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Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry

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posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:35 AM
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Personally I think we need to get over a death that happened 2,000 yrs ago, and start manifesting the Spirit of Christ that is alive and available for all today. Lets make our world an example of Love Peace and Joy, then His death will have mattered.

If He truly arose from the dead, and His spirit was poured out on Pentacost, then we should be manifesting a living faith, full of good works. We are worshiping a mans death. We see him as a babe in the manger or a dead man hanging on a cross. Its time to bury Him and let Him prove Himself as a living Spirit in our lives.

I feel sad for the people who need the reminder of the horrid death of Jesus on the cross to believe in the Spirit of Love, Peace and Joy. Or is it a distraction?

Paul said the Cross was a stumbling block to the Jews. Good ole Paul, always thinking ahead of how he could force condemnation upon the masses that would debunk his lies.

Im not sure how leaving a rotting corpse on a cross for 2,000 years glorifies a living God. And my feeling is that Yeshua being a Jew would be greatly offended by not burying the imaging of His dead body for 2,000 years.




posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Basically any kind of images are banned through the words of the old testament. Just like every other group, religious worshipers will always find a way to justify why their own rules don't apply to them. This hypocritical behavior is why I have no faith even though grades 1-12 were spent in Catholic schools. By the sixth grade I knew that organized religion was nothing but lies and control. The church is the antichrist.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 09:43 AM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
a reply to: NavyDoc

Basically any kind of images are banned through the words of the old testament. Just like every other group, religious worshipers will always find a way to justify why their own rules don't apply to them. This hypocritical behavior is why I have no faith even though grades 1-12 were spent in Catholic schools. By the sixth grade I knew that organized religion was nothing but lies and control. The church is the antichrist.



Meh, I don't see any objective evidence that there is a god at all.


However, one group sees one thing in a symbol (the sacrifice of their god, hence the crucifix) and the other sees something different (the Resurrection of their god, hence an empty cross) and both opinions seem valid and one not more "right" than the other.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

There were lots of Holderman Mennonites in and around where I grew up. They were so strict on the graven images that they did not even allow personal photographs in the home. There was a farm accident where one young man got his face disfigured. They could have reconstructed it with surgery except they had no photos of him to go on, so they reconstructed his face but had no way of knowing how close the original they actually got.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The sheep are utterly under control and utterly misled, that's a fact, but it's unfortunate that they will never be on equal footing with the shepherd, for there can only be one, whether he holds a bent cross or a straight one, it's easy to understand the lie, taxes and tithes are what sustains it.

As far as the cross is concerned I've always thought this was the case, if one follows what it's own religion has very easily defined, to take it any other way, also according to that established religion's own word is "blasphemous", so you can't have your cake and eat it too, you have to also think who created the cross as a method of crucifixion and decide for yourself how to interpret that motif.
I always vote for my most important, the kingdom of God is within you, it's not in any sanctuary, chapel, cathedral or house made with human hands or that had it's cornerstone hewn or laid with human hands, it's far beyond that or is it?


Luke 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

We know the usurpers of the overall ideology, turned it into a grandiose and still very well perpetrated fraud, go research the very words of Pope Leo X " How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us" -Doane's Bible Myths, p 438.






posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 10:28 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

In his quest to try to slam the Catholic tradition of having a crucifix in churches and homes to assist people with their meditations on the life of Christ, the OP quoted this ...

Exodus 20 - 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

But the OP failed to quote this from a few chapters later, where God Himself demands that images of holy Angels be put on the Ark of the Covenant.

Exodus 25:22 - “There, above the cover between the two cherubim that are over the ark of the Testimony, I will meet with you and give you all my commands for the Israelites.”

and this where God demands that Moses make an Image of a snake and raise it high over the heads of the Hebrews so when they looked up upon it they will be healed ...

Numbers 21:4-9, The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."

God has no problems with people making images, even images of holy things like Angels. In fact, He ordered some made. He has a problem with people worshipping images. Luckily Catholics don't believe Crucifixes are God so that isn't a problem.

Crucifixes are not worshipped as God. They are not graven images. They are the same as having a picture of a family member in the house to remember the family member by. Crucifixes are helpful with meditation and a good reminder of how Jesus suffered for us. There is nothing wrong with them.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The crucifix is a bridge to God. One time and one time only. Jesus is no longer there but right here right now.

