Walmart, Target and others under fire over supplements

Yeah, accurate labeling is essential. I prefer that what I get at the store is what the label shows it is. There should be an extensive overhaul of the product inspection side of the industry.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Neo of course won't mention that regulations can and do stop this BS all over the world - but that would require "big government".

Nice potshot.

I guess someone missed the op where that 'big government', and regulations didn't do SNIP.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

ATS members, I am posting this thread which was written by a respected member who has now passed away, so please post accordingly.

www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=

Here is another.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Take a look at these and see the government and FDA is damned if they do and damned if they don't. I actually though Codex had been implemented............ I will go look around.

Other links from the FA's thread:

There've been plenty of great threads on the codex:

Codex Alimentarius (Mandate That Will Starve 3 Billion People to be In Place by 12/31/09)


HELLO? Codex Alimentarius? This December 31st people!

Article: NUTRICIDE: The Killing Camps of Codex Alimentarius

Codex Alimentarius has begun, right on schedule

Codex Alimentarius Summarized in 7 Points

Wait, all those links are dead. Let me try something.............

Nope. Still dead, but I think they are working links on his thread.

Here's the deal. When all this was going on, I was taking like, Sundown Milkthistle, a cheap brand from K-mart or somewhere. It's the only supplement that I could actually see/feel a difference, and I thought I needed it. (It cleanses the liver. My hero, Ben Franklin, took it every day of his life.)

Anyway, a bottle of it was like, $8.00 but it was very effective. About a year ago, I went to buy some more, same place, same brand. The bottle was the same, but it now cost $17.00.

I thought "uh-oh. The FDA has been through it so now it cost more". So, I bought it anyway, and I can tell you. I knew after taking it the next day, it did absolutely nothing. Nada. Totally ineffective.

No, I don't know what it means.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
What gives the New York AG the authority to order anything? I believe that it is the FDA's job to handle things like this.

It was in his job description. Hence, he kind of had to.



I hope this helps to clear it up.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration requires companies to verify that their products are safe and properly labeled for their contents, but unlike drugs, supplements do not undergo the agency's rigorous evaluation process, which scrutinizes everything about the drug—from the design of clinical trials to the severity of side effects to the conditions under which the drug is manufactured.

If the producers of herbal supplements fail to identify all the ingredients on a product’s label, a consumer with food allergies, or who is taking medication for an unrelated illness, is taking a potentially serious health risk every time a contaminated herbal supplement is ingested. The Attorney General's investigation is focused on potential violations of New York's General Business Law and Executive Law, including deceptive practices and deceptive advertising.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
Millions of people are going to find out what "Placebo Effect" really means...

That was my thought also!

a reply to: JIMC5499
The FDA says it's up to the manufacturers and distributors to make sure they are selling what is on the product label, so how would the FDA know if there was a substitution? Do they actually do any testing?

www.fda.gov...

FDA regulates both finished dietary supplement products and dietary ingredients. FDA regulates dietary supplements under a different set of regulations than those covering "conventional" foods and drug products. Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA):

Manufacturers and distributors of dietary supplements and dietary ingredients are prohibited from marketing products that are adulterated or misbranded. That means that these firms are responsible for evaluating the safety and labeling of their products before marketing to ensure that they meet all the requirements of DSHEA and FDA regulations.

FDA

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration requires companies to verify that their products are safe and properly labeled for their contents, but unlike drugs, supplements do not undergo the agency's rigorous evaluation process, which scrutinizes everything about the drug—from the design of clinical trials to the severity of side effects to the conditions under which the drug is manufactured.

So as far as the FDA is concerned, if it's safe for you, they're cool. It could be ground up wood inside the pill. If it's safe for your body, they could care less.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

...

Yeah, this is crazy. Saw this in the NY Times this morning. 4/5 supplements, FOUR out of FIVE, were found to not have exactly what they said they were supposed to!! And some were "leading brands!"

....

Which brand names? It would be far more valuable to have a list of the brands than anything else. They weren't listed in the linked article.

originally posted by: [post=18960553]neo96


Nice potshot.

thank you - I thought so.

I guess someone missed the op where that 'big government', and regulations didn't do SNIP.

Well I certainly missed that in regard to supplements - I can see how someone might have missed where truth in advertising laws are useful useful tools for getting some truth in advertising.

But if you think there should be no law requiring truth in advertising, and support free market lies then why not just say so?? And if you do not support that then what is your point?

Why do we not get the name of the manufacturers rather than the retail outlets? This is nuts. The retail outlets aren't in the business of testing their products. This would be like finding a bad batch of birth control pills being sold by several chains and blaming the retailer for the failure of the product. Who is making and distributing faulty products?
Why would the AG do such a bone-headed thing as put something like this out that appears to blame the retail outlets. Why not name the companies involved in the scam? Exactly whose "insert supplement here" didn't have proper labeling? What was the brand name? Nature's Bounty? SunShine? Herb's Herbs?
The FDA doesn't have the authority to test the supplements for effectiveness but they do have the authority to make sure the labels are correct in regard to contents, I believe. The sad fact is, they have a definite bias against natural remedies that can't be patented because they are an entire bureaucrazy comprised of people from the world of Big Pharma and the Medical Industrial Complex. Natural remedies scare the dollar signs clear out of their beady little eyes.

originally posted by: Anyafaj
So as far as the FDA is concerned, if it's safe for you, they're cool. It could be ground up wood inside the pill. If it's safe for your body, they could care less.

