Alright, Im convinced.

After doing a bit of Searching, I have found another piece of the puzzle: Bilderbergs.

I have long suspected many forces at play in the shadowy world of govornment. I never heard of the Bilderbergs before, but I looked into it, and Id say there up there with Zionism as a pretty nasty group of slags twisting the world into hell.

Thanks, Nans, for the links.

Couldn't you have just attached this onto a bilderbergs post instead of starting a new one?

I could have. But I hope it will open up a discussion: Bilderbergs for dummies and such.

I've also done a great deal of research into the Zionist conspiracy, in the past (particularly with regard to their control of the mass media). They definitely fit into the organizational structure of the illuminati- some of them are actually bilderbergs (such as henry kissinger, for example). You see, most people don't go into the whole Zionist conspiracy because it is morally-associated with the holocaust. However, I don't think its possible to get an accurate picture of the complexity of this agenda WITHOUT considering the zionists and the role that they serve for the agenda.

Youre right, MK.

The Zionists use the holocaust anytime someone dares criticize Israeli extermination practices. Criticize them, and youre suddenly an anti semite.

The Zionists, I think, even helped to push the holocaust along. The victims were lower eschelon Jews. Zionists, like any shadow entity, do not balk at sacrificing thier own people if it will further thier long term goals.

I noticed Kissinger in amongst them. Notice also that the owners of the mass media giants are pretty much all Zionist Jews and pro zionist gentiles.

I think that many of these groups, Illuminati, Masons, Bilderbergs, and Zionists all overlap one another, some being memebers of more than one, if not all.

Well a bunch of opinions yet no real research. Please show me where the Bilderburgers actually run ANYTHING.

And your claims of the Zionists, bad...just read up on your history

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
After doing a bit of Searching, I have found another piece of the puzzle: Bilderbergs.

Check out also the Knights of Malta.

Doing a google search for Knights of Malta will give you their history. Then do a search for Knights of Malta Conspiracy.

And your claims of the Zionists, bad...just read up on your history

I have. And have seen much evidence of it myself.

Perhaps you need to read, its right in front of you.

And dont take my word for it. read the works of Ben friedman and Israel Shahek for starters, two Jews who turned against Zionism and spent thier lives in oppositon to it, spending much time informing the public about its relaity.

Henry Ford believed it was serious enough as well.

Well a bunch of opinions yet no real research. Please show me where the Bilderburgers actually run ANYTHING.

The Bilderbergs run practically EVERYTHING, and we have done an extensive amount of research. Here you go, a list of Bilderberg members who attended this year's meeting. Note- I've enclosed the link, but also enclosed the requested information in this post for ease of reading. The list is extremely long, but I'm sure you expected that!

Special thanks to NANS for taking pictures of them & getting the list for us!

Link: www.abovetopsecret.com...

2003 Participant list :
BILDERBERG MEETINGS
Versailles, France, 15-18th May 2003
CURRENT LIST OF PARTICIPANTS


B - Honorary Chairman - Davignon, Etienne - Vice-Chairman, Societe Generale de Belgique

GB - Honorary Secretary General - Taylor. J Martin - Chairman WH Smith PLC; International advisor, Goldman Sachs International


F - Adler, Alexandre - Editorial counsel, Le Figaro

I - Ambrosetti, Alfredo - Chairman Ambrosetti Group

TR - Babacan, Ali - Minister of Economic Affairs

GR - Bakoyannis, Dora - Mayor of Athens

GB - Balls, Edward - Chief Economic Advisor to the Treasury

P - Balsem�o, Francisco Pinto - Professor of Communication Science, New University, Lisbon; Chairman and CEO, IMPRESA, S.G.P.S.; Former Prime Minister

P - Barroso, Jos� M. Dur�o - Prime Minister

TR - Bayar, Mehmet A. - Deputy Chairman of DYP (True Path Party)

A - Becker, Erich - Chairman of the Managing Board and CEO, VA Technologie AG

I - Bendetti, Rodolfo de - Managing Director CIR S.p.A.

I - Bernab�, Franco - Chairman Franco Bernabe & C. S.p.A.

