Ukrainians Rage Against Military Draft: "We're Sick Of This War"

a reply to: misskat1

yes do that i for one would sign up in an instant ,i would start one my self if i knew how .
but if the people in power take notice is another thing .

It's OBVIOUS she was a Kremlin agent... as well as Zerohedge, and the OP... and me!

Awesome that ordinary people from the country stand up against that bull$hit. It's their lives that are sacrificed in the first place, surely not that of people like Victoria Nuland, Gen. Breedlove, propagandist-in-chief Edward Lucas, Mad Dog McCain and their neo-fascist puppets in Kiev.



From source article:

What she did is now a crime in Ukraine: the only reason she wasn’t arrested on the spot is that the villagers wouldn’t have permitted it. But in Ukrainian Transcarpathia, well-known journalist for Ukrainian Channel 112 Ruslan Kotsaba has been arrested and charged with "treason" and "espionage" for making a video in which he declared: "I would rather sit in jail for three to five years than go to the east to kill my Ukrainian brothers. This fear-mongering must be stopped." Kotsaba may sit in jail for twenty-three years, the prescribed term for the charges filed against him.

Criminalizing draft-resistance is just just an increment lower than what the Nazis have doing late in the war, forcing people in the countryside at gunpoint to fight for the army. I wouldn't be surprised they'll get to this point soon, with the help of Academi goons, perhaps even NATO troops. They'll be given full lawless greenlight in that place.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Rocker2013

so its putins fault that keiv is attacking the east. why do you think that?

Okay, you guys are completely irrational and it's pretty much pointless to try to debate in any way with the propagandists here who utterly deny REALITY.

Lets once again get something absolutely clear here...

PUTIN INVADED UKRAINE
PUTIN ANNEXED CRIMEA
PUTIN BROKE INTERNATIONAL LAW
UKRAINE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF
NATO HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND NATO MEMBERS
PUTIN HAS CAUSED ALL OF THIS BY INVADING ANOTHER NATION.

Like it or not, these are facts. You can try to ignore them, try to deflect attention, try to change the course of a discussion, try to pretend that Putin is some saintly being defending Russia from the "evil West", but NOTHING will change these facts.

Now I fully expect you to come back with something like "But... Merika is fascist, Kiev is fascist!!!!!!!111111"

None of this BS changes the reality that RUSSIA HAS INVADED UKRAINE. Go ahead, propagandize amongst yourselves, up vote each others bullsh*t, you're wasting your time because everyone outside of Russia knows how this started and who is responsible for it.

Please keep shouting. You just drying your throat while making a fool of yourself.

Also I can do that too...

THE MOON IS HOLLOW IT'S A SPACESHIP BUILT BY THE REPTILIANS!
THE ALLIES DID THE NAZI HOLOCAUST!
HITLER TRIED TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM A NUCLEAR WAR!
JFK WAS REALLY KILLED ONLY BY OSWALD, WHO WAS A COMMIE CUBAN KGB SPY!
JFK WAS ALSO A COMMIE BASTARD SO DESERVED TO BE SHOT (BY THE KGB... oh wait)!
and also a classic...
THE TWIN TOWERS COLLAPSED AT FREE-FALL SPEED AFTER LESS THAN AN HOUR BECAUSE OF TWO AIRLINERS HITTING NEAR THE TOP!

(and on and on)

Works!

Actually not.

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

I hope so, it is a fantasy of mine. That one day the old men will want to go to war and no young men or women will show up for the party. Old men always ask the young to die for their causes, the young should be the hope of the future not the end of it.

I have always supported the abolition of the draft in all countries of the world - I don't care what their purpose is. Dragging people out of their home's to go and kill other people is immoral and a crime against humanity.
Men should especially get behind this movement as its mainly their lives on the line.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
victoria nuland?

Yes, what a shock, the US has an interest in being involved when a former Soviet state wants to have closer ties with the rest of the developed world!

I really don't understand the shock and surprise here. You think Russia didn't have the same calls and conversations about international politics with he last Ukrainian leader? You think government departments don't ever talk to each other about what is in the best interests of them, or their country, or the people in the country they're talking about?

I don't know whether to think people here are just incredibly naive, or teenagers just discovering international politics, or propagandists desperate to find anything that even remotely "suggests" interference of one form or another.

