The Hill Star Map and Exoplanets - Part 2: Analysis and NASA's Exo-S Mission (VIDEO)

originally posted by: intrptr
This search outside the solar system, is it a de facto resignation that the solar system is devoid of conditions for life, you think? Like we've looked here and now are beginning to widen the search?

Well the search for life has been described as a 3-way race between 3 different groups of scientists:

1) The search for life in our solar system.
2) The search for life on exoplanets by detecting biosignatures.
3) The search for extraterrestrial civilizations by detecting technosignatures.

We know there isn't another Earth in our Solar System and also know other Earths exist around other stars so the search expanded there where the conditions for higher forms of life than microbes may exist.

Thanks again for taking the time to tell everyone about this fascinating science. The Science of the search for life. Imagine them finding evidence of a planet like ours with smog from civilization. What then?

Well then the world will be amazed and excited for a few weeks, maybe a month and we in the sciences will get a ton more funding to build massive telescopes in space to see details their planet down to the size of a building the size of the Sears tower.

We'd probably also begin closely monitoring every part of the electromagnetic spectrum for signals from any technology they might be using.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
a reply to: The GUT

I feel uninformed because I'm not up to speed on the Betty/Barney case being well debunked...but I know The GUT as incredibly knowledgeable. Will have to get up to speed on that sometime.

Always good to see you GUT....

You, too, noel! Well-debunked it's not, but there are some oddities there that are suspicious. I'll dig up some source material and report back.

My take these days: Science finds itself seemingly inching ever closer to the metaphysical. I'm guessing that's where our answers lie.

Jade, you should check out Woodward's Making Starships and Stargates. He makes some pretty eye brow raising suggestions in there. It would appear we've got a few working groups on something exotic.

GUT, there also is the whole shebang with Frances Swan and co. All manner of shenanigans with this bunch it seems. :p

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

Betty and Barney Hill aside --- Any thoughts or speculation about the radius distance from the center of our galaxy, that would make life uninhabitable on planets due to cosmic gamma radiation.

Thanks

Ah.... the "Galactic Habitable Zone".

I have an opinion on it which is that it is a stretch. The idea is a controversial one for good reason. I could get into details if you like but they'll be technical in nature.

originally posted by: The GUT
Not around much anymore, Jade, but I wanted to both thank and congratulate you on this awesome series of threads. Are you in contact with any of the folk associated with CAIPAN? Seems like you would be a good fit with some of what they are doing.

No, who are they? Do you mean GEPAN?

Thanks again for your research and methodologies and all the hard work it requires.

It's this type of stuff which brought me to ATS. I'm just continuing the tradition.

P.S. - I think the Hill's were exceptional people and they were high on my list for years as possibilities of the "real deal," but time and research do actually point a fairly solid finger at alphabet shenanigans rather than Zet-ies.

Like I said, I would not be shocked at that.

Not to sound too skeptical over this but has it occurred to anyone in the years since her first claim that anyone could draw a random configuration of stars and eventually an astronomer somewhere will find a match?

a reply to: JadeStar

a reply to: The GUT

P.S. - I think the Hill's were exceptional people and they were high on my list for years as possibilities of the "real deal," but time and research do actually point a fairly solid finger at alphabet shenanigans rather than Zet-ies.

Can you point me to a thread or a link that synapse that claim? I'd very much like to read it. I'm open to new insight, I was around when the story first broke and have seen time change stories as well. Not only by faulty recalling but I got to figure meddling by a government that seems to be in cover up mode when it comes to these incidents.

Thanks Gut.

a reply to: JadeStar

Thats just freaking awesome the advance in technology to allow us to resolve at these distances.

I have always been interested in this Science and followed all the planetary missions and moon landing stuff as well as owning a telescope and dabbling in recycling and metals refinement. The latter , involving gas chromatograph, mass spectrometers makes me marvel at the capability they have now to focus, detect and analyze such things at stellar distances.

City lights on reverse side of other planets? Just amazing.

I really appreciate this inside look at it. You have been most kind to answer all my queries with such depth and obvious skill.

I know other life exists. I have personally seen a "thingy" one night a long time ago.

I have turned this around in my mind a lot.
The analogy I came up with relates to the number of diamonds on the earth.

There are a lot of them on the planet, but you could go outside and dig forever over most of the worlds surface without ever finding one.

The exacting conditions for making diamonds is rare compared to all the rock the earth is comprised of. And yet there are thousands, millions of diamonds being found all the time.