F - Beytout, Nicolas - Editor-in-Chief, Les Echos

KW - Bishara, Ahmad E. - Secretary General of Kuwait's liberal National Democratic Party

CDN - Black, Conrad M. - Chairman, Telegraph Group Limited

INT - Bolkestein, Frits - Internal Markets Commissioner, European Commission

USA - Bolton, John R. - Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security

F - Bon, Michel - Honorary Chairman, France Telecom

F - Brugui�re, Jean-Louis - First Vice President, Justice Department

D - Burda, Hubert - Publisher and CEO, Hubert Burda Media Holding GmbH & Co.

F - Camus, Phillipe - CEO, European Aeronautics Defence and Space company European Aeronautics Defence and Space company (EADS)

INT - Cary, Anthony J. - Head of Christopher Patten's cabinet, EU. [Patten is European Commissioner for Enlargement]

F - Castries, Henri de - Chairman of the Board, AXA

E - Cebri�n, Juan Luis - CEO, PRISA

B - Claes, Willy - Minister of State [Willy Claes is not now a Belgian Minister but former Belgian Foreign Minister and former Secretary General of NATO 1994-1995 - now disgraced - TG]

GB - Clarke, Kenneth - Member of Parliament, [former Chancellor of the Exchequer]

USA - Collins, Timothy C. - Senior Managing Director and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings LLC

F - Collomb, Bertrand - Chairman and CEO, Lafarge

F - Cop�, Jean-Fran�ois - Secretary of State in charge of relations with Parliament; Government Spokesman

USA - Corzine, Jon S. - Senator (D, New Jersey)

S - Dahlb�f*ck, Claes - Chairman, Investor AB

GR - David, George A. - Chairman of the Board, Coca-Cola H.B.C. S.A.

USA - Donilon, Thomas E. - Executive Vice President, Fannie Mae

I - Draghi, Mario - Vice-Chairman and Managing Director, Goldman Sachs International

DK - Eldrup, Anders - CEO, Danish Oil and Gas Corporation

USA - Feldstein, Martin S. - President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research

CDN - Fell, Anthony S. - Chairman, RBC Dominion Securities Inc.

USA - Friedman, Thomas L. - Foreign Affairs Columnist, The New York Times

F - Gergorin, Jean-Luis - Executive Vice President, Strategic Coordination, European Aeronautics Defence and Space company (EADS)

USA - Gigot, Paul A. - Editorial page editor, The Wall Street Journal

F - Giscard d'Estaing, Val�ry - French President 1974-81; Chairman of the Convention on the Future of Europe

N - Gjedrem, Svein - Governor, Central Bank of Norway

IRL - Gleeson, Dermot - Chairman designate, Allied Irish Banks, p.l.c.

GB - Gould, Philip - Public Relations Adviser to Prime Minister Blair

USA - Haass, Richard N. - Director, Office of Policy Planning Staff, State Department

NL - Halberstadt, Victor - Professor of Economics, Leiden University; Former honorary Secretary General of Bilderberg Meetings

CDN - Harper, Stephen - Leader of the Opposition

USA - Hertog, Roger - Vice-Chairman, Alliance Capital Management

NL - Hoop Scheffer, Jaap G. de - Minister for Foreign Affairs

USA - Hubbard, Allan B. - President, E&A Industries

USA - Hubbard, R. Glenn - Russell L. Carson Professor of Economics and Finance, Columbia University

USA - Johnson, James A. - Vice Chairman, Perseus L.L.C.

USA - Jordan, Jr., Vernon E. - Senior Managing Director, Lazard Freres & Co. L.L.C.

CH - Kielholz, Walter B. - Former Chairman of the Board, Credit Suisse; Executive Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors, Swiss Re

GB - King, Mervyn A. - Deputy Governor, Bank of England

USA - Kissinger, Henry A. - Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.; Member, Defense Policy Board; Member J.P. Morgan International Council

FIN - Kivinen, Olli - Senior Editor & Columnist, Helsingin Sanomat

NL - Kok, Wim - Former Prime Minister

D - Kopper, Hilmar - Former Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutsche Bank AG

USA - Kravis, Henry R. - Founding Partner, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.

USA - Kravis, Marie-Jose� - Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.

