Gamergate and Cyber Bullying

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: Awolscout

Their over all message is the same however.

I would disagree for instance end game for Thompson would have been making games as a whole illegal or at least highly regulated.

End game for SarkIntosh is making every game a mouthpiece for their views in order to indoc a new generation in to their bastardized version of feminism.

a reply to: Awolscout

The message that videogames cause ____________.
Is the same.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

i know, right?

again, i think it's another example of this walking on egg shells, political correctness BS...

flay Jack alive, but don't even THINK of taking off the gloves around Anita...it's a sickening double standard..

bad arguments are bad arguments, and they should be actively countered, regardless of who's making them....she shouldn't get a free pass to make the same flawed arguments, just because she's a woman...equality means equal treatment in ALL things...

a reply to: Awolscout

right, but you're missing the bit where their assertions are similarly flawed....Jack claimed GTA made people go be violent...Anita claims GTA makes you go be sexist, and violent to women....

ignore the endgame, focus on the flawed arguments....they're virtually identical...

Oh.

And here's some charities #GamerGate is supporting.
gamergate.me...

originally posted by: Daedalus

lol, what an incredibly ignorant, and nonsensical post....

Straight out of Zoe Quinn's mouth, "For Survivors, By Survivors":

“Even people who are knowledgable about technology or culture or gender politics sometimes give advice that wouldn’t work or apply or might be actively harmful,” says Lifschitz. “They’re just making their best guess. We realized that people needed a resource of people who had experienced it and could give them best practices and advice.”

Both her and Sarkisian make their living by being "mouth pieces", they MAKE NOTHING. The bigger the controversy, the bigger their payout and added career longevity, for making nothing but noise. Incremental legislation and erroneous legal action taken against these two, can silence them FOREVER. Its really simple, drain their bank accounts and make them irrelevant in the industry through legal action, chipping away, little by little, at their financial foundation. New tech firms with GREAT designs and good business models get shut down like this, every day, by big players. The same strategy works with media personalities too.

Does any of stuff that Quinn and Sarkisian publish have speech exemptions under anti-SLAPP statutes? Maybe, maybe not, but its certainly worth exploring, especially if people REALLY WANTED TO SHUT THEM UP. Also why doesn't Sarkisian get IP infringement taken-down orders on her videos? How long do you think she could she make her points effectively, without using imagery from the actual video games? She's not a real academic in a University or Think tank researcher, so her "fair-use" protections, unlike a professor or researcher, doesn't go quite as far as most would think.

Here is an example of how legislation effectively silenced activists, whom were not previously breaking any laws:

Activists Silenced by Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act File Lawsuit

Apply the same legislative strategy to Quinn and Sarkisian, through the manipulation of PAC's and POOF their gone from the spotlight forever.

I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree.

a reply to: Daedalus


Good replies and I appreciate your thought out answers. I'm disturbed that you don't think I've researched all sides to this. I have. You miss a few things.

Despite what you guys WANT gamergate to be, it isn't that any longer. It is mostly hijacked by 4chan, the internet trolls, the mens rights activists and the woman haters and all the rest. You're in the minority and you dont' want to believe it. Also, you have a point that gamergate was hijacked by some of the women in question. But that only makes it more of a mess and more Chaotic. Nothing good has come of this. All the haters are jumping on board. If it was something like #ethicsingaming and it was less damning of people like Zoe Quinn and more about Grayson, or Quinns ex..as it should be....it wouldn't be hijacked to this extent.

I'm far more disturbed by Grayson and his ilk and by people like Quinns ex boy friend. You talk about photoshop, but there are real photos of Quinn naked. She actually was doxxed...maybe she helped but people that don't like her are and have posted real nude photos of her and her address or what they thought her address was.

It's like you don't want to believe that?

In a fair world, you woudn't have to move on from the "gamergate" movement. But life isn't fair, especially on the internet, and things do get hijacked and we do have to move on to make progress. It is time to dumb gamergate and stop defending it.