I think the exact conditions that harbor life are as rare around the Galaxy. Just the right conditions also doesn't mean life has arisen (or been placed) there. Unless you believe in Johnny Appleseed type enterprises, which I got to figure are in full swing somewhere. People look for spots to grow gardens , till the soil, plant and raise a garden everywhere.

DNA, an egg, a seed, the womb and cell division all reflect back to this enterprise in my mind. I wonder what interstellar "Arks" look like?

Thanks again JadeStar, you have enlightened my mind. I have a whole new appreciation for you and your content on ATS!

regards,

intrptr

originally posted by: Asynchrony
Not to sound too skeptical over this but has it occurred to anyone in the years since her first claim that anyone could draw a random configuration of stars and eventually an astronomer somewhere will find a match?

a reply to: JadeStar

That was Carl Sagan's initial argument which he rescinded because the chances of that were 1 in 5,000. Marjorie Fish only made around 15-17 models. Either she was incredibly lucky or....

I can tell you that in my own research I had a computer program try to match stars using the same criteria Marjorie Fish did and out of over 2000 calculations it only found 2 matches. One involved stars hundreds of light years away and the other was the Hill-Fish map.

originally posted by: intrptr
Can you point me to a thread or a link that synapse that claim? I'd very much like to read it. I'm open to new insight, I was around when the story first broke and have seen time change stories as well. Not only by faulty recalling but I got to figure meddling by a government that seems to be in cover up mode when it comes to these incidents.

I do find you very openminded, intrptr, and I always enjoy seeing you in a thread.

The late Philip Coppens has done some excellent research into the subject we might call,"MK-UFOS."

Not a big fan of Ancient Aliens (though I went through that phase too) I am a fan of his work at the following page:

Philip Coppens: UFO Memes

Here's the main article mentioning some interesting facts surrounding the Hills:

Pied Pipers of the CIA

Other articles of particular and related interest:

Extra-terrestrial intelligence or terrestrial intelligence agencies?

The Alien Overlords

Pretty much all the articles on that page are well worth the read and solidly researched. Of course, I only recommend using them as an easily digestible "overview" of the subject matter and an aid to further research. That's what I did and Coppens' work in this area held up very well as I researched the claims I wasn't familiar with.

originally posted by: JadeStar
No, who are they? Do you mean GEPAN?

You can read about CAIPAN at karl 12's Proceedings of the CAIPAN Paris workshop on UAP/UFOs.

Karl also links the CAIPAN website where they have made many of the presentations available in various formats including transcripts and further research material.

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: JadeStar
No, who are they? Do you mean GEPAN?

You can read about CAIPAN at karl 12's Proceedings of the CAIPAN Paris workshop on UAP/UFOs.

Karl also links the CAIPAN website where they have made many of the presentations available in various formats including transcripts and further research material.

Thank you I'll dive into this now.

a reply to: The GUT

Thnaks Gut. I appreciate the links.

The pied pipers of the CIA raised a question in my mind. The claim that a psyops was perped on the Hills confuses me. If the government at that time was busy covering up UFO's (Roswell, Bluebook) what is the advantage of instilling false memories in the Hills that would further promote the genre?

Surely they could see down the road that this might widen interest instead of deaden it? The notion vetted by others that the intent was to "lure out believers" is amusing.

"Luring" people to believe in UFOs is not the governments intent(?)

Say the government wanted to block the Hills memory from some real events, they would instill memories of camping in the woods for instance, instead of being "abducted".

Knowing what we know now about exploration of Mars, consider:

1. We do not do it stealthily.
2. We do it economically
3. We go 'smaller' rather than larger
4. We do it remotely with technology, not by visiting in person

If an advanced civilization wanted to not be seen, however, they could easily do it. Invisibility cloaking is already available and being perfected (though crudely). UFOs would be very small, would not have visible spectrum lighting, would not look like a craft (but could appear as a normal atmospheric presence - birds, clouds, normal aircraft).

They would not need to abduct people in remote locations time and time and time again. When and if they did they would not see the need to put them back in bed (highly specific placement) but with their pajamas on inside out (highly non-specific and comically in error), and they would just discard them or drop them anywhere (just like when we tag an animal, we put them back somewhat randomly).

We would find trace evidence (Locard's Principle), even if subtle. To date we don't have much and nothing that is not present on Earth already.