INT - Lamy, Pascal - Trade Commissioner, European Commission

F - Lellouche, Pierre - Vice Chairman, NATO Parliamentary Assembly

F - L�vy-Lang, Andr� - Former Chairman, Paribas

S - Lindh, Anna - Minister for Foreign Affairs

FIN - Lipponen, Paavo - Former Prime Minister; Speaker of the Parliament

DK - Lykketoft, Mogens - Chairman, Social Democrat Party

CDN - MacMillan, Margaret O. - Provost, Trinity College, University of Toronto

RUS - Margelov, Mikhail V. - Chairman, Committee for Foreign Affairs, Council of Federation

F - Montbrial, Thierry de - President, French Institute of International Relations (IFRI)

INT - Monti, Mario - Competition Commissioner, European Commission

USA - Mundie, Craig J. - Chief Technical Officer, Advanced Strategies and Policy, Microsoft Corporation

N - Myklebust, Egil - Chairman, Norsk Hydro ASA

D - Naas, Matthias - Deputy Editor, Die Zeit

NL - Netherlands, H.M. the Queen of the [Queen Beatrix - Royal Dutch Shell]

PL - Olechowski, Andrzej - Leader, Civic Platform

FIN - Ollila, Jorma - Chairman of the Board and CEO, Nokia Corporation

INT - Padoa-Schioppa, Thomasso - Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank

I - Panara, Marco - Journalist, La Republica

I - Passera, Corrado - Managing Director, Banca IntesaBCI

USA - Perkovich, George - Vice President for Studies, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

USA - Perle, Richard N. - Member, Defense Policy Board ; Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute (AEI) for Public Policy Research; member Project for a New American Century (PNAC)

B - Philippe, H.R.H. Prince - Crown Prince of Belgium

I - Poli, Roberto - Chairman, Eni S.p.A.

F - Ranque, Denis - Chairman and CEO, Thales Aerospace and Defence

DK - Rasmussen, Anders Fogh - Prime Minister

CDN - Reisman, Heather - President and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.

F - Riboud, Franck - Chairman and CEO, Danone Foods

CH - Ringier, Michael - CEO, Ringier AG

USA - Rockefeller, David - Member, J.P. Morgan International Council

P - Rodrigues, Eduardo Ferro - Leader of the Socialist Party; Member of Parliament

E - Rodriguez Inciarte, Matias - Executive Vice Chairman, Banco Santander Central Hispano

F - Roy, Olivier - Senior Researcher, CNRS

USA - Ruggie, John - Director, Center for Business and Government, Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University

NL - Ruys, Anthony - Chairman of the Board, Heineken N.V.

TR - Sanberk, �zdem - Director, Turkish Economic and Social Studies Foundation

I - Scaroni, Paolo - Managing Director, Enel S.p.A.

D - Sch�uble, Wolfgang - Deputy Parliamentary Leader, CDU/CSU Group

D - Schily, Otto - Minister of the Interior

A - Scholten, Rudolf - Member of the Board of Executive Directors, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG

D - Schrempp, Jurgen E - Chairman of the Board of Management, Daimler Chrysler AG

INT - Schwab, Klaus - President, World Economic Forum

DK - Seidenfaden, Toger - Editor in Chief, Politiken

RUS - Shevtsova, Lilia - Senior Associate, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

E - Spain, H.M. the Queen of [King Juan Carlos (see photo) arrived with the queen, but he is not on this list]

USA - Steinberg, James B. - Vice President and Director, Foreign Policy Studies Program, The Brookings Institution

CDN - Steyn, Mark - Journalist for various publications

IRL - Sutherland, Peter D. - Chairman and Managing Director, Goldman Sachs International; Chairman, BP Amoco

USA - Thornton, John L. - President and CEO, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

F - Trichet, Jean Claude - Governor, Banque de France

GR - Tsoukalis, Loukas - Professor, University of Athens; President Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy

A - Trumpel-Gugerell, Gertrude - Vice Governor, Central Bank of Austria

CH - Vasella, Daniel L. - Chairman and CEO, Novartis AG

NL - Veer, Jeroen van der - President, Royal Dutch Petroleum Company; Vice Chairman of the Committee of Managing Directors of Royal Dutch/Shell Group of Companies

F - Villin, Philippe - Vice Chairman, Lehman Brothers Europe

NL - Vries, Klaas de - Member of Parliament (Labour); Former Minister of the Interior

FIN - Whalroos, Bj�rn - President and CEO, Sampo plc.

