "annoying" when heard ten times as compared to YOUR incorrect statement of "deeply offended". Stop trying to be insulting or picking a fight...you don't do it well.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Are you actually confused about my reasoning or just trying to argue?

You calling theses conditions a choice to begin with demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the matter and thus precludes my interest in a discussion with you. As it seems clear you have no interest in addressing that aspect of your position. Hence why you completely ignored those contributions from other members. You claiming it's a choice, doesn't negate professionals in the health sciences have a very different understanding of these conditions.

That would need to be addressed before I'd have interest in exploring this "breaking down the molecules" argument.

In the interim you keep dressing those cats with dog skin.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Sex/gender is a part of sexuality which is a part of biology and biology is a part of science.

Will a straight man attracted to the female body want to be with a "woman" who looks like a man, has no breasts, and has a penis? No, because a straight man would recognize that as a male's body and won't attracted.

So yes, in terms of sexuality (which is a study of science) a person with male hormones and male sex organs is a male.

Not if they have been artificially provided. They are simply a disguise.

Your opinion. I didn't see anything about "non-artificially provided" in the definition of man or woman.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Are you actually confused about my reasoning or just trying to argue?

You calling theses conditions a choice to begin with demonstrates your lack of knowledge on the matter and thus precludes my interest in a discussion with you. As it seems clear you have no interest in addressing that aspect of your position. Hence why you completely ignored those contributions from other members. You claiming it's a choice, doesn't negate professionals in the health sciences have a very different understanding of these conditions.

That would need to be addressed before I'd have interest in exploring this "breaking down the molecules" argument.

In the interim you keep dressing those cats with dog skin.

Whom an individual is attracted to or what gender they believe they should be is not a choice. "Changing" your sex via an operation, etc. is a choice. Does that clear it up?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

It's more accurately what sex they feel they already are, but their current body doesn't reflect it. That internal struggle they were predisposed to. The body doesn't match the identity. And no my use of the word feel doesn't undermine it at all. You feel attracted to the opposite sex, right? Yet there is nothing trivial about the potency of that feeling. It's the reality of how you experience the world. Intrinsic to who you are.

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones." wiki: Gender Identity Disorder

The DSM-5 officially recognizes this condition and calls it Gender Dysphoria.

"The current medical approach to treatment for persons diagnosed with gender identity disorder is to support the individual in physically modifying the body to better match the psychological gender identity. This approach is based on the concept that their experience is based in a medical problem correctable by various forms of medical intervention."
Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender-Nonconforming People, Version 7

Of course any action taken to change ones body is a choice. Unless held at gunpoint. There are medical procedures available to them. I see no reason they shouldn't pursue those if they think it will help them.

Do you wish to respond to this or move onto the "breaking down the molecules" argument?

OP, you are worrying about semantics. I know what you are saying, that no outside fiddling can make you into something else than what you were born...apparently.

I say, it can. From a Neuroscientific point of view, hormones are the ones in charge. Literally everything you do and feel and think is influenced by hormones [and other neurotransmitters]. It is not influenced by 'things' such as penises or breasts.

Let that sink in.

If you have breasts [and some men do, read up on it], they feel very ashamed. Why? Because they are not women yet they are growing breasts. These are ususally removed surgically.

But, OP said if you are born a certain way that is what you are?

So if a guy with breasts calls himself a man, he is LYING according to OP. He should call himself a Heshe or they are LYING ba5tards. Even if they feel 100% male, they are not correctly born and hence shouldn't tell us how they feel inside but should name what is there. Heshe. Also just chopping breasts of will not make them male...[even though they are].

Back to hormones. Hormons have 100% grip on you, your body and your feelings. Your genitals have 0% influence on anything, because they are just meat extensions.
So if I feel like a woman inside and my hormones and neurotransmitters are telling me that I am a woman, then it bloody doesn't matter what chromosomes I have as they are just building-plans that do not take hormones into account.

So, forget your blooming chromosomes. They are have no other job than to build what is given to them. Hail to the hormones and neurotransmitters which are what makes your meat-suit into a human being.

Chop off some bits or add some, so it fits with who your SOUL really is, does make you into what you desire to be!

May I be so bold and say" "Sod the chromosomes", they've done their bit and they were wrong.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

It's more accurately what sex they feel they already are, but their current body doesn't reflect it. That internal struggle they were predisposed to. The body doesn't match the identity. And no my use of the word feel doesn't undermine it at all. You feel attracted to the opposite sex, right? Yet there is nothing trivial about the potency of that feeling. It's the reality of how you experience the world. Intrinsic to who you are.

"Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones." wiki: Gender Identity Disorder

The DSM-5 officially recognizes this condition and calls it Gender Dysphoria.

"The current medical approach to treatment for persons diagnosed with gender identity disorder is to support the individual in physically modifying the body to better match the psychological gender identity. This approach is based on the concept that their experience is based in a medical problem correctable by various forms of medical intervention."
Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender-Nonconforming People, Version 7

Of course any action taken to change ones body is a choice. Unless held at gunpoint. There are medical procedures available to them. I see no reason they shouldn't pursue those if they think it will help them.

Do you wish to respond to this or move onto the "breaking down the molecules" argument?

Apparently you disagree. No problem...happens all the time.

originally posted by: Hecate666
OP, you are worrying about semantics. I know what you are saying, that no outside fiddling can make you into something else than what you were born...apparently.