Done deal....you cannot add nor take away from its pure power nor can you sin your way out once you claim it and get sealed. Trust me...you know when the Holy Spirit seals you. You finally understand what the word QUIET(peace) is as if being in a vacuum is like. You finally see why people do the things they do and have empathy and compassion for them, and you get attacked by the majority a whole bunch even the ones that know the Bible backwards and forward and appear to be of great stature and sound mind.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:04 AM
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I see people saying that the crucifix is only a reminder and not an idol. What does it remind you of exactly? Jesus DYING for our sins. It reminds you of death, and when someone's death is seen as salvation you idolize that death and are technically part of a death cult.

An image of Jesus hanging on a cross is an image of death not life, no matter what form it comes in, whether in thought or material form.

Again, what do Christians think of when they think of God's image? Jesus dying on the cross. This is a graven (dead) image. When you think of the image of God you should think of light because that's what Jesus (the image) refers to himself as, the light of the world. Death is the absence of light.

What do we see the world through? An image of light created by the eyes/brain. It is the light of the world, it is the true image and it is life.

Thanks for all of your replies, but I see my post has been misunderstood. It's not about carved statues, that's only a minor point I was making, the major point is the "image" people see when thinking of God's image, that of Jesus dead on the cross.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Thanks for your reply.

Jesus hanging on a cross is nothing like family photos in my opinion, unless of course you have pictures of dead family members.

Would a picture of a dead family member make you happy or sad? If it would make you sad then why is it different for Jesus? Jesus dying in the way he did should not bring joy to anyone but Christians see it as the best thing that had ever happened.

I used to believe the same but looking back now I see no rationality in it.
edit on 2/10/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




This thread is more about the image people think of when they think of God's image, which is Jesus on the cross, not about crucifixes in churches. I probably should have made that more clear. The image that pops into the head is of sacrifice and death, hence graven image.


I think its silly for you to say what people think of when they think of God's image...all the Christians I know will tell you Adam and eve were in the image of God, we carry Adam's fallen version of that image. So around my area thats not what pops into peoples head when they hear the image of God.

Genesis 5

When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created.

3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.




Matthew 9 13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Jesus desired mercy and not sacrifice, he received no mercy while he was sacrificed. Jesus' sacrifice for sins seems to be the opposite of what Jesus said he desired.


I think you are missing some information here. Lucifer when he rebelled with a third of the angels made an accusation towards God. You see Lucifer's goal was to show YHWH is not perfect and therefore not God. So Lucifer accused God of being unable reconcile with his rebellious creatures(Including Humans, himself and other angels). You see Lucifer wagered that God could not reconcile with rebellious creatures without God's perfect righteousness or his perfect mercy. God's answer to this accusation was Jesus Christ. Christ came to do the will of the Father which was to offer us a choice. Mercy or Righteousness. This is why Christ says "I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Sinners are the ones who need mercy and forgiveness because we are rebellious Christ is our reconciliation with God. The answer to the problem.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

If they think of Adam and Eve as the image then they have clearly not read the NT because it says Jesus is the image, not Adam and Eve.

And no, it's not silly if it's true.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: Rex282



This is also idolatry and not truth.You are not within me and I most certainly not in you those are “your” image imaginations of your mind which are just as incorrect as the the one Christians have of their Jesus.


If you are not in me then how can I see you? Is your body not created within my mind as an image? When you look at me and I look at you, we ARE within each other because the image of our bodies in created WITHIN each others minds. We are created IN God's image, we are created IN the image we see of ourselves. What you see is an image WITHIN the brain, so anything you see is technically within you.

What did Jesus mean by us being in him and him being in us? Was he wrong as you say I am? Because I'm saying the exact same thing as he was.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 12:09 PM
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IMO, the reason that Death on the Cross has become such a religious Icon is because, it was the symbol of how much Christ paid, and it is a reminder that we must also sacrifice until it hurts or death.

Now please pass the collection plate, and remember how much Christ gave for you, when you write your check. He gave his life for the church, now you must give your life for the Church.