Because when you do, you aren't just defending you and the rest of the good guys, you're defending all the anti feminists, women haters, rapists and sociopaths that took it over.

lastly, if you just use google, you can see the hundreds of derogatory posts under any article criticizing gamergate, especially if it's written by a woman.

You have points, I understand but it's insulting to me that you don't think I know what I'm talking about. Maybe you should do some more research?

a reply to: amazing

More like you want to believe what you.
Your whole argument depends on a bias that shows when you avoid certain aspects to accentuate others.
Also, when you try to tell people involved in the movement what it's actually about.

Your arguments from A to Z stink of the exact same bs that those that gamergate is actually about are feeding to those who don't know any better.
Like that monumentally contrived and stupid SVU episode.

Holy s**t, i thought for sure, i'd be using this on one of amazing's posts...

originally posted by: boohoo

Straight out of Zoe Quinn's mouth, "For Survivors, By Survivors":

“Even people who are knowledgable about technology or culture or gender politics sometimes give advice that wouldn’t work or apply or might be actively harmful,” says Lifschitz. “They’re just making their best guess. We realized that people needed a resource of people who had experienced it and could give them best practices and advice.”

I'm gonna guess you missed the bit where it says "says Lifschitz."

Also, could i have a link to what this quote is in reference to? i'm almost certain this has been taken out of context...

Both her and Sarkisian make their living by being "mouth pieces", they MAKE NOTHING. The bigger the controversy, the bigger their payout and added career longevity, for making nothing but noise. Incremental legislation and erroneous legal action taken against these two, can silence them FOREVER. Its really simple, drain their bank accounts and make them irrelevant in the industry through legal action, chipping away, little by little, at their financial foundation. New tech firms with GREAT designs and good business models get shut down like this, every day, by big players. The same strategy works with media personalities too.

No, they don't....Sarkeesian makes her money doing videos, and speaking engagements, and through tons of sympathy donations, because she's so oppressed...

Quinn doesn't do all this...she made a crappy game, that very few people liked, and she put it out for free, but then made it so you could donate to her...she makes money from donations, mostly now, i imagine....

Bottom line is that you made an erroneous statement, i attempted to correct you, and you simply will not accept that you said something incorrect.

Does any of stuff that Quinn and Sarkisian publish have speech exemptions under anti-SLAPP statutes? Maybe, maybe not, but its certainly worth exploring, especially if people REALLY WANTED TO SHUT THEM UP. Also why doesn't Sarkisian get IP infringement taken-down orders on her videos? How long do you think she could she make her points effectively, without using imagery from the actual video games? She's not a real academic in a University or Think tank researcher, so her "fair-use" protections, unlike a professor or researcher, doesn't go quite as far as most would think.

Here is an example of how legislation effectively silenced activists, whom were not previously breaking any laws:

Activists Silenced by Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act File Lawsuit

Apply the same legislative strategy to Quinn and Sarkisian, through the manipulation of PAC's and POOF their gone from the spotlight forever.

I guess we will simply have to agree to disagree.

and this is a tactic, most foul.....the only people out to shut them up, are the same jerkoffs who are sending them death and rape threats....nobody with a brain is telling them that they need to shut up, or that they can't have an opinion....they can have all the opinion they want, what those of us with brains would prefer, is if nobody would listen, because they're wrong. The only way this happens, is to discredit them, and demonstrate the falsity of their claims.

"shutting them up" is just bad form..

i'm fairly certain that they have the very same "fair use" protections that people who make parodies of things, and people who do game reviews on youtube, do. Your argument holds no water.

i think you might be one of those trolls, or genuine anti-woman types, me and amazing were arguing about....you don't seem to be interested in anything other than going after these two irrelevant people..

originally posted by: amazing
Good replies and I appreciate your thought out answers. I'm disturbed that you don't think I've researched all sides to this. I have. You miss a few things.

That's the thing....the stuff you say, tells me that you are actually ignorant of quite a lot, and that you've not researched as thoroughly, or fairly as you like to think you have...again, i can help you with that, if you'd like.

Despite what you guys WANT gamergate to be, it isn't that any longer.

based on what?