Yes, adding unlabeled sawdust fillers may violate FDA regulations, but it's unclear how they would ever find out about it. The FDA isn't mentioned in the story so I'm not assuming they did any testing, though the NY attorney general's office may have notified or otherwise copied the FDA on the correspondence they sent to the retailers.

originally posted by: diggindirt
Why do we not get the name of the manufacturers rather than the retail outlets? This is nuts. The retail outlets aren't in the business of testing their products. This would be like finding a bad batch of birth control pills being sold by several chains and blaming the retailer for the failure of the product. Who is making and distributing faulty products?

Good questions, I'd like to know what brands were a problem also, some retailers even have store brands. As you know many things are sourced overseas and if this is the case (which it almost certainly is with some supplements), the attorney general may have no direct course of action against the manufacturer, who not being located in the state of New York isn't subject to the laws of that state. So they go after who they can, the retailer who is located in NY and who is subject to those laws. If it's a store brand, only the retailer may know which manufacturer they came from as they don't always include that information on the store brand label.

originally posted by: neo96
Try Amazon, and read the reviews.

Bout the only thing one can do.

Is there any reason to think someone writing a review on Amazon knows more about whether the contents of the product match the label than I do? The other reviewers would probably also be reluctant to spend $150 to test a $10 bottle of supplements, so they probably wouldn't do that, so exactly how would the reviews help? That I know they at least got a placebo effect from taking sawdust or other fillers?

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Anyafaj
So as far as the FDA is concerned, if it's safe for you, they're cool. It could be ground up wood inside the pill. If it's safe for your body, they could care less.

Yes, adding unlabeled sawdust fillers may violate FDA regulations, but it's unclear how they would ever find out about it. The FDA isn't mentioned in the story so I'm not assuming they did any testing, though the NY attorney general's office may have notified or otherwise copied the FDA on the correspondence they sent to the retailers.

Actually it would not violate the FDA. You will find wood in a lot of your food, including your cereals. Just look for the ingredient cellulose. Yummy wood! The termites enjoy it, so the FDA decided, we should to!

Yum, yum, yum, Deliciouso!

15 companies that put wood in your food

a reply to: Arbitrageur
Yes, this thread sent me to look at the labels on my supplements. I find that Nature's Bounty has no country of manufacture on the label. Only the things I buy that are locally compounded say "Made in the USA." I know that at one time the label of Nature's Bounty had "Made in USA" on it because I carefully checked each supplement. I hadn't checked in quite some time however.
I'd be very interested to see the original complaint that caused this AG to go checking these things out.

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

Actually it would not violate the FDA. You will find wood in a lot of your food, including your cereals. Just look for the ingredient cellulose.

I said unlabeled wood would be a violation. You said no it wouldn't, just look for it on the label. One of us is missing something.

originally posted by: diggindirt
I find that Nature's Bounty has no country of manufacture on the label.

That's a bit unsettling to not have any idea where it was manufactured, to me, but I'm not sure that violates any labeling laws. If they misrepresented the country of origin then it would.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Not saying it isn't true

But this could be attack on supplements by big pharma aided by government branches

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Anyafaj

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

Actually it would not violate the FDA. You will find wood in a lot of your food, including your cereals. Just look for the ingredient cellulose.

I said unlabeled wood would be a violation. You said no it wouldn't, just look for it on the label. One of us is missing something.

That will teach me to get insomnia and post late at night. LOL

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Let's not forget that there are efforts at high levels of the healthcare industry and government to disuade folks from using supplements to improve health as it cuts into profits from prescription drugs. I'm not saying there's no such thing as counterfeit vitamins, but just keep that in mind when you read stories like this.

I'm so proud of the FEW people who are skeptical about this report. This is ATS folks, don't blindly believe anything. I'm not sure how these herbs were tested, but the response apparently was 'you didn't test them right'. Which is entirely possible in my opinion. Would there be plant DNA left in the end product after processing? I don't know, do you?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I used to work in H&B for three years, fully qualified Advanced Product Adviser and trust me, they are throwing nothing but crap into their supplements. I had to leave on moral grounds after I found out they were bought out in 2011 by the Carlyle Group (do a little research on them, nearly 100% sure I found ties to Monsanto).

They have so many fillers in their products and even though they claim to be GMO free I was never completely convinced I even had this argument with a head boss before I left. And really when you can buy one and get another for a penny what do you think is going into the supplements? They couldn't even tell me where the fish oils come from... farms create too much mercury in the oil then if they come from the sea people wanted to know was it from the Pacific after Fukushima and they couldn't tell me. They dont even sell the most absorbable forms of calcium/magnesium because its cheaper to produce than the one thats better for you. Please shop somewhere else! You'll be doing yourself a favour. I like the brand Terra Nova or Nature's Aid.

Just throwing this out there. On my local news this morning, 2/4, they were reporting on this. The mentioned three times that this affected the "store brands" of the supplements. I know Walgreens, GNC and CVS have store brands. I guess Wal-Mart would be Equate. I'm not sure if they all get them from the same manufacturer or what. Just relaying what I heard on local news.

originally posted by: CactusJim
Just throwing this out there. On my local news this morning, 2/4, they were reporting on this. The mentioned three times that this affected the "store brands" of the supplements. I know Walgreens, GNC and CVS have store brands. I guess Wal-Mart would be Equate. I'm not sure if they all get them from the same manufacturer or what. Just relaying what I heard on local news.

Most no name brand foods, or supplements in this case, are packaged at the factory, right next to the high priced item, they are just labeled in a different area. There was a half hour show on packaging once on How'd They Make That or some such nonsense show. I happened to be watching the show before it and was too lazy to change the channel.