A letter from Iran supreme leader to the Youth in Europe and North America

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: LittleByLittle

You can define "corruption in a certain way" if you only read that verse...

Maybe you should look into other verses that do define it...
Such as spreading disorder among the land, or in others words tyrannical governance...

How about the verse immediately after?

Which says "Except those who repent before you overpower them. Then be sure that Allah is merciful & forgiving."


Don't cherry pick the Quran, that makes you no better than the Clerics & Mullahs who do the same to spread hatred.

Repent as in putting on the clothes/views of the one that is having a need to over power you with their view of god or being a true servant of the source being behind all the spiritual by works? There is duality in Quran and duality only causes separation in ism where there is no real need for separation.

To quote Bush: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.".

Same duality used by a corrupt man saying you have to join him to attack other corrupt men.

I am sorry if I do not think of Muhammed as a perfect teacher. I demand more from those who teach me about spiritual awareness and the source behind all. If you can use Muhammed as a teacher to find something I cannot then you can see something I cannot in his teachings. Good for you.

I am at the place where Paul and Muhammed gets rejected for Jesus, Buddha, Nanak and Rumi. Where the notion of duality gets rejected for non duality and all teachers of duality become unimportant since their trees (teachings) in the end do not offer good fruits on all levels of creation.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

This does not negate the reality

That 21st Century Terrorism by radicalized and ignorant Muslims
who are not the average Muslim (and the average Muslim is a good person)

will leave a horrific stain on the religion of Islam for eternity

whenever a Muslim tries to talk to non-believers about the good in their faith.


The Crusades did this to Christians, who are mostly good people.
(and most Christians at the time did not participate in)

This current
Terrorism which is 100% radicalized Muslims
who do horrific acts in the name of the religion of Muslim
in the name of converting everyone to Islam
will put an evil stain on Islam forever
which, like the crusades,
will cause people to say the religion
is hateful and not worthy of conversion.

a reply to: mideast

To understand my meme, you must first be programmed.

No.

There are approximately 1.6 billion muslims in the world.

From thinkprogress.org

Now of course they try to put this out in defense of Islam, but they fail at their goal.

The poll, conducted by the Pew Research Center, surveyed samples of the population from eleven majority Muslim countries — Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Palestinian territories, Senegal, Tunisia, and Turkey — asking about their views on Islamic extremism and the violence carried out in its name.

The results show that a median of 67 percent of those reached out to are either somewhat or very concerned about extremism in their countries. In some states, such as Lebanon and Tunisia, the number climbs above 70 percent. Turkey actually stands out as the only country polled where more than half of the those surveyed say they are not concerned about extremism.

Ok, so about 30% to, in some cases, 50% of muslims are not really concerned about islamic extremism. That's approximately 480 - 800 million that are ok with extremism. Not quite the "small handful" we are told about.

Support for suicide bombing has likewise plummeted throughout the Islamic world compared to past years. In Lebanon alone, the number of respondents who believed that suicide bombing is sometimes or often justified dropped from 74 percent in 2002 to 33 percent today. Pakistanis showed the least support for the tactic, with 89 percent of those surveyed opposed to its use in any circumstances.

Notice they only list those countries with the most unfavorable views. We can then assume the rest are at least above 33% favorable. If we assume an average of 33%, hell we'll say 25% to be generous, that's 400 million who are not against suicide bombing, give or take.

"For the most part, support for suicide bombing is not correlated with devoutness,” Pew wrote in its results. “Generally, Muslims who say they pray five times per day are no more likely to support targeting civilians to protect Islam than those who pray less often.

Translation: It's not only the super religious who support suicide bombing.

Now we all know polls can be exaggerated one way or another and the data can be interpreted to promote one side or another but if these numbers are even close to being accurate then it seems islam is a much bigger problem than many believe.

It's not just a tiny number of extremist making islam look bad. It's, even if you take the low side of these numbers, hundreds of millions of muslims who don't "view extremism unfavorably".

Also, keep in mind, these numbers only reflect those willing to admit to having extremist views. So maybe if his supreme Ayatollah would like the youth of the world to view islam more favorably he should clean his own house and tell his people of the religion of peace to practice what they preach.

Oh, yes ... yes.... I know, we invaded and made them that way. Please, the middle east has been a cesspool of war and violence for centuries. We didn't set them off. It's written into their religion to be violent.

a reply to: grandmakdw

This current Terrorism which is 100% radicalized Muslims

Hundreds of thousands murdered in the Crusade in Iraq, who had no involvement in 9/11, does negate the perception of reality...
Who were the Radicals in Iraq?
The same people Saddam Hussein kept from power for 2 decades until he was murdered by the West...