It is mostly hijacked by 4chan, the internet trolls, the mens rights activists and the woman haters and all the rest.

Actually, GG was kicked off 4chan. Again, you're unaware of a lot.. Also, you've still failed to provide me with anything even resembling proof that MRAs, and woman haters are operating under the GG banner. As i've said, when that kind of crap is seen by genuine GG participants, those assholes are shouted down, and reported.

You're in the minority and you dont' want to believe it.

Again, based on what?

Also, you have a point that gamergate was hijacked by some of the women in question. But that only makes it more of a mess and more Chaotic.

No, i said that GG's IMAGE was hijacked....and then promptly dragged though the mud...it's the same as it ever was, it's just been given the ILLUSION of being completely made up of intolerable pricks..

Nothing good has come of this.

Did you REALLY read my posts? Plenty of good has already come of this, and more will come in the future..

All the haters are jumping on board.

how to you reckon?

If it was something like #ethicsingaming and it was less damning of people like Zoe Quinn and more about Grayson, or Quinns ex..as it should be....it wouldn't be hijacked to this extent.

How is it damning of Zoe Quinn? nobody in GG CARES about Zoe Quinn.....we'd LOVE to stop talking about her, but idiots keep bringing her up. she doesn't matter...and neither does Sarkeesian, or Wu....but the media keep putting the spotlight on them, to continue this bulls**t manufactured narrative.

Again, have you read my posts? GG has looked into not only Grayson, but a LOT of other game journos.....

I'm far more disturbed by Grayson and his ilk and by people like Quinns ex boy friend. You talk about photoshop, but there are real photos of Quinn naked. She actually was doxxed...maybe she helped but people that don't like her are and have posted real nude photos of her and her address or what they thought her address was.

It's like you don't want to believe that?

It's like you don't actually read my posts, before replying to them..

I bloody know there are real photos of her naked....she was a bloody adult model for a little while..i mentioned that.

Again, i only know of one confirmed instance of doxxing, and that doxx was completely fabricated. I heard a RUMOR of a second doxxing, but never saw any proof of it's existence.

In a fair world, you woudn't have to move on from the "gamergate" movement. But life isn't fair, especially on the internet, and things do get hijacked and we do have to move on to make progress. It is time to dumb gamergate and stop defending it.

Because when you do, you aren't just defending you and the rest of the good guys, you're defending all the anti feminists, women haters, rapists and sociopaths that took it over.

And again, you keep saying "dump gamergate", "get away from gamergate", "start a new hashtag", but you put zero thought to how to combat the image of that new banner from being sullied by the same people who have sullied the GG banner.

lastly, if you just use google, you can see the hundreds of derogatory posts under any article criticizing gamergate, especially if it's written by a woman.

Could it possibly have ANYTHING to do with the fact that those articles are largely parroting the manufactured narrative about GG being a hate group, and that it's nothing to do with journalism? ....naah, couldn't be that people hate on those articles because they deliberately mischaracterize, and defame gamers.. That "especially if it's written by a woman" bit was a nice touch...men who are writing this crap aren't getting a free pass.

You have points, I understand but it's insulting to me that you don't think I know what I'm talking about. Maybe you should do some more research?

I've done A LOT of research...been researching for nearly an entire month... I'm pretty sure i could serve as a FSME on GG, at this point...

You can take offense all you like, but the fact of the matter is that the things you say PROVE to me that you don't know what you're talking about.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: amazing

More like you want to believe what you.
Your whole argument depends on a bias that shows when you avoid certain aspects to accentuate others.
Also, when you try to tell people involved in the movement what it's actually about.

Your arguments from A to Z stink of the exact same bs that those that gamergate is actually about are feeding to those who don't know any better.
Like that monumentally contrived and stupid SVU episode.

Didn't even watch that...But you just discounted all of my thoughts on the matter as if my opinion has no merit.

Did you see what you did there? I realize my comments and thoughts on the whole gamergate thing are pretty one sided, but you've just demonstrated that you are no better than me. So, in all seriousness, where does that leave us and all who think like us.

