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Ukrainians Rage Against Military Draft: "We're Sick Of This War"

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posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 08:35 PM
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originally posted by: ColCurious
I knew Ukraine had issues with freedom of press, but 15 years for speaking against the Government?


Most former Soviet nations have problems with not only freedom of the press, but Human Rights, equality, education, religion...

However, Ukraine is far healthier than Russia, especially when it comes to freedom of opinion, expression and the press.

Lets not forget that in the last two years Putin has seized most of the MSM in Russia, even stealing the two largest media outlets in the country from their rightful owners, who then had to flee the country for their own safety. This is also a country where punk musicians are locked up for daring to express an opinion critical of Putin, and where opposition politicians are threatened and even prosecuted under imaginary charges to silence them.




posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Rocker2013

Soldiers and people are dying, getting maimed, amputated, houses burned etc. etc. and this man is cool, calm and collective.

Those who show such demeanor in the face of such calamity are................EVIL !!


And who is responsible for that?
Putin, that's who.

But you won't see anyone ranting like that at cool and calm Putin, because Russia doesn't have freedom of political expression in the way Ukraine does. If someone did that to Putin they would probably be "disappeared" within a week, never to be heard from again.

If you want someone to blame for the killing and maiming in Ukraine (many of whom seem to be Russian troops, men who are apparently not even in Ukraine!) then you need to blame the president who invaded another country.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Nope..........people in Donbass just wanted federalism in Ukraine with rights to their languages and similar other matters. Porky responded with sending tanks and artillery laden with phosphorus bombs.

Putin had to do something to help Donbass people defend themselves. Initially it started with few men with rag-tag guns and similar arms. Porky responded with tanks and mortar.

Things escalated and now Porky's boys are getting slammed. He is still cool and calling for more meat to be sent to be fryed and blown up. Sick man Porky is !!



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

We are all experiencing a loss in freedom, but more a loss in courage to stand up, it's not limited to one place, we are all the victims of trickery from our politician's but as long as our corrupt govs have us divided and complacent,squabbling amongst ourselves about who to blame, who's better, which accomplishes absolutely nothing, then they have won, then it is only ourselves to blame, for inaction, for not demanding that our leaders, our representatives are held accountable for the reasons they were placed in office for the things they promised us.
Until then our liberty and rights will continue to erode
edit on 10-2-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: PsychoEmperor

Not to worry

US government will soon instruct Kiev to execute a false flag of gigantic proportions to galvanize people to enlist in army

Just wait and see



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:02 PM
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originally posted by: bucsarg
For those Ugranian people who do not want to be ruled over by Putin's Russia then I suggest
you don't worry about the draft but hurry to your nearest military recruiter to join. Why? Putin's wants Ukraine hell or high water.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien



Why does Putin want Ukraine, hell or high water? Explain to me the advantage of invading and holding Ukraine. If The West wanted it, we would have had it long ago. The same with Russia. Why didn't us or the Russians take it in the last 25 years? The place is a disaster and getting worse everyday. From just doing nothing, the Ukrainian government will implode, and someone will have to take it for humanitarian reasons. Whoever takes it over must reconstruct it. Doesn't it seem like an enormous pain in the a** for Russia to take Ukraine? Explain to me why Putin wants to take Ukraine, spending countless on reconstruction, and how this is all worth it to Russia?
edit on 10-2-2015 by naftaland because: More info



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013
Even when another country has invaded your nation?
I'll bet your sons would have an entirely different view.


Actually Eastern Ukraine wants to separate not invade

You know.... Doesn't accept US puppet government, things like that



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:10 PM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013
Most former Soviet nations have problems with not only freedom of the press, but Human Rights, equality, education, religion...

However, Ukraine is far healthier than Russia, especially when it comes to freedom of opinion, expression and the press.

Lets not forget that in the last two years Putin has seized most of the MSM in Russia, even stealing the two largest media outlets in the country from their rightful owners, who then had to flee the country for their own safety. This is also a country where punk musicians are locked up for daring to express an opinion critical of Putin, and where opposition politicians are threatened and even prosecuted under imaginary charges to silence them.


I quoted your whole post so I can go on the record that it is wrong on all levels

Ok off I go



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:51 PM
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Putin wants the gas reserves. More importantly Putin's is concerned that NATO will move into Ukraine with USA military build up. Putin absolutely will not tolerate USA/ NATO in his backyard.

Hope this helps you.

a reply to: naftaland



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 10:55 PM
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originally posted by: bucsarg
Putin wants the gas reserves. More importantly Putin's is concerned that NATO will move into Ukraine with USA military build up. Putin absolutely will not tolerate USA/ NATO in his backyard.

Hope this helps you.

