Negligent Discharge: Time to Talk About Gun Safety

a reply to: waynos

More guns inevitably means more gun deaths

The key to that is to ensure the RIGHT people die.

Killing the psycho trying to hurt children isn't a bad thing.

People lump all "gun deaths" together as if they are all the same, including the deaths of criminals who died as a result of being shot by their intended victims. That is dishonest and helps to create a dangerous narrative..That defending yourself is bad, and being disarmed victims is morally superior to shooting a nut job in the face.

But for any armed society, safety is the key, to both operation of firearms AND use of them. The whole purpose of firearms is safety. Even for criminals and psychos. Criminals view firearms as insurance against non-compliant victims.

Where criminals and the VAST majority of law abiding people differ is what kind of safety they are trying to ensure. What it is they are defending.

a reply to: projectvxn

Great thread and much needed info.

I posted a thread a few days ago on a father that video taped his toddler putting a 40 cal into her mouth, while playing with the gun.

The responses were interesting.

Baby Playing With Handgun - Daddy Video Tapes It

a reply to: projectvxn

Unfortunately it often doesn't work out the way you said, but I'm not looking to get into that argument. I'm not one of those Brits that thinks America should ban gun ownership, but this is a telling statement you made;

That defending yourself is bad, and being disarmed victims is morally superior to shooting a nut job in the face.

I think this view may have something to do with the misunderstanding that many Americans display of the lack of guns in Britain. It's just that some of the things I've read on here from Americans bemoaning us for surrendering our guns seem to resonate with what you said there.

Many Americans may be unaware that public handgun ownership hasn't been a feature of life in the UK ever. Certainly not at all in the three hundred ish years that America grew up in, where handgun ownership was an essential for survival. It's important to recognise that we didn't have anything taken away, we never wanted it it the first place. It's nothing to do with being morally superior victims, it's just not out way and (for the majority) we'd rather not create a problem we don't already have.

I know it's different over there, as I've said elsewhere, and I am very much impressed by the practice that you and others have described (every gun is always loaded etc). Sadly, I think that IF gun ownership was allowed here as it is over there, there would be relatively far fewer people who would have the brains to follow those sort of rules and far more like the the person in the video with the baby, so moral superiority doesn't come into it, just different cultures in different countries.

More guns in circulation naturally makes it easier for undesirables to get them, that's not only why we don't want them here, but also why trying to make America follow the same rules as us would be too one sided and hand the criminal classes the upper hand, life would probably resemble a Jimmy Cagney film, without the charm.

:-)

a reply to: waynos

I think this view may have something to do with the misunderstanding that many Americans display of the lack of guns in Britain.

Actually this is the attitude AMERICAN anti-gun folks take.

They actually say things like "piss yourself to make the rapist lose his libido".

My wife would rather make the rapist piss himself with a 9mm pistol.

The difference between British and American views on firearms ownership is not lost on me. Its just a different culture and I accept that as well.

a reply to: projectvxn
I was wondering that as I was writing. I know there is an anti gun movement over there, but as much as I'm glad we aren't armed over here, I can't see a coherent and realistic case for it over there.

a reply to: waynos

The prevailing attitude is the US is pro gun ownership.

Because of that I stress that people new and old to gun ownership both observe safety standards LONG established AND seek training in defensive firearms use.

As a soldier and gun owner I cannot stress enough the importance of training. It is literally a matter of life and death as well as jail or no jail.

You make the wrong move with a gun and you could wind up in jail and lose your rights forever. It is so important to know the law, understand tactical action and tactical patience, and to focus on fundamentals of shooting. For the law abiding citizen gun owner, these are essential fields of study.

To those of us who support responsible gun ownership in America, we more often than not stress the importance of RESPONSIBLE.

Liberty without responsibility is chaos.

Very well constructed post and very valid!

The funniest story I have ever heard about a mishap with a weapon was an armourer (of all the people) who had an ND and shot himself in the neck. He survived..and got charged £1000 for his mishap. He also collected £10000 in personal compensation thanks to his accident cover. Quickest 9 grand I've ever heard of...it wouldn't have been so funny if the idiot had hit someone else. I seen an idiot getting a runaway gun and letting it go! Thing was bouncing all over.

A firearm is not a dangerous thing in competent hands (depending on that person's intentions obviously). They can bring a lot of pleasure to anyone who is interested in the use of them. They can also grant personal safety. A very useful thing to have. Just as some like to use a fishing rod or enjoy crafting materials with hardware tools, others enjoy the use of firearms. It is the idiots and the irresponsible who don't belong anywhere near them that are the problem. The police officer in that video is a complete idiot. For a professional who carries a sidearm for self defence as part of his job, to pick a weapon up and not immediately clear it is pretty ridiculous.