& your stats are False...
This was shown to you on the previous page by KrazyShot who showed you a source (as per your signature which you seem to be ignoring) that proves that 2% of terrorism is done by Muslims...

So where do you get this 100% figure from?

a reply to: Primordial

How do you equate "not concerned" with "ok with it"...


That's a hell of a way to twist an already suspect poll...

Does that mean all the people of the West who aren't brainwashed by the fearmongering are "ok with extremism"...

Or does it mean that they're "not concerned"?



I'm not "concerned" because it isn't as much of a threat as it's made out to be...
That does not mean I am "ok" with it when it does occur...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Charlie, I'm not going to nitpick with you.

My point is the stain that all of this leaves on Islam, not the politics involved.

Since the great terrorism is openly done in the name of Allah, by "mostly" Muslims (ok, make you happy)
But is it clearly done in the name of Islam, see beheading videos, shouts of Allah Akbar, and statement made by Islamic State leaders calling on the name of Allah and Muhammad.

There were political motives in the Crusades as well.

Neither fact negates the fact
that both the Crusades
and the current Great Terrorism

put horrific stains on both religions

that cause people to think badly of the religion
and cause people to think badly of those who practice the religion
whether or not they believe as the people in the Crusades or Great Terrorism
whether or not they behave as the people in the Crusades or Great Terrorism

The point I was making was

the awful and permanent stains on both religions

which the OP letter

ignored.

It would have been a powerful and meaningful letter if the author had done this.

a reply to: interupt42

The fact that he never denounced the violent acts by so called Muslims was very telling for me.

And you are wrong. The Ayatollah denounced the terrorist attacks in France and in other nations where terrorist attacks take place.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I agree with that grandma, it does stain Islam immensely.

I'm am surprised people are expecting anything like that from the Ayatollah though...

Especially considering Iran think all of these attacks are perpetrated by the West & Israel.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

It is nice to see that although we disagree on the politics

we agree on the outcome of the 21st Century Great Terrorism

for the religion of Islam

and the pain it will cause Muslims

and the great harm done to the religion of Islam

for many generations to come.

a reply to: buster2010

Yes and Iran is also fighting ISIS in Iraq. I think the letter was good intentioned, to try and bridge the gap! Who am I to have a say? I am a westerner and I have been living in Algeria which is 99% Muslim for the last 5 years. They protect ME more then themselves. You think Muslims know any more about who these terrorists are then anyone else? THEY DON'T. Terrorists are not part of society here, they hide in the mountains, and all people are afraid of them. Don't dehumanize them.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Primordial

How do you equate "not concerned" with "ok with it"...


That's a hell of a way to twist an already suspect poll...

Does that mean all the people of the West who aren't brainwashed by the fearmongering are "ok with extremism"...

Or does it mean that they're "not concerned"?



I'm not "concerned" because it isn't as much of a threat as it's made out to be...
That does not mean I am "ok" with it when it does occur...

It's not as much of a threat as it's made out to be here, yet. The stated goal of the extremist portion is, however, to change that.

If I were being portrayed as a violent extremist because of my religion I would be concerned.

Today, al Qaeda is widely reviled, with a median of 57% across the 11 Muslims publics surveyed saying they have an unfavorable opinion of the terrorist organization that launched the twin attacks on New York City and Washington, DC more than a decade ago.

Translation : A median of 43% DON"T view al Qaeda "unfavorably", and according to the poll they are the most "unfavorably" viewed of the bunch. (Hezbollah, Hamas, the Taliban) That's about 680 million who don't have "an unfavorable opinion" of al Qaeda. More so for the others.

Twist it however you like.

originally posted by: flice

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
The responses in this thread are disgusting! Ayatollah??? Screw him and his religion! What is it you people don't understand???? Islam is completely incompatible with western ideals and American values! I suggest if you call yourself a real American you look back on the writings of Jefferson or Churchill!! No wonder America is being destroyed and everything we hold dear being dismantled with people actually listening to a fundamental religious crackpot from a third world slum stuck in the 8th century! I'm ashamed what Americans will listen to and self doubt about!

America is completely incompatible with a modern peaceful world where you respect sovereignty of nations and their access to their own resources...

You should have said that America is completely incompatible with a stoneage world where woman are stoned after being raped, bombs are strapped to women and children, non-conformity means death, and non-worship of allah means death.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs


Yes indeed....soon to be announced motives...

the Supreme Leader is prepared to sent Islamic (shia sect) Teachers to staff all the Community Colleges, Local Tech Centers that Obama will have operational under his 2 Year Free Education program recently announced to the public.

