New Orleans Passes Extensive Smoking Ban

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Which do you think would be more conducive to individual freedom. Laws that outright ban smoking indoors, or laws that require establishments that allow indoor smoking to have air filtration units that prevent any smoke/irritants from leaving the building?

I get where you are coming from, but these laws are one sided and they take away one side's freedoms to protect the freedoms of the other side. There is a happy medium, but it seems many do not want to compromise because they want to win.

I do use a vape pen, but I am not allowed to use them inside in my state (as i stated in my post). I am forced to go outside with the cigarette smokers if i want to hit my vape.

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Which do you think would be more conducive to individual freedom. Laws that outright ban smoking indoors, or laws that require establishments that allow indoor smoking to have air filtration units that prevent any smoke/irritants from leaving the building?

They are both drains on individual freedom. One inhibits a person's individual freedom and the other inhibit's a business' individual freedom. One is completely free for the individual being inhibited and the other comes with a price tag for the individual being inhibited (which will then be passed onto the consumer). Seeing as how smoking is a choice that one makes, the bar shouldn't be held accountable for the choices of its patrons. You make the choice to smoke, you go stand outside. It doesn't cost you any money anyways.

I get where you are coming from, but these laws are one sided and they take away one side's freedoms to protect the freedoms of the other side. There is a happy medium, but it seems many do not want to compromise because they want to win.

Smoking is a CHOICE! It isn't a something you are born doing. You make the choice to smoke and when you choose to do so, it comes with its consequences, and yes some of those are societal consequences. Don't cry to me because other people are unhappy you are making them ill with your choice. Go outside.

I do use a vape pen, but I am not allowed to use them inside in my state (as i stated in my post). I am forced to go outside with the cigarette smokers if i want to hit my vape.

Then go outside. Fresh air never killed anyone.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Yes I really really did decide to compare smoking laws with JIM CROW laws

Divisions within society can be based on many many reasons. Are you implying that the only victims of harrassment and discrimination are black people? Really did you just say that?

When Jim Crow laws were passed, there were not intended to harm negro people - why no, not at all. No one ever stated that the purpose of the separating black people from white people was to harass and harm negro people. What could ever make you think such a thing. Jim Crow laws were passed to prevent negro people from seeing the kind of life that white people lived and protecting them from having to feel jealousy or shame!

of course we both know that in fact, Jim Crow laws were directly intended to ensure that the negro kept his place in a white man's world.

Like Jim Crow laws, the stated purpose of smoking laws is not to harass and harm smokers but rather to "protect" the innocent lungs of the master race from the dirty, evil smokers, right down to never having to be exposed to a molecule of third hand smoke on a smoker's clothing. As a matter of fact, the whole thing has become so absurd as to call into question anything ever said by the anti-smoking campaign.

Smokers are denied jobs, health care that they pay for, places to live and control over their own home.

You say all I have to do is quit smoking. Would you have suggested to a light-coloured negro that all that they have to do to avoid the Jim Crow laws is to "pass for white"??

Why should I have to quit smoking to take my rightful place in society and have the right to peaceful assembly guaranteed to me by the constitution? Why would you suggest such a thing! Am I breaking the law by being a smoker?

Explain to me why I should have to conform to claim my rights under the constitution?

Are you suggesting that someone who wears a turban, only has to take it off, to claim health care benefits.

What the hell??????? Who has the right to make such demands on me. If I am not allowed to make personal lifestyle choices, should I not equally have the right to demand the right to control the personal choices of others.

What kind of country are you suggesting we all live in, where we must all conform to peer pressure under demand and on threat of losing our constitution rights and the things like healthcare that we pay for?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You want fresh air - YOU GO OUTSIDE! You have no right to impose your demands on someone elses private property. Whether or not to allow smoking and whether or not to invest in improving ventalation to reasonale standards is also a personal choice and it is for the property owner to make that choice - NOT YOU!

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You want fresh air - YOU GO OUTSIDE! You have no right to impose your demands on someone elses private property. Whether or not to allow smoking and whether or not to invest in improving ventalation to reasonale standards is also a personal choice and it is for the property owner to make that choice - NOT YOU!

Tired of Control Freaks

Actually I do have the right to do that since you are negatively affecting me. Your rights end as soon as you start negatively affecting my health. At that point I will voice my concern. You go outside, you smoke your cancer, then you can come back inside. It's not going to kill you to be a little inconvenienced for making the choice to smoke. Choices come with consequences.