There are some people who should not own guns or operate heavy machinery or anything that requires thinking. I train people to shoot semi automatic pistols in Sydney Australia

a reply to: brendanduke

There are some people who should not own guns or operate heavy machinery or anything that requires thinking.

Generally I would agree. But in the US you can't revoke rights because someone is stupid. What you can do is help fight that stupid by pushing education as much as possible.

If you really want to do anything meaningful become a NRA or other certified instructor or donate to programs to promote gun safety in the real world.

In the last 3 years I've donated nearly 1000 to the NRA to support programs that teach gun safety and legislative action and most of that came from the sales of old gun parts and bullets.

One thing that nobody has mentioned here. The idiots who modify their guns to give them a "hair trigger". The woman who was killed by her two year old pulling the trigger had her weapon modified.

When I was a child we had two guns in the house, a .303 British Enfield rifle and a 12GA shotgun. As soon as I was big enough to hold them, my Father took me out to shoot them. After that I wanted nothing to do with them. When I turned five, I got a .22 Marlin rifle for my birthday. Mt Father was a former Marine and I learned range safety to Marine standards.

These days in some areas teaching a child how to fire a weapon is considered child abuse. I taught my nephew how to target shoot so that he could join the Rifle Team. He wrote about it for English Class and the local CYS people showed up at my Sister's door with a copy of his paper wanting to see how they stored their guns. When she told them that they were my guns, they showed up at MY door wanting to see how I stored my guns. When I told them to get lost, they came back with a State cop and a Court Order.

Rule #3 should also include: Keep your trigger finger off the trigger "and outside the trigger guard" until you intend to fire.

originally posted by: Erno86
Rule #3 should also include: Keep your trigger finger off the trigger "and outside the trigger guard" until you intend to fire.

Roger and I agree.

Keep that boogerhook off the bang switch!

No worries they won't feel even a twinge of pain. a reply to: Ericthedoubter

Did you use your weapons to teach the authorities a lesson in U.S. Civics? I believe it was in Utah several years ago that a rancher and many patriots taught the feds a lesson in civic manners. The feds weren't in the mood to die over a old watering hole. God you've got to love the 2nd Amendment and those who have the courage to apply it. t reply to: JIMC5499

a reply to: projectvxn

It's disappointing that there was a need to write this thread.

It should be ingrained in any gun owners mind already, too many don't respect the weapons they own.

a reply to: projectvxn



He didn't waste any time dropping it back on the counter once he'd seen the injury.

The propellant is the dangerous component. If he'd thought 'propellant' first he would have checked the weapon was clear.



When all precautions have been taken there are still ricochets to consider.

a reply to: waynos

We had another air gun death here recently.

Ben's death has reignited the debate over the dangers of air guns, with Simon Reinhold from The British Association for Shooting and Conservation telling ITV News Anglia that young people need to be educated about the risk of using firearms.

www.itv.com...

They were playing indoors and he was shot in the neck. Most air gun injuries aren't too bad as long as the gun is below the legal power limit. Some irresponsible people increase the power to levels that legally would require a gun licence. Those guns are extremely dangerous and concentrated in the wrong hands.

The UK has a very active shooting scene. Anyone interested can get themselves known by contacting one of the hundreds of clubs listed here. www.shootingclubdirectory.com...


Following the Dunblane false flag www.abovetopsecret.com... 162,000 weapons and 700 tonnes of ammunition were handed in. Many pistol shooters immediately replaced their confiscated pistols with legal black powder guns. news.bbc.co.uk...


Gun ownership is a very large feature of many peoples lives in the UK. Handgun ownership was attacked by means of the state murder of schoolchildren. I know whose methods I prefer.

a reply to: Kester

Saw about this one a while ago. I understand that he is attempting to sue the gun shop for handing him a loaded weapon without informing him. Never mind that he

1. Didn't check the weapons state.
2. Muzzle swept other people in the shop.
3. Held the muzzle against part of his body.
4. Actioned the trigger despite the above.

The shop owner should was wrong to hand the cop a loaded weapon, and should have first cleared it. He should have at least confirmed the weapons state with the cop. Just because he was dealing with a police officer does not mean that you ignore the most basic rules. However the cop is at least as negligent.

a reply to: PaddyInf

I once asked a client I was gardening for if I could use the air rifle I saw propped in a cupboard. It was loaded. I found out because the first thing I did was instinctively break the barrel to check. She said it had last been used three months before, and there it was within reach of her grandchildren.

Every gun should be treated as if it were loaded, unless it's visibly unloaded. Some people make a point of laughing at the careful approach.

I'd put most of the blame on the cop here. Anyone handling large amounts of guns/ammo is going to slip up sometime. Once you're holding the gun you have to point it in a safe direction.

I'm angry enough to rant now. I just remembered how a gun shop owner laughed at my care when handling an air pistol years ago. He handed it over and laughed when I took it carefully and pointed it at the floor.