a reply to: naftaland


Gas reserves? Russia is the largest country in the world, and is the largest natural gas producer as well. Ukraine has 5.4 trillion cubic meters while Russia possesses 48.7 trillion. Also, when Russia took Crimea, they already grabbed a chunk of their 5.4 trillion. Perhaps Russia wants some gas bills paid, as Ukraine buys 80% of its' natural gas consumption from Russia. So much of Russia is still undeveloped. So much of it is still being geologically explored. I doubt Ukraine's natural gas reserves has much to do with Putin's interests.
I agree, though, Putin does not want NATO in his backyard. But really, NATO is already against Russian borders in places, or places closely aligned with Russia. Absolutely, an expansion of NATO into Ukraine would be very uncomfortable for Russia. If Putin began this mess to take Ukraine, he has just not invaded Eastern Ukraine yet. If he was going to, he would have been in Kiev long ago. I mean, he was eyeing Crimea for a long time, and when he could take it, he did. He had the opportunity to take more, with an invitation from Eastern Ukraine, and he did not then. Why? He wasn't interested. He still is not interested in such a conquest. However, as Ukraine's government and economy is disintegrating, at this rate it would become so bad that Putin would have to invade Eastern Ukraine for humanitarian reasons. All of these economic hardships for Putin will inadvertently collapse Ukraine before there is any substantial effect upon Russia. He does not want more NATO in his backyard, but then again, he does not want a Civil War next door either. Besides, the Ukrainians do not like the Russians, and the Russians look at Ukrainians as peasants. But do the common people of these nations really want to murder each other? Not really.
edit on 10-2-2015 by naftaland because: Typo



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:00 PM
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Well for the sake of the Ugranian people I hope your correct and I'm wrong. Time will tell.

By the he way. It's wants the gas reserves so he can have control over the Ugranians.


a reply to: naftaland



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:45 PM
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originally posted by: bucsarg
Well for the sake of the Ugranian people I hope your correct and I'm wrong. Time will tell.

By the he way. It's wants the gas reserves so he can have control over the Ugranians.


a reply to: naftaland


Well, I am constantly in contact with a friend in Ukraine. There is what I read here, and what they tell me too. To us, we watch this from afar. We are not (yet?) directly threatened from this. For Putin, even if he does want to control Ukraine, he could only ever get the Eastern rebel section. Besides that, the Civil War there does directly threaten Russia. For Putin, controlling Ukraine would of course be Very Desirable. That's what he wants, like The West now realizes that same value. But because this Civil War is next door, and has become a huge geopolitical issue, Putin incurs too much risk from it. It threatens him and Russia, and control of Ukraine for the sake of monetary gain or imperialism is only a luxurious desire under such hazards. He needs this Civil War to end more than The West does. I figure if it becomes too dangerous to Russia, then he will take what he can hold: Eastern Ukraine. Looking back, Putin probably wishes he did so in the first place.
So many people go on about the military and economic might of The West. That The West can clean Putin's clock and show him who is boss. But this will not transform Ukraine into a Utopia, nor end this war. If The West invades, or continues on with economic warfare, and even if sometime Putin is ousted, that will not pay off Ukraine's foreign debts, rocket Ukraine's currency and economy up, clean the corruption out of their government, repair all of the damage, and cause both sides to hug each other. This is a Civil War that began because the Ukrainians, East and West, got fed up with Kiev's corruption. Kiev was able to recoup Central and Western Ukraine, but not the East. Even for what they have now, it is deteriorating toward another Revolution, especially with the impending draft of women which will lead to insurrection. The mathematical certainty of a Second Revolution is far more menacing than Putin. The Ukrainians want this war to end, but obediently following Kiev into battle is not something draftees could do. They don't want Putin in their territory as their number one priority, but that can change under a societal collapse as they don't trust Kiev now. Yes, the Ukrainians do not like the Russians, but it is not in the Ukrainian character to actually want to kill Russians. Joining the military for Kiev's ends, even if it means an end to mass unemployment, is just not on the Ukrainian mind.
edit on 10-2-2015 by naftaland because: More info



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

No doubt about that.

The same Press Freedom Index that ranks Ukraine on place 131 puts Russia on #140...
I'm pretty sure what happened to that journalist Kotsaba in Ukraine could have easily happened in Russia too.

Also, all the efforts made to support dissidents within Russia to reform and open their nation were set back two decades(!) since the political climate changed between east and west.
I know a guy who worked at the Goethe-Institute... all the work they have done over the years is ruined.

There were tentative signs of a thaw, a chance for more open relations between the West and Russia... now all that is gone, and Putin's popularity soars at ~80%.
edit on 11-2-2015 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 07:51 AM
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Having in mind half of them speak Russian and have at least one parent Russian, it is understandable the feelings of the common Ukrainians who don't want to fight.

Poroshenko warned of martial law should the peace negotiations fail.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

so its putins fault that keiv is attacking the east. why do you think that?



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: bucsarg
Putin wants the gas reserves. More importantly Putin's is concerned that NATO will move into Ukraine with USA military build up. Putin absolutely will not tolerate USA/ NATO in his backyard.

Hope this helps you.

a reply to: naftaland



putin wants the gas reserves? your telling us that russia, the country with the most gas and oil in the world, wants the gas of a country that can only produce about half of its gas needs?



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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powerful stuff. no one can talk sense into people like an old, wise, Russian/Ukrainian lady.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
your telling us that russia, the country with the most gas and oil in the world, wants the gas of a country that can only produce about half of its gas needs?


Russia does NOT have the most Oil and Gas reserves in the World...FALSE
en.wikipedia.org...

Ukraine can NOT produce about half of it's own gas needs...FALSE
www.eia.gov...

Research prior to typing helps in accuracy. Or just keep posting garbage to try to fool people...



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky




Russia does NOT have the most Oil and Gas reserves in the World...FALSE


no its not false, experts say that Russia potentially has the most untapped oil and gas in the world.




Ukraine can NOT produce about half of it's own gas needs...FALSE


yeah it produces less than half, sorry i misspoke, forgive me. but my point still stands and is even more valid now that you've said something.



posted on Feb, 11 2015 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

and my point was that Russia needs Ukraine oil and gas like lesbians need a big strong man in their life. how am i fooling anyone, its just common sense.




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