That is one way to indoctrinate the youth, free Islamic studies....
and how the Iranian Leader will accomplish planting the seed of misinformation contained in the last sentence of the OP linked message "Don’t allow them to hypocritically introduce their own recruited terrorists as representatives of Islam. "

... both the Supreme Leader and this current USA Administration want to confound the masses with the falsehood that Islamic-Radicals and Rogue cells in the West (like the Paris crisis) are false flag attacks by CIA Islamic Radicals, not the normal Muslims Peaceful Muslims....
the 'free' junior college program in the USA will eventually concentrate on 'Islamic-Muslim studies'...
so that 'sensitive' youthful workers with this sensitivity training about Islam, will receive preference in Federal/State/Municipality hiring...

you heard it here first, the MSM will never publish that info ... and the alternative media will be kinda slow to pick it up... the Obama mission for the population to embrace Islam.... ??




[



shining a light on the core bacteria might kill it before it spreads to infect the whole USA social/political system

a reply to: new_here

Probably something along the lines of - I'm sorry for America. We suck.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: new_here

I believe he is trying to say "don't drink the kool-aid' concerning what is really going on in the war on terror. In the last line:

That too, but what he is saying is that Islam is "this dynamic and effective reality in today’s world", and that people should find out about Islam through a means that presents it as such, rather than the way that it comes out as through the news, that makes it seem like only a negative thing.

My point is that it is negative.
Should we go to war with every culture that believes in more than a single god, and for what benefit?
No one is threatened by someone else's belief, except when that belief happens to be Islam.

Well unless you are a Kurd, a christian, a Zoroastrian, Jewish ect then yea why worry about ISIS. You would generaly be ok as long as you were not one of these.

If we're being honest, you can't even be a Sunni or Shi'a Muslim with ISIS. If they deem you to be not Muslim enough, you're in trouble.

You also forgot the Yazidis. You can't be one of them, either.

Basically, ISIS is truly living up to the fascist nature inherent in radical Islamic belief.

a reply to: Primordial

You must understand the difference between Hamas & Hezbollah compared to Al Qaeda & the Taliban...so it's not surprise people do not find those first two unfavourable...



Also being the Middle East, most Muslims are not really concerned with being aligned with Terrorists because that is not the perception of their Media, Government or communities...



Muslims in the West do have concerns with beings lumped with terrorists because we hear it being done everyday...


So again I can understand people in the Middle East having no concern with being portrayed as terrorists because all in all they probably don't realise that comparison is being made in other regions.





You did the twisting...
I added perspective.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: interupt42

The fact that he never denounced the violent acts by so called Muslims was very telling for me.

And you are wrong. The Ayatollah denounced the terrorist attacks in France and in other nations where terrorist attacks take place.

If you reread my post in context you can see that my statement was in regards to the letter in the OP where I saw no mention of denouncing the violent acts by so called Muslims in his letter.

However, you do bring up another point I raised in another thread in regards to the Public outcry by the Muslim community but I don't want to derail this thread but you can see it here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: criticalhit

Except we have separation of church and state. If you allow the state to tax the church, then you destroy that separation.

What you want is for the state to control the church and keep it from existing unless the state deems it appropriate and controls everything about it. You want the church to stay out of politics, but your approach makes the church political by definition.

I don't think you have thought it through and the idea is antithetical to the notion of a FREE nation composed of FREE people. That you cite China as your example only proves it.

And you might be surprised about Islam funding things. Islam in its Shari'a expression is a theocratic system. The very word means submission. The church and state are the same thing. That means the church fund the state and vice versa and you submit to it, including not only funding it but fighting and dying for it and you are proud to do so because there is no higher calling for a true Muslim.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Primordial

You must understand the difference between Hamas & Hezbollah compared to Al Qaeda & the Taliban...so it's not surprise people do not find those first two unfavourable...



Also being the Middle East, most Muslims are not really concerned with being aligned with Terrorists because that is not the perception of their Media, Government or communities...



Muslims in the West do have concerns with beings lumped with terrorists because we hear it being done everyday...


So again I can understand people in the Middle East having no concern with being portrayed as terrorists because all in all they probably don't realise that comparison is being made in other regions.





You did the twisting...
I added perspective.

So, you're saying muslims in muslim countries don't know the west has a problem with muslims because of terrorism committed by muslims in the name of islam, and that we have been bombing and invading the middle east under just that pretext for over a decade? Many may not agree with our reasons, but they sure as hell are aware of them.

I cited poll numbers, you seem to bend way over backwards to try to diminish the impact radical islam is having on the world.