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Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry

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posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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originally posted by: Punisher75
I have heard the cross was a stake thing in the past I think it was the Jehovah Witnesses thing.
You heard the truth before? God loves you, and sees something in you. How did you respond?




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 12:36 AM
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originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: GoShredAK
What about a cross without Jesus on it? Basically as a sign of respect, not Idol worship? Any thoughts there?

Protestants do this; for the reason you expressed.


Well, apparently I have Protestant tendencies. I'm such a religious mutt it's insane.

You might be a PRO-TEST-ANT and have a problem with religious DOG-MUTT.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 01:42 AM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: GoShredAK
What about a cross without Jesus on it? Basically as a sign of respect, not Idol worship? Any thoughts there?

Protestants do this; for the reason you expressed.


Well, apparently I have Protestant tendencies. I'm such a religious mutt it's insane.

You might be a PRO-TEST-ANT and have a problem with religious DOG-MUTT.


I'm PRO at living my life, this life which is but a TEST, in the grand scheme I am an ANT.

Dogma is a problem I am trying to shake for sure.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The title of this thread is only my opinion, everything else I propose is also only my opinion, so please try not to get offended, my opinion is no greater than yours.


Exodus 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


God tells us not to make any graven images of him, graven literally means "of the nature of the grave", meaning death. God is saying do not make an image of death in place of his true image, which is what we are made in. The link in my signature goes into detail about that aspect of my theory.



I have not read the whole thread yet so i guess this was already covered.

I think you are wrong about the term “graven” and its use perhaps both present times and ancient times.

Now let us examine this part:



Exodus 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


Here is the part where your interpretation goes awry:

“or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”

How would you explain - or in the earth and water under the earth?



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: iNobody

Your posts are really offensive to pagans. Just because Christianity came in and stole or "borrowed" pagan imagery, doesnt mean that pagans worshipped demons. If you want respect for your own religion, you should give it to others. It's such a bigoted mindset, i'm a Christian so i can insult everybody elses religions.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 05:09 AM
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originally posted by: iNobody

originally posted by: Punisher75
I have heard the cross was a stake thing in the past I think it was the Jehovah Witnesses thing.
You heard the truth before? God loves you, and sees something in you. How did you respond?


I did not respond to anyone in particular if that is what you mean, cause the folks at the Watchtower Bible and Tract society folks don't seem to ever come to my door to try to persuade me to head out to the Kingdom Hall.
However I have done a bit of research on the JW's and their beliefs. I remember looking into the whole cross thing and have my doubts as to the confident assertions they have made concerning the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. (Or Michael the Archangel as they apparently understand him if I remember correctly.)
The main reason for this is because from what I have been able to tell is while yes in fact crucifixion was sometimes done on a pole/stake it was also done on a "T" shaped structure as well as an "X" shaped structure. So in short I am not exactly certain about 2 things.
1.) Where the evidence is for which form Christs Crucifixion took.
2.) Why it matters so much to them.
I am sure I read it at some point but it has been awhile since I researched the group.

edit on 12-2-2015 by Punisher75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 06:26 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Hello

In my opinion, I agree.

I have nothing against Catholics, just a lot that is Catholicism. Personally, it's a false system based and Babylonian mysteries and I believe that the crucifix is just the cross of Tammuz with Jesus depicted upon it. In essence I'm saying its satans trophy saying look what I did. Look at this tiny victory. He is mocking. Obviously it's really a victory for Christ but he's having his moment.

turtullian said to pagans

The origin of your gods is derived from figures Moulded on a cross.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: iNobody

Your posts are really offensive to pagans. Just because Christianity came in and stole or "borrowed" pagan imagery, doesnt mean that pagans worshipped demons. If you want respect for your own religion, you should give it to others. It's such a bigoted mindset, i'm a Christian so i can insult everybody elses religions.


That makes sense. I guess if I was a pagan and was told that the gods that I worshipped were really fallen angels and I had no clue of the truth I would be offended. Especially if those demons were around me and influenced me in everything I did.

It takes a truly humble person to realize that their world-view may not be all that it appears to be. And that is why only the humble can approach. Those who reflect attitudes of their gods, which are haughty, disdainful, even hateful toward mankind, will think and act like them.

(1 Corinthians 10:20) . . .No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Punisher75

Everything else about Christendom and its rites and holidays are borrowed from pagan traditions and sources. Why wouldn't this be? The cross, since long before Jesus, was used in pagan worship to demon gods. Why does it matter that it was grafted into apostate Christianity? I guess because of this:

(1 Corinthians 10:20-22) . . .No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. 21 You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons. 22 Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?

If something that we think is normal is actually displeasing to God, and we can discern that, does it not make sense, if you want to please him, to stop doing that thing? I realize not all want to please God, in fact very few people do....


(2 Corinthians 6:17) . . .‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’”

There are standards of cleanliness and holiness one must reach to approach the living God. He is understanding and very forgiving. No doubt most people who carry on uncleanliness do not realize it. And many, like the commenter that said that it is bigotry to mention the truth that pagans worship demons, are completely in the dark. They are to be pitied.

When I see the truth and how these people respond I just want to help them open their eyes so much. I realize I cannot do that on my own, but what knowledge I do have I will try to share, out of love. But the web of deception that has been weaved over their eyes is so great it would take a miracle, and act of God to remove it. And I realize that only his spirit is able to accomplish this feat. And I have seen God's holy spirit operate upon people who are rightly disposed for everlasting life when given the truth.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: iNobody




How many people who lost loved ones in the Columbine shootings go around wearing symbols of the weapons that killed their loved ones. Or how many people who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks go around wearing airplanes as the symbol of their murder? The idea to wear a symbol that was the object of the murder of someone you care about is ludicrous and disgusting, in my eyes.