If, someday we find a nano-craft with components that are not like anything on Earth, composites not found here, then it would make sense to speculate about visitations. There is no 'reverse engineering' without methods of production being known.

A good first step would be for the hundreds of people who feel the need to muddy the waters by hoaxing and faking such events to find something better to do with their spare time.

originally posted by: intrptr
"Luring" people to believe in UFOs is not the governments intent(?)

I can think of a few reasons, but it's an admittedly complex topic. If, on further research, you should decide that, yes, at least some faction(s) within the intelligence community have been creating some ufo-mythology, then maybe what we previously thought they were hiding ain't what they are hiding.

Another thing to consider is that oft times agencies from different branches are working independent of each other. That certainly sometimes comes into play, but I don't think that explains the seeming dichotomies of hiding "UFOs" on one hand and promoting them on the other---or what we've experienced sociologically since 1947.

Following the clues--and the facts--lead me in some interesting new directions. While I've come to believe that the USG isn't hiding any crashed saucers, I have come to suspect that what they are hiding is possibly even equally, or more, mind-blowing.

Staying more grounded, I suggest that it's impossible to separate modern ufo-mythology from cold war tactics, psychological warfare, and MK-ULTRA and its kissing cousins (Artichoke, Blue Bird, etc.) It's pretty much all there for those still openminded enough to wanna know the truth no matter where it leads. You have to give up Roswell though, and it's hard to kill our babies.

When I pursue the "anomalous" within that context, it often leads to what we call "weird science." Quantam possibilities maybe.

We often hear the old saw that the public is not ready for "disclosure" and that turmoil would ensue should it be revealed. We know that's BS.

But what if the Artist Formerly Known as E.T. was much closer to home and falls somewhere in the "interdimensional" category? Then, yeah, when I think about it, that could cause some serious upheaval, eh? How would that be interpreted by, say, Christians and Muslims?

Of course, that part is mere speculation and just some food for thought. The rest of it, however, is increasingly documented and deserves the stricter attention of ufology and a willingness to snoop it out.

GUT if you want a funky angle to look into, check the Islamic stuff on Djinns. It would seem that the Iranians, among others, have their own versions of the SRI guys dabbling in this stuff.

io9.com...

Honestly, this is one of the more bizarre revelations that looking into this stuff has resulted in. We like to think we're rationalist products of the Enlightenment, but it doesn't take much to find all kinds of government interest in the weird stuff. :p

[quote=The GUT]While I've come to believe that the USG isn't hiding any crashed saucers, I have come to suspect that what they are hiding is possibly even equally, or more, mind-blowing.

I've come to the same conclusion. Although, Kit Green does suggest they had some kind of interaction on at least three occasions...thing is the dates don't jive with anything in the public domain really...

I think 'The Secret' has more to do with the simulation argument then it does with little green men...

Here's some more stuff on the CIA aspect.

a reply to: The GUT

Deep thinker you are and way more versed in the subject than I. I have an edge, though. I have seen a "craft" and ghosts and can correlate some also "out there conjecture". Too bad we are trying to see the next world from flat-landia, as it were.

Words don't suffice.

But what if the Artist Formerly Known as E.T. was much closer to home and falls somewhere in the "interdimensional" category? Then, yeah, when I think about it, that could cause some serious upheaval, eh? How would that be interpreted by, say, Christians and Muslims?

Definitely upsets the apple cart. Whole new round of witch hunts kicking off. The government loses authority, the people stop paying tax, going to war… ahh, the humanity.

Best to just keep it all under wraps from a government respective. And yes to misinform and discredit from that very same government perspective. They can exile all the main stream incidents, I still have mine. For me , its not a matter of belief.

Thanks for the replies…

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

Betty and Barney Hill aside --- Any thoughts or speculation about the radius distance from the center of our galaxy, that would make life uninhabitable on planets due to cosmic gamma radiation.

Thanks

Ah.... the "Galactic Habitable Zone".

I have an opinion on it which is that it is a stretch. The idea is a controversial one for good reason. I could get into details if you like but they'll be technical in nature.

Feel free J.S., since I'm sure it's on topic. I'm guessing that our Earth is in the middle of the galactic habitable zone --- which would possibly make our planet having a higher percentage of being on the shopping list of some interstellar capable civilizations --- even though our planet might just be a way stop for interstellar voyagers due for some rest and relaxation and some water too boot.

a reply to: JadeStar

Well I guess either way it's an interesting story.