S - Wallenberg, Jacob - Chairman of the Board, Skandinavivska Enskilda Banken

GB - Williams, Gareth - Leader of the House of Lords

GB - Wolf, Martin H. - Associate Editor/Economics Commentator, The Financial Times

USA/INT - Wolfensohn, James D. - President, The World Bank

USA - Wolfowitz, Paul - Deputy Secretary of Defense, US Department of Defense

USA - Zakaria, Fareed - Editor, Newsweek International

USA - Zoellick, Robert - Principal Trade Adviser to the President

D - Zumwinkel, Klaus - Chairman, Deutsche Post Worldnet AG


Rapporteurs
GB - Micklethwait, R. John - United States Editor, The Economist

GB - Rachman, Gideon - Brussels Correspondent, The Economist


____________________-

Here is an incomplete list of Bilderberg occupations in the US:

-Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security

-Senior Managing Director and CEO, Ripplewood Holdings LLC.
"Ripplewood Holdings is making waves in the world of private equity investment. The firm manages more than $2.5 billion in capital, and invests in automotive retail, food manufacturing, industrial manufacturing, banking, entertainment, and technology. Ripplewood entered the chemical industry when it bought Kraton, the polymers business of Shell Chemicals (part of Shell Oil). In an effort to expand operations in Japan, the company bought Shinsei Bank (formerly Long-Term Credit Bank of Japan) and ailing recording label Nippon Columbia. Founder and CEO Timothy C. Collins' zeal for buying iconic Japan companies has elicited the wrath of Japanese industrialists fearful of foreign ownership."

Link: www.hoovers.com...


-Senator (D, New Jersey)

-Executive Vice President, Fannie Mae

-President and CEO, National Bureau of Economic Research.
"The NBER is committed to undertaking and disseminating unbiased economic research among public policymakers, business professionals, and the academic community......[and] The NBER is the nation's leading nonprofit economic research organization. Twelve of the 31 American Nobel Prize winners in Economics and three of the past Chairmen of the President's Council of Economic Advisers have been researchers at the NBER."

Link: www.nber.org...

-Foreign Affairs Columnist, The New York Times

- Editorial page editor, The Wall Street Journal

-Director, Office of Policy Planning Staff, State Department:
"Richard Haass, Director of the Policy Planning Staff, addressed "Planning Policy in Today's World" at the Kennan Institute 2003 Annual Dinner."
Link: www.state.gov...

-Vice-Chairman, Alliance Capital Management:
"At Alliance Capital, we're proud to provide a wide range of investment management services to a diverse group of investors worldwide, including institutional clients, high-net-worth individuals and mutual fund investors."
Link: www.alliancecapital.com...

-President, E&A Industries:
"EA Industries, Inc. operates in one business line - contract manufacturing of electronic products and systems. The company provides contract manufacturing services to customers and industrial companies ranging from the production of printed circuit boards to the complete procurement, production, test and delivery of entire electronic products and systems."
Link: www.business.com...

-Russell L. Carson Professor of Economics and Finance, Columbia University

-Vice Chairman, Perseus L.L.C.:
"Perseus generally invests in companies in which it can participate in the company's strategic planning, operations and development and thereby add significant value to the investment. In particular, Perseus invests in companies that have the strategic characteristics described more fully below, i.e., proprietary intellectual property, powerful brands, unique content or a highly skilled work force."
Link: 207.19.194.179...

-Senior Managing Director, Lazard Freres & Co. L.L.C.:
"Lazard is organized into four major business areas: Investment Banking, Asset Management, Capital Markets and Alternative Investments."
Link: www.lazard.com...

-Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
"Kissinger Offers AS2 Capability for Compliance with Wal-Mart and Other Retailers"
Link: www.kissingerassoc.com...

-Member, Defense Policy Board:
"Even the mainstream media is beginning to observe that the Defense Policy Board has become a conduit of neoconservative influence into the Pentagon and White House. As such, this board of non-elected shady characters is exerting a significant influence on the shaping of U.S. foreign policy."
Link: www.cooperativeresearch.org...

-Member J.P. Morgan International Council

Well I'm not convinced lol

Thanks MKULTRA, when I had given up hope you actually came through with something intelligable.

Very good work it seems.

However where I lie unconvinced is that these guys actually affect in a large way, policies...I suppose with a list like that when they get together it wouldn't be impossible for small changes here and there to be done.

But I think when it steps outside of favoring them, that there is little effect.

However if you could find a hard core example of where the Bilderbergers met, decided on some policy, and then that policy was enacted or changed wherever.