Its about reminding us to Sacrifice, everything for the Church.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: misskat1

Exactly, lol. God can't keep his institution running without money. Even an all-powerful God has to pay his bills.


Religion is nothing more than a ponzi scheme to take money from your pocket and power from within yourself. Why think of yourself as a good person when you can say you're evil at heart and then pay those who taught you that? I mean, they do have the solution to the problem they presented to you so better pay up!



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

One of the saddest things (and this has been true for me) is that, the whole mind set of Sacrificing everything, is what has kept us from the true blessings of the God Spirit. The attitude of give everything. Has left nothing. This mind set has kept people from even being able to create a good life for themselves.

The God I know, wants His energy to provide, protect, love, etc, but our own world view has gotten in the way. One of the most tragic loss of ourselves has been the mind set of Sacrificing unto death, we are taught to mimic a 2,000 yr old rotting corpse. And we deny the power of the living God.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Your OP is accurate and correct.

You shall not make any image representing God or Jesus Christ. I ask those who claim it is not a symbol (idol) one question: If Jesus was killed via guillotine, would Christians wear a golden guillotine around their necks too?

One very important thing to add:


Stauros (σταυρός) is the Greek word, usually translated in English as "cross" in scripture, that in the New Testament names the device on which Jesus was executed.

In the Homeric and classical periods, it denoted an upright pale, pole, or stake , but by the time that Symbol was adopted in Catholicism (Constantine) , it came to include a crossbeam.


Did you catch that. The device Jesus was killed upon was an upright pole or stake (single piece of wood) NOT a CROSS (two pieces of wood crossed)!

Now research the pagan symbolism of a "cross", how far back in time it goes, what it represents; and you will begin to understand EXACTLY why the cross is an IDOL; and why Constantine (pagan "sun" emperor of Rome) used that symbol to hijack the religion practiced by the true followers of Christ (Church of God) living in the Roman empire at the time of his reign.

God Bless,



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




If they think of Adam and Eve as the image then they have clearly not read the NT because it says Jesus is the image, not Adam and Eve


And you are clearly jumping back and forth between the visible image of the invisible God(Jesus) and the image of God(likeness of man to God).

From OP:


You are the truth, the way, and the LIFE. You are God's image, that of light.


Your are changing Christ words with this new age ideology.....John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." We are made in a broken image of God and that they are not the truth the way or the life. Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God to that we can agree.

I would really love to continue you but I realy don't want to misunderstand you in anyway. I would be very interested in a thread of yours that explains your beliefs to the fullest extent possible



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I'm not changing his words, only drawing out their meaning. Do you agree that Jesus is the light of the world? If so then you agree that we are him because:


Matthew 5
14 You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.


Do you believe Jesus is the bread of life? If so then you agree we are as well because:


1 Corinthians 10
17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.


We are the one loaf of bread, the bread of life, a.k.a. Jesus. We all share the one loaf and we are the loaf.

Where in the bible does it differentiate between the image of the invisible God and the image we are made in? If our image is broken then wouldn't that also mean God's Is too since it is his image that we're made in?

Where does it differentiate between the two?



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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There is an interesting story when in 1966 football, North Korea got into the semi finals above Italy. So they had to stay in a catholic retreat (where the Italians were expected to stay). When they stayed they saw the full size picture of Jesus on the cross in all his gory - I did spell that right. So as people who had never come across Christianity before none of them could sleep that night because of this statue of person with nails attached to their wrists and ankles -it scared them. They actually thought that the statue was put into the hotel/retreat deliberately to scare them.

Food for thought.



posted on Feb, 10 2015 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: templar knight
There is an interesting story when in 1966 football, North Korea got into the semi finals above Italy. So they had to stay in a catholic retreat (where the Italians were expected to stay). When they stayed they saw the full size picture of Jesus on the cross in all his gory - I did spell that right. So as people who had never come across Christianity before none of them could sleep that night because of this statue of person with nails attached to their wrists and ankles -it scared them. They actually thought that the statue was put into the hotel/retreat deliberately to scare them.

Food for thought.


LOL. Yes, Italian and Spanish and Portuguese religious art can be "intense." Was in a hotel in Portugal a few years back and even I was taken aback by the bloody crucifixion artwork on the wall.



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