I would never demand that cigarettes be banned (it is after all your choice to kill yourself with them), but I will NOT tolerate your cancer sticks giving me cancer if I haven't made that choice myself. I don't give a damn if you are inconvenienced for being forced outside. Apparently you are too selfish to care about the health of others. Go learn about personal rights, your knowledge of them is severely lacking. It's not like it costs you anything to go outside either.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I am not sure if you are intentionally ignoring my point, or if I am failing to explain myself sufficiently.

On what grounds does the government have the ability to prevent a business owner from choosing to open a bar that allows smoking inside, if they have air filtration units that prevent the smoke from affecting anyone outside of the establishment?

By blanket banning smoking indoors they are infringing on the rights of the business owner who would choose to open such a business and they are infringing on the rights of the individual who would choose to frequent such an establishment, all in the name of protecting the freedoms of other individuals who would not be affected in any way if the business owner took steps to filter the air before it left the building.

I get that you dislike smoking, but trying to prevent other people from doing something you dislike is not freedom.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The only right you have on someone else's property is to follow their rules or get out. All you have to do is read a sign that says whether smoking is allowed or not.

If the property owner says I can smoke on his property - it is YOUR responsibility to protect YOUR health by not entering into someone elses property!!!! You have no right to stick your nose in the chimney and decide that the chimney must not exist because it is "harming" your health.

What an entitled attitude you have.

With your reasoning, I can walk into someone else's property (ie a rock bar) and demand that they play turn the sound down because the extreme noise is damaging my health.

Who do you think you are - a king or something that you can demand what other people can do on their own property.

Want clean air - step outside. As you say - its no big deal - if smokers can do easily and in complete comfort - SO CAN YOU!

Tired of Control freaks

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I am not sure if you are intentionally ignoring my point, or if I am failing to explain myself sufficiently.

On what grounds does the government have the ability to prevent a business owner from choosing to open a bar that allows smoking inside, if they have air filtration units that prevent the smoke from affecting anyone outside of the establishment?

Are hookah bars banned in your city? They aren't banned in mine. I have one a block down the street from where I live.

By blanket banning smoking indoors they are infringing on the rights of the business owner who would choose to open such a business and they are infringing on the rights of the individual who would choose to frequent such an establishment, all in the name of protecting the freedoms of other individuals who would not be affected in any way if the business owner took steps to filter the air before it left the building.

Filtration systems require maintenance and upkeep. What about the bars that fail to do this upkeep? There is just too much work to make sure such things are implemented properly. Like I said, you chose to smoke, you suffer your own consequences for making that choice.

I get that you dislike smoking, but trying to prevent other people from doing something you dislike is not freedom.

I'm not preventing you from smoking. I'm just making you do it somewhere other than inside a building. Once you finish, you can reenter the building.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Hookah bars are illegal in Ontario and even if they were legal - I would not attend. I smoke cigarettes - NOT hookah

a reply to: kosmicjack


I think the smoking ban is a farce.
It has totally destroyed social life for people in lots of ways.
Out of around forty to fifty pubs and social clubs in my area alone......there`s only about fifteen of them still open.

When people had to stand outside a pub or club to have a ciggy in all sorts of weather. It disrupted the whole evening.
I remember pubs would have " smokers bars or rooms ".
Why didn't they allow this to continue ?
The weekends at our social club would be full of people, with artists....singers, comedians etc on stage. Now they cant afford to pay for an artist because there`s nobody going out.
I feel for my grandkids. Besides never experiencing the freedoms I and those of my generation have lived. They won`t ever experience the nights out we were lucky to have.
The pub and club circuit is virtually dead for all these artists. The only singers will be the ones on these reality shows.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The only right you have on someone else's property is to follow their rules or get out. All you have to do is read a sign that says whether smoking is allowed or not.

The law is more absolute. Let's go with that. No smoking indoors.

If the property owner says I can smoke on his property - it is YOUR responsibility to protect YOUR health by not entering into someone elses property!!!! You have no right to stick your nose in the chimney and decide that the chimney must not exist because it is "harming" your health.

The government does though.

What an entitled attitude you have.

Yeah god forbid I want to sit in an establishment and not choke the whole time I am there all so someone killing himself can be comfortable while he does it...

With your reasoning, I can walk into someone else's property (ie a rock bar) and demand that they play turn the sound down because the extreme noise is damaging my health.