There is a huge perception out there with many articles, posts, screenshots, accusations, testimony...it's all out there...there is a huge perception out there that gamergate is exactly like I stated, and that all criticism will be blocked and discounted. You just did that. You appear to be unwilling to take a look at any opinion that is different than yours.

That's a pretty ignorant attitude. I mean one of us has to be wrong, or maybe both of us...maybe we're both missing it.

I'm willing to look hard, and change my attitude if I see enough evidence, are you?

a reply to: Daedalus

So you don't think gamergaters have been hijacked by the trolls and all the rest?

That's my biggest concern, that nothing good is happening and that it's become a cesspool of hate. Sure I know there are people under that banner who aren't like that I did see the donations to non profits under the banner, but that's too little too late. I think more harm than good at this point, You don't seem to be willing to even consider a differing opinion other than your own.

do you read the comments on any of the articles that you read? Do you actually scroll down through some of these twitter feeds and facebook pages? I do.

a reply to: amazing

You've been given evidence.
In abundance, from GamerGaters, the proverbial horses mouth, myself to name one.
You've been shown the ancillary movement "not your shield" which SUPPORTS gamergate.

So your claim you'll change your tune is not genuine.
I would like to see you leave this directed bias of your's.
Don't get me wrong, but I don't see it happening.

Do you think that if you write shorter posts, it will make my responses any less verbose?

You're better off just replying to me, and not ignoring stuff...that just makes me angry, lol

originally posted by: amazing
So you don't think gamergaters have been hijacked by the trolls and all the rest?

No...and i've seen no evidence of that...

I've said this to you multiple times, but i guess one more won't hurt...if you've seen examples of bad things being done under the GG banner, then by all means, show me.

That's my biggest concern, that nothing good is happening and that it's become a cesspool of hate. Sure I know there are people under that banner who aren't like that I did see the donations to non profits under the banner, but that's too little too late. I think more harm than good at this point, You don't seem to be willing to even consider a differing opinion other than your own.

They have been donating to the various charities throughout this whole thing, so what do you mean "too little too late"?

I'm completely willing to consider a differing opinion....opinions are fine, i care more for facts though....just because you THINK something is true, doesn't make it actually true.

do you read the comments on any of the articles that you read? Do you actually scroll down through some of these twitter feeds and facebook pages? I do.

Which i find especially hilarious.....you claim you don't have time to write up proper replies, and have a proper conversation with me, because you have a job, and a life and all that....which is fine....but then you turn around, and tell me that you waste time going though inane, and mostly useless chatter on facebook, twitter, and article comment sections...

To answer your question, no, i do not waste time sifting through that garbage.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: darkbake

Seems to me "research" would constitute seeking out both sides of the story.
Which you admit you did not in any sense do.

Well I posted the story on here with an open mind to see what other people had to say about it. That is where I learned the other perspective. I went to all of the links offered from the Facebook post I got the story from and did some Google searches as well. I'm not sure how to join #Gamergate, and I don't visit Twitter or 4chan. I visited the WIkipedia page for Gamergate.

Anyway, I'm not biased, if that's what you are implying. The O.P. is based on the research I did before writing it. I'm more than open to what people are saying on here. . . don't antagonize me.

a reply to: darkbake

well, ya' see, here's the thing....



there's no official leadership, no HQ, no entry form...the whole deal is decentralized...

you can claim affiliation, but if you were to go to the KiA board on reddit, and you start talking about plans to harass women, or whatever, you'd be disavowed, reported, and probably banned from reddit, lol

4-chan isn't gamergate....4-chan has nothing to do with gamergate(anymore)... 8-chan is where the initial wave of GG supporters came from(they relocated to 8-chan after 4-chan decided to ban all discussion of GG), but unfortunately, it's also where a lot of the trolls came from too...you REALLY don't wanna bother with any of the "chan" sites...i hear that the KiA board on reddit is a decent place to hang out, and talk to actual GG participants..it also appears there are more than a few of us here too....