It's not surprising, and it's not a shock, to hear foreign government agencies having an interest in steering the future of a country which might become an great ally.

And if any proof were needed, Ukraine is still seeking help from foreign nations, including the US. And why would that be? Perhaps it's because Russia has attacked, invaded and stolen a chunk of land from them?

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
and is ukraine protecting itself from its own people? have there been attacks against ukraine? who attacked odessa? who is attacking lugansk and donetsk? please give me one good reason as to why these people should be attacked? would russian troops be in kiev if the UAF stopped killing civilians? how does that work?

Ukraine is protecting itself from Russian aggression, you and I both know that.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
ohh and btw Ukraine is not a NATO member.

I'm aware of that thanks. I'm also aware that other neighbouring nations are members of NATO, and have requested increased protection from NATO due to the obvious threat from Russia.

It should be noted that any military draft, in any country, under any circumstances will be resisted by a percentage of the population. Even after the attack on Pearl Harbor there were some US citizens who decried and dodged the draft.

Decent analogy: let's say a group of people is attempting to cross a vast desert. A certain percentage of them will give up and willfully succumb to exposure. When the human will grows weak from suffering, it is only natural for a person to make irrational choices in order to end the pain. Those irrational choices include effective suicide...or submitting to a bleak future so as curtail the immediate threat.

Couple of side notes...
Is it possible for pro-Russian members to attempt a point without histrionic hyperbole?

Is ATS concerned at all that its integrity might be undermined by propaganda?

a reply to: Rocker2013

ohh, well Russia had an interest in making cuba an ally and the US almost nuked them both. your calling me naive yet you believe that russia should be ok with NATO's expansion and that the citizens of east Ukraine are all fine with the new government and haven't held referendums to get away from Ukraine and are now being attacked for it.

ive asked it before and ill ask it again why do the citizens of east ukraine not have the right to self determination?

Certainly nobody wants to be cannon fodder for new Kiev regime to add to the death toll of thousands in the east of Ukraine. Moreover, while Porky and Yats are "struggling for united Ukraine", sending people to the Donbas bloody bath, over 78% of Transcarpathian Rusyns are voting for being an autonomous region either. 90.9% of all Transcarpathians (including ethnic Hungarians) now do not recognize Petro Poroshenko as a legitimate president of Ukraine and refuse to comply with decisions of new Ukrainian authorities, who call for war against other Ukrainians. Just now they block roads, including international highways, siege enlistment stations and other administrative buildings... Thus, soon Kiev will have to open the Western front in its country, eh?

originally posted by: SearchLightsInc
I have always supported the abolition of the draft in all countries of the world - I don't care what their purpose is. Dragging people out of their home's to go and kill other people is immoral and a crime against humanity.
Men should especially get behind this movement as its mainly their lives on the line.

I agree and it should be a war crime
If you can't get enough willing volenteers to fight a war then that war is obviously a amoral war.

Without conscription WW1 would had fizzled out on both sides.
Without conscription I doubt Germany would have got past 1941.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
Of course the Poster of this thread is completely biased and doesn't even try to present a balanced picture.

Ukraine is having typical success in it's efforts to conscript men.

www.kyivpost.com...

This detailed article admits that volunteers have dwindled to join the military. However it states that,

"In Zakarpattia Oblast, only 410 out of 1,110 people who received draft notices came to mobilization centers, Oleg Lysenko, a representative of General Staff said recently."

A very far different statistic than what the OP puts forward.

This story paints a very real picture of conscription and how difficult it is on Ukrainians. The story doesn't hide the difficulties in raising an army.

ATS readers should consider the source, as always. When you see the same posters pumping out inaccurate information you get to see a pattern. Mis-information is being posted at ATS...ON PURPOSE...to support a state agenda. As always beware...

Ukrainian news sources like the Kyiv post are not a reliable source of information.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: Rocker2013

ohh, well Russia had an interest in making cuba an ally and the US almost nuked them both. your calling me naive yet you believe that russia should be ok with NATO's expansion and that the citizens of east Ukraine are all fine with the new government and haven't held referendums to get away from Ukraine and are now being attacked for it.

ive asked it before and ill ask it again why do the citizens of east ukraine not have the right to self determination?

They don't support the Western world order.

I think they dont want to be cannon fodder is the point, nor do they want to be executed so they are in a tough spot. I am suprised there arent more draft dodgers fleeing the country.