Seeing as how one has to pay to get into a concert venue, you've already made the choice to damage your ears when you entered the place. You even paid to do it. So apples and oranges.

Who do you think you are - a king or something that you can demand what other people can do on their own property.

Yea let's go with that. Now start addressing me with some respect.

Want clean air - step outside. As you say - its no big deal - if smokers can do easily and in complete comfort - SO CAN YOU!

Tired of Control freaks

The difference here being that you are only smoking (and therefore outside) for 5 minutes tops. I'm not going to sit outside all evening enjoying fresh air while my friends are in a smoky bar. Your comparison here is ridiculous.

Oh by the way, when bars were allowed to determine if smokers could smoke in their bars or not, they ALL let people smoke in them. The number of bars that didn't let people smoke in them was pretty much zero. So finding a bar that didn't let people smoke was excessively hard (it also makes a bar crawl impossible). So I stand by these laws. You can go cry outside about standing outside while you smoke. I don't care. That is the way things are and they aren't changing. Get used to it. Ciao.

a reply to: Krazysh0t


Laws can be repealed Krazyshot! and judging from the number of ordinary people who showed up to speak against smoking bans in New Orleans - its is very clear that these Jim Crow smoking bans are on their way OUT!

So stuff your entitled attitude where the sun don't shine!

The owner of a private property has the right to decide which customers they want to cater to and it is quite clear that people just don't want to socialize with Puritans on a Friday night!

Normal people don't go to bars expecting their health concerns to be catered to.

What is next - the government will decide on and approve menus in each restaurant so that "stick-up-their-butts" Puritans can go out for meal and be sure that they don't get to much salt, sugar or fat in their meal. And the rest of us can just suck up Kale or choose to eat at home?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes Hookah bars are prohibited in Seattle. Here is a link with a recent situation where they filed an injunction against two Seattle hookah bars.
Source

As far as a business owner failing to keep up with the maintenance on an air filtration unit, that business owner should be fined or shut down for failing to keep up with the responsibilities of running such a business. The same argument could be made for bars that serve minors. It is very possible for a bar to serve minors, but that is illegal and the business would be fined to hell and possibly shut down.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Florida passed those laws a long time ago and its AWESOME, but I'm not a smoker. Although even the smokers down here I know are actually happy with the law years later. Turns out they enjoy a nice meal without tasting or smelling like cigarettes.

I started travelling quite a bit sometime after this law was passed. I noticed that every time I went out of town that I would end up getting the worst head aches and my eyes were always red and itchy. Than I realised and associated my headaches and red eyes to places I travelled where it was still legal to smoke in restaurants and other social places. Sure enough when I visit facility with smokers the same thing happens to me.

The only problem is now smokers congregate in the entrances to buildings and outside dining . So you have to hold your breath going in and forget eating outside on a nice day with your kids.

a reply to: xDeadcowx

Well that it then - ventilation systems don't work in a bar to protect the health and safety of employees because they are to difficult and expensive to maintain!

Shut down every toll booth and mine - ventilation systems are too expensive and difficult to maintain! They can't possibly meet the standards required to protect someone's life from poisonous gases if they are too expensive to maintain to protect someones' health and safety from something that may or may not affect someone over a course of 50 years.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I don't believe other people smoking affects your health.
I think its a load of rubbish.
I seen some stats somewhere that said two in every eighty thousand people die from passive smoking.
Now I don't know if that's true but either way, in all my life I hardly know many that have died from smoking never mind passive smoking.
Also a high percentage of cancer sufferers actually die from complications caused by the chemo but that hardly gets a mention after death.
Both my parents smoked as did I and my siblings. We also had a coal fire for the first twenty years of my life.
None of us have had a smoke related illness at all.

Smoking is now classed as anti-social......
I believe the smoking ban is anti-social.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: kosmicjack

Florida passed those laws a long time ago and its AWESOME, but I'm not a smoker. Although even the smokers down here I know are actually happy with the law years later. Turns out they enjoy a nice meal without tasting or smelling like cigarettes.

I started travelling quite a bit sometime after this law was passed. I noticed that every time I went out of town that I would end up getting the worst head aches and my eyes were always red and itchy. Than I realised and associated my headaches and red eyes to places I travelled where it was still legal to smoke in restaurants and other social places. Sure enough when I visit facility with smokers the same thing happens to me.

The only problem is now smokers congregate in the entrances to buildings and outside dining . So you have to hold your breath going in and forget eating outside on a nice day with your kids.