Also...informational resources...

the wikipedia.org page on gamergate is HORRIBLY biased.....you'll hear the SJW's and "radfems" claim that wiki is biased, and that they only banned women....that's bulls**t. They allowed the SJW's and "radfems" to basically vandalize the page, and then they topic banned everyone who tried to make it fair and accurate. you'll find that the wikipedia entry is in lock-step with the manufactured narrative that the MSM is pushing...

If you want the other side of the story, go here: gamergate.me...

plenty of info on GG, and their wiki is REALLY good, their GG entry is pretty decent, and the timeline is VERY detailed, and goddamn near EVERYTHING in the timeline is sourced.

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
a reply to: amazing

You've been given evidence.
In abundance, from GamerGaters, the proverbial horses mouth, myself to name one.
You've been shown the ancillary movement "not your shield" which SUPPORTS gamergate.

So your claim you'll change your tune is not genuine.
I would like to see you leave this directed bias of your's.
Don't get me wrong, but I don't see it happening.

I've also found evidence, but I'll keep reading stuff and watching the whole thing and see where it goes. I have an open mind, and maybe part of the problem is the haters and rapists and trolls who've hijacked gamergate are louder than you are and more obnoxious and are getting more media attention.

I'm a Gamer too and know lots of gamers...also know lots of feminists, my job entails me working with abused women and bullying victims and also victims of online harassment. I probably have a deeper understanding of this issue than you guys or at least an equal understanding. Just because I have a differing opinion, doesn't make me wrong. My perception is very different than yours, perception based on evidence, but still only perception.

a reply to: amazing

There's still the problem of you asserting that GG has been hijacked....it hasn't.

you've still failed to produce any evidence of negative activity (threats, harassment, etc) being perpetrated by GG participants, or under the GG banner.

and seriously?....rapists?....has ANYONE been raped because of GG? don't you think that's a bit hyperbolic?

additionally, as i've explained, the negative bits(which still haven't been proven to actually be linked to GG) are only getting media attention, because the MSM loves sensational crap, and the games press wants to deflect attention away from itself....it's all part of this manufactured narrative. would you kindly stop buying into it?

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: amazing

There's still the problem of you asserting that GG has been hijacked....it hasn't.

you've still failed to produce any evidence of negative activity (threats, harassment, etc) being perpetrated by GG participants, or under the GG banner.

and seriously?....rapists?....has ANYONE been raped because of GG? don't you think that's a bit hyperbolic?

additionally, as i've explained, the negative bits(which still haven't been proven to actually be linked to GG) are only getting media attention, because the MSM loves sensational crap, and the games press wants to deflect attention away from itself....it's all part of this manufactured narrative. would you kindly stop buying into it?

A couple of points then.

I equate anyone that threatens rape to be a rapist. That's splitting hairs, I guess but I take that stuff seriously and there have been multiple documented rape threats to female gamers, gaming journalists etc.

gamergate has been hijacked, in my opinion, but lets define that. If ten people have a movement and 1 person takes it over..and hijacks it controlling the discussion....the ration isn't fair but it's still hijacked. and though not calling themselves gamergaters or flying the banner many of these haters, trolls and rapists pile on in any gamergate discussion. You can tell them by how negative they are, how hateful and divisive and threatening and insulting.

What is the reality. Gamergate is what? Ten thousand peeps with another ten thousand on the periphery that aren't directly under it but pile on in these discussions. These peripheral 10 thousand people have hijacked it and continue to pile on. Those ten thousand are so loud and obnoxous that I can't even hear the sane ones speak anymore.

If that's the truth, then what do you do? I still think, my opinion, and my perception, is that it's hijacked. I could be wrong. but I laid out why I think that.

I came up with 10 thousand by doing several google searches. It seems to be about right but you may be able to do further research and find other numbers.

And lets talk about Ben Spruill, Todd Kincannon, Andrew Auernheimer, even Adam Baldwin( who compares homosexuality to incest) Robert Stacy McCain, Davis Aurini, Paul Elam( from a voice for men-that's a mens rights website that hates women)

I could go on and on but THESE are who ARE posting under the gamergate hashtag.. they aren't very nice people.