Bad analogies. Those were all tragedies. The death and resurrection of Christ was His victory.




edit on 12-2-2015 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

You ever notice how the most immoral filthy people are usually the ones that flaunt the cross on their chest with a necklace the most?




posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: iNobody




You ever notice how the most immoral filthy people are usually the ones that flaunt the cross on their chest with a necklace the most?


Non sequitur.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 05:38 PM
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The so called "Heretic" Pharaoh Akhenaten of the 18th dynasty closed down the temples of his day and sent the Amun priests home ... accusing them of worshipping "Graven Images" and performing "Magic" ... The Amun priesthood worshipped statues of their God Amun ( A made up god ) ... the reference to Magic meaning Trickery ... i.e. fooling people with mumbo jumbo ritual.

He would no doubt turn in his tomb to know such practices would be reincarnated ... if they could find his tomb that is ... some things never change ... Please do not get me wrong I am not anti Christian by any means and have several Christian friends whom I can have deep conversations with ... To be Christian does not require a priest or symbols or church
edit on 12-2-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo

edit on 12-2-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-2-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: iNobody
a reply to: Punisher75

Everything else about Christendom and its rites and holidays are borrowed from pagan traditions and sources. Why wouldn't this be? The cross, since long before Jesus, was used in pagan worship to demon gods. Why does it matter that it was grafted into apostate Christianity?


Firstly I want you to understand that I am not trying to be confrontational in a rude way at all here. From what I can gather you are using the New World Translation, implying that you are a Jahovahs Witness, and we very likely have a number of things that we might disagree with as it concerns God, our eschatology, the Concept of the Trinity, etc
I am going to try to parse out the statement quoted and see if you can follow where I am going.

"Everything else about Christendom and its rites and holidays are borrowed from pagan traditions and sources."

I assume you are talking about the early Catholic practice of combining early Jewish/Christian Feast days with those of the non Catholic community around them? If so it is important to keep in mind two things;

1.) Christ did not forbid Christians from having holidays, what he did was deliver man from having to observe them as a "work" of the faithful.

2.) That being said this shows how much importance God places on Feast Days and Celebrations after the Crucifixion of Christ. In Short... very little.
This I think is why the early Church, was so willing to combine old feast days with those of the non Christian communities around them.
Basically it was a missionary tool, to demonstrate that you can still enjoy the "fun" of celebrations, and be able to come to Christ. In short they said, something like.... "Oh you are used to not having to work on such and such day? Well we used to have a feast day around that time when we were under the Law so if that's all that is keeping you from Christ then fine take the day off, and think about Christ instead of your Old God."
After all why not? It was no sweat off the Christians nose because for them it used to be considered a "Work".

Why wouldn't this be? The cross, since long before Jesus, was used in pagan worship to demon gods. Why does it matter that it was grafted into apostate Christianity?

Firstly the Question I think is not "Why wouldn't this be", but rather "Why would it necessarily be". We have mentioned in this thread that the Crucifixion methods used by the Romans came in 3 major forms, the Stake as you mentioned the "T" shape as well as the "X" Shape. We still have yet to determine with any certainty at all which form this crucifixion took. What we have done it seems to me is fall into the logical fallacy of Affirming the Consequent.

Secondly The Shape of the "T" and the "X" are pretty simple shapes so it is no wonder why they would be used by a number of different groups. Its easy to make and easy to craft.



posted on Feb, 12 2015 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


drevill: Hello
In my opinion, I agree.
I have nothing against Catholics, just a lot that is Catholicism. Personally, it's a false system based and Babylonian mysteries and I believe that the crucifix is just the cross of Tammuz with Jesus depicted upon it.

What is your interest here; nothing regarding the individual; just those persons that believe the Catholic dogma.

drevill: In essence I'm saying its satans trophy saying look what I did. Look at this tiny victory. He is mocking. Obviously it's really a victory for Christ but he's having his moment.
turtullian said to pagans.
The origin of your gods is derived from figures Moulded on a cross.

Satan's trophy ONLY if you believe (in another false dogmatic system) this kingdom of his exists. What is your belief system that says Satan is a player?









edit on 12-2-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 04:24 AM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

Hello

My apologies. I have an illness and at times My head goes to pot and doesn't work well. Would you mind asking me what you are asking in moron speak. Today is not a good day but I don't want to not reply

Cheers



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Jesus on the cross is a graven image and idolatry


Yes, isn't it lovely?!?



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 07:12 AM
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a reply to: drevill

The guy who calls himself vethumanbeing is anything but human. He is a notorious eternally-drunk-ranting stalker troll. Nothing but slime and mucus in his wakes I'm afraid. A most detestable thing. Haters will hate and don't feed the trolls.
edit on 13-2-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 09:24 AM
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Cheers



posted on Feb, 13 2015 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I am christian, and no where in my church or any of its thousands of chapels will you find a cross. My religion is no spawn off the catholic church, or any other denomination either. It is a full restoration of the originial church of Jesus Christ, the same organization he set up himself. If it went by another name, it would be that persons/place/things church. Some say we are not Christians. We do not believe that the personage of God is in the form of the trinity. Grace saves us but our works determine when we accept that grace.
When the events that lead to the second coming begin, our millions of members around the world will rise, and protect humanity and freedom.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have served a mission, and I have been married in the temple. My happiness in life and purpose are directly associated with my service in the Church. We do not worship a cross, we worship God the Father, and his son Jesus Christ.




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