With all due respect I cant believe smokers are happy with the law.
I also think you are going way over the top by saying you have to hold your breath going into these buildings and now you have ceased eating OUTSIDE on a nice day with your kids !
May I ask do you think smoking should also be banned outdoors ?

I find it hard that you have let this disrupt your life so much.
How did some people get through the day BEFORE the smoking ban came out ?

a reply to: lambros56

With all due respect I cant believe smokers are happy with the law.

Well , all I can tell you is what the smokers I know have told me. Now granted they are not your 5 pack a day smokers (Don't even now if that is alot) But they do smoke .

I also think you are going way over the top by saying you have to hold your breath going into these buildings and now you have ceased eating OUTSIDE on a nice day with your kids !

You can think anything you want, but I think you took my comment to literal about holding my breath , although I quickly enter the premise.

However , for the most part I have chosen to not eat outside in an area where there are lots of smokers with my kids. I don't care what you do to yourself, but I don't wan't my kids to smell or inhale cigarette smoke nor do I want to smell it while I eat.

In some cases where I was eating outside with my kids and some one lights a cigarette I have asked them politely if they would either move or please smoke in another area.

May I ask do you think smoking should also be banned outdoors ?

Yes in restaurants if they can't provide two isolated areas for smokers and non smokers, or in areas where there is a dense crowd of people.

I find it hard that you have let this disrupt your life so much.
How did some people get through the day BEFORE the smoking ban came out ?

You sound a like you need a smoke, there grouchy.

They got through the day inhaling some cancer , or dealing health issues .

I don't think its unreasonable to have smokers smoke together, nobody is banning smoking they are just making so it doesn't violates others right to not have smoke blown in their face ,which is known to be a health concern.

a reply to: interupt42

You may chose wherever you like. You may not, however, tell others that they cannot smoke on private property where the owner has given permission to smoke. It is not your property. I suggest you go to eat where smoking is prohibited by the owner.

As for your "we are not saying you can't smoke, we are just saying we don't want to be exposed". This sounded reasonable back in the 80s when anti's requested the first smoking ban on short trip plane rides.

Then it wasn't just short trip plane rides - it was all planes. Even planes from other countries were banned from using a US airport if they allowed smoking.

It sounded reasonable when anti-smokers said "they just wanted a non-smoking section in restaurants" - Then it was all restaurants and all bars.

In Ontario, its now all outdoor patios and playgrounds and sporting events and 25 meters from doorways.

Prohibition fast or Prohibition slow - the effect is always the same and Puritans have not yet learned their lesson.

Prohibition caused corruption of law enforcement and then underground bars and restaurants where smoking is allowed and tax evasion and violence.

I suggest you continue holding your breath as you pass by smokers. Then make sure and take a big gulping inhalation of that gasoline exhaust (I am sure its vitamin packed). Make sure and take the kiddies camping so that they can inhale loads of that wood smoke.

Get over yourself! Nobody believes anti-smokers anymore - you have all gotten so absurd. I am amazed that you are all still alive with the way you suffer in this world!

Tired of jControl Freaks

It starts with indoor bans, and now this:

About a week ago on the local radio talk channel they interviewed a homeowner whose home was overlooking S. Congress Ave in Austin. He was incensed at the smoke coming from a barbecue restaurant on S. Congress. He complained that if the wind was right his yard smelled like barbecue and that it also infiltrated his home with a smoke smell.

He had the health inspectors out to check the restaurant's smoke chimneys and they passed inspection but he felt he had to let the public know about this health hazard. It also brought up a discussion about burning wood in fireplaces in your home. I guess these are the next targets,

Note: I always find it funny when in a barbecue restaurant to see the most rabid anti smokers standing in the smoke and wow, they don't cough at all. But when they go outside and walk to their car passing me they cough and choke suddenly and give me mean looks even though I had blown the smoke away from them. It's in their head a lot of time imho.

ETA: So where does this end? Will people live in plastic bubbles for the perfect life for them? Perfect organic baby food for everyone in the world and "trust us, it's not soylent green". "Dogs carry too many diseases, they must not be kept in the home". "Food grown in your home garden is not safe to eat". "Show us your food card so that we know what we're allowed to serve you" "Don't think, just live as we say you should", "Don't question anything" etc, etc, etc . . .

Who are the Morlock's in this world? What's the end result? I suggest everyone read H.G. Wells, "The Time Machine" and actually think for yourself, these are the first steps of it getting out of hand.

STM