I say, it can. From a Neuroscientific point of view, hormones are the ones in charge. Literally everything you do and feel and think is influenced by hormones [and other neurotransmitters]. It is not influenced by 'things' such as penises or breasts.

Let that sink in.

If you have breasts [and some men do, read up on it], they feel very ashamed. Why? Because they are not women yet they are growing breasts. These are ususally removed surgically.

But, OP said if you are born a certain way that is what you are?

So if a guy with breasts calls himself a man, he is LYING according to OP. He should call himself a Heshe or they are LYING ba5tards. Even if they feel 100% male, they are not correctly born and hence shouldn't tell us how they feel inside but should name what is there. Heshe. Also just chopping breasts of will not make them male...[even though they are].

Back to hormones. Hormons have 100% grip on you, your body and your feelings. Your genitals have 0% influence on anything, because they are just meat extensions.
So if I feel like a woman inside and my hormones and neurotransmitters are telling me that I am a woman, then it bloody doesn't matter what chromosomes I have as they are just building-plans that do not take hormones into account.

So, forget your blooming chromosomes. They are have no other job than to build what is given to them. Hail to the hormones and neurotransmitters which are what makes your meat-suit into a human being.

Chop off some bits or add some, so it fits with who your SOUL really is, does make you into what you desire to be!

May I be so bold and say" "Sod the chromosomes", they've done their bit and they were wrong.

I believe my OP said it simply...if you are born male or born female, a sex change operation doesn't change what you are, male or female. If you disagree...fine. Are you saying that a male can change into a female by means of an operation? An actual female?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

And as much as you seem to dislike the facts, your quote really says it all:

...modifying the body to better match the psychological gender identity.

It doesn't say change them from a male to a female.

And while this is only Wikipedia...

Sex reassignment surgery is a term for the surgical procedures by which a transgender person's physical appearance and function of their existing sexual characteristics are altered to resemble that of their identified sex. It is part of a treatment for gender identity disorder/gender dysphoria in transsexual and transgender people.

If you are still confused...this may help. Determining Sex

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

If they identify as said sex and have the characteristics of said sex then for me that's quite sufficient. I have no need to break down each molecule of their being in an effort to find remnants of the other sex in some attempt to undermine their lives.

identity is a choice and therefore devoid of fact.

You're clearly unfamiliar with these conditions. You should read the thread.

I'm just saying that calling yourself a female does not make you one.

& this offends you deeply for what reason exactly? Does it really matter if someone else thinks of themselves as a man or woman?

Does anything really matter?

(hint: no)

It doesn't offend me. And definitely not deeply. If you read my OP you would have seen my words which said...

"First...this is not meant as an insult to anyone and I have nothing against transgender people. I must have read or heard this same type of statement ten times in the past week for some reason...so...please stop saying "I'm a woman now" or "I'm a man now". Sorry, but you are not."

And no...it doesn't matter until I have to hear it over and over again. It annoyed me hearing something so delusional and not factual about ten times over seven days. Big difference between a falsehood being "annoying" when heard ten times as compared to YOUR incorrect statement of "deeply offended". Stop trying to be insulting or picking a fight...you don't do it well.

You think someone else's opinion of themself makes them delusional; the expression of this opinion annoys you & in your mind it is wrong.

LoL, tomato/tomahto.

Carry on "not being offended", Mr. Condescending. The fact you care so much about something so benign & meaningless makes me sad for you. Hell, gay marriage probably affects your life more than someone else's sex change & how they define their own phsyiology. It annoys you? Why in the world would something like that annoy you. Something deep inside you is taking offense at something.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

If they identify as said sex and have the characteristics of said sex then for me that's quite sufficient. I have no need to break down each molecule of their being in an effort to find remnants of the other sex in some attempt to undermine their lives.

identity is a choice and therefore devoid of fact.

You're clearly unfamiliar with these conditions. You should read the thread.

I'm just saying that calling yourself a female does not make you one.

& this offends you deeply for what reason exactly? Does it really matter if someone else thinks of themselves as a man or woman?

Does anything really matter?

(hint: no)

It doesn't offend me. And definitely not deeply. If you read my OP you would have seen my words which said...

"First...this is not meant as an insult to anyone and I have nothing against transgender people. I must have read or heard this same type of statement ten times in the past week for some reason...so...please stop saying "I'm a woman now" or "I'm a man now". Sorry, but you are not."

And no...it doesn't matter until I have to hear it over and over again. It annoyed me hearing something so delusional and not factual about ten times over seven days. Big difference between a falsehood being "annoying" when heard ten times as compared to YOUR incorrect statement of "deeply offended". Stop trying to be insulting or picking a fight...you don't do it well.

You think someone else's opinion of themself makes them delusional; the expression of this opinion annoys you & in your mind it is wrong.

LoL, tomato/tomahto.

Carry on "not being offended", Mr. Condescending. The fact you care so much about something so benign & meaningless makes me sad for you. Hell, gay marriage probably affects your life more than someone else's sex change & how they define their own phsyiology. It annoys you? Why in the world would something like that annoy you. Something deep inside you is taking offense at something.

Doesn't bother me a bit smart-ass, until it is stuffed in my face. Where it doesn't belong and isn't welcome. When something is forced upon me, you are DAMN right that I have a right to protest having it forced upon me. Disagree with that too? I wouldn't be surprised.

And just in case that statement confuses you, re-read the OP.

I'm a woman now.