Then you'd have a definate nail in the coffin

Now if you do have such a nail (because your list is extensive, bravo) it would be nice if you'd point out specific where policy changes are occuring.

I do see some things going on, like Perseus, but I don't really fear what they do, because there are stronger powers at work against anyone who would attempt such "mastery" over our spirit and lives

People here are too quick to stop wondering or thinking more into the situation.

Don't you see the contradictions???

Henry Ford.

He is a perfect example.

He is a man who hated Jews.

And this person above agrees with him because of the so-called Zionists.

Well, look here buddy.

I am a Zionist. So is Yasser Arafat.

Anyone with roots in the lands of Zion are considered Zionists. Yet today that is not the case.

Today, Zionism means Jewish Militant Fanatical Hatred.

Well that is exactly what the SIONISTS want you to believe. People must understand that the world is being deceived. The evil world of the evil pawns is what I like to call the underground. The underground is where Satan rules. For that is the first underground, and it will be the last.

One day that ground will be bathed by the light, and cast from the darkness forever. God willing.



Abraham

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

However where I lie unconvinced is that these guys actually affect in a large way, policies

as reported in reuters(which is owned by the a bilderbergers btw)

Invited as speakers, Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were groomed at Bilderberg meetings before rising to fame as U.S. President and British Prime Minister respectively.

www.freepressinternational.com...



Don't dogs get groomed? I guess slaves do to...Groomed by european banksters, and royalty, if that surprizes you, wait till you find out who ownz the federal reserve...


However there are much bigger players then those that attend bilderberg meetings whom have meetings which are shrouded in much more secrecy, members of the CFR, Trilateral Commision and Bilderberger are illuminati frontman which is why this meeting can't be so secret, these people are all heads of corporations, media, politics hence if they all disapear for a week to attend the bilderberg meeting people in the general populous are going to know about. These people need to know what the gameplan is hence they are given their scripts, let in on the illuminati's diabolical plans for our planet which you can watch like a holly-wood movie everyday on CNN. These are the same types of people that will attend bohemian grove, heads of media, entertainment, education, politics, ect all illuminati frontman, once again there is much more important 'gatherings'(ritual sites) shrouded in much more secrecy for the bigger players. There's a pyramid of power it's all compartmentalized(as is everything in our society part of how they keep control), the players operate on a need to know basis it's a very dog eat dog nasty world in their world. If you want to know of some of the bigger players, research the 13 illuminati bloodlines(google it for fritz's book and he has a vid for d/l 2!)


[Edited on 6-6-2003 by MoBXsiNN]

Thanks MKULTRA, when I had given up hope you actually came through with something intelligable.

Don't you mean, "intelligible"?

www.yourdictionary.com...

However if you could find a hard core example of where the Bilderbergers met, decided on some policy, and then that policy was enacted or changed wherever.

I'd love to be able to show you this nail, however I'm not a member, I have not attended the meetings, and I can't seem to find any minutes online. Wonder why- oh yeah, secret society. Shucks. Seems like the perfect cop-out, doesn't it? You could see it that way.

Look at the names on the list, and look at the companies they are affiliated with. The results will be more meaningful to you, if you find it yourselves and do the research. I myself was an enormous skeptic of the power that the Bilderbergs have, until I started investigating it.

Ask yourselves what could be the possible BENEFIT of each of these incredibly important individuals meeting together like this, being a part of this club? What are they personally getting out of it? What if each of these individuals agreed to fulfill a very small favor for the organization? The aggregate would be incredibly significant, wouldn't it!

To everyone reading this thread: I recognize how completely bizarre the notion of a "covert ruling elite" may sound. I'm not out to convince anybody, I cannot and will not be held responsible for someone else's belief system. I do not believe it is fair to sit here and dictate other people's opinions. You should decide for yourself! I can simply present what I am able to present when time permits, as I am only 1 individual with a finite amount of time available. Make your own decisions, but at least take some time to look into it yourselves, on your own motivations, before you decide there is nothing to it. There is a difference between being a skeptic and being a naysayer.

I'd like to hear some other people's opinions about it!

[Edited on 6-6-2003 by MKULTRA]

Wanderer is a Freemason, what do u expect? Im still wndering what hes doing on this board........dont u have a lodge brother to drive home from the nudie bar?

Abraham said:

He is a man who hated Jews.

George W. Bush's paternal grandfather, Prescott Bush, funded Hitler. Hell of a bloodline, eh?