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The Hill Star Map and Exoplanets - Part 2: Analysis and NASA's Exo-S Mission (VIDEO)

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posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar

Including NASA's search for exoplanets, it might also be advantageous for them too also search for rogue mini black holes, since it might be possible for a civilization to harvest a black hole, so as to incorporate a micro-mini black hole into a starship as in the heart of the propulsion unit; onboard a superluminal capable starship.

Find a rogue mini-black hole....then search for any nearby star systems that have exoplanets --- and we may as yet --- locate a interstellar wayfaring civilization.


edit on 14-1-2015 by Erno86 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 14 2015 @ 08:50 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar

Nice work JS. Familiar with the Hill's and their story, so I dove into all this earlier today and it was interesting. Checked out your tube page too. Appreciate the work you put into this thread. ~$heopleNation



posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar

What does NASA think about the feasibility of black hole starship propulsion?

Google: Black Hole Starships and check out my [Erno86] theory...including others as well.


edit on 15-1-2015 by Erno86 because: typo error



posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 02:50 PM
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Or google: Erno86 black hole starships
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 15-1-2015 by Erno86 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-1-2015 by Erno86 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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Science is not needed here.

Betty and Barney Hill is one of those case that are made for the psy ops program, to create the myth of alien UFOs in 20th century and to make people think there are really such visitors instead of military weapons or other events that happened, in other words - for distraction, like Rendlesham forest, Roswell, Kecksburg and all these. B&B Hill is simply another of these stories and there is no alien truth in them, therefore the starmap and everything is made partially true to give credibility to the case but the main purpose of the story remains.

If there has ever been ETs, they may have been in prehistoric and ancient times, or in later centuries like during late middle ages, revolutions and renaissance. If there are really such visitor cases in the 20th century, it is not on any of the 'big UFO cases' or 'abductions' that are so vastly advertised on various TV shows. This is rule number one for the biggest cases, the more famous, the less real



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar

Betty and Barney Hill's drawing of the ET entity that they encountered, does have a likeness of one possible ET biological sentient being that I photographed in the summer of 1972 at Calvert Cliffs, Maryland; only my creature or robot has two eyes, nose, mouth, left shoulder and a left leg and foot.

You can Google: fooftr27 [me] and see my two photograph videos on YouTube, titled: Space Alien Hiding Behind Fossil Rock and Space Alien Petroglyph; which might be a self-portrait geoglyph carving of the ET entity.

Your's truly,

Erno

edit on 16-1-2015 by Erno86 because: added a few words



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: CollisioN

I wonder, if the govt is so good at mind control that they can convince a couple of fairly intelligent people (the Hills) that they were abducted by aliens, why can't they use mind control on a captured terrorist and convince them that Mohammed has visited them and wants them to stop what they are doing (and spread the word to other terrorists)? Just sayin'



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: CollisioN

You know what, then those "military weapons" you speak of, are worthless. Those "Military UFO's" didn't prevent any war or violence. You would also have 1000's of soldiers talking about using the 1950's-70's "Military UFO's" in the current wars in the Middle East. Sorry not true.



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:29 PM
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Just wanted you to know I have not deserted this thread. I was very busy with school this week and ended a relationship as well so my plate has been quite full. I will get to your questions/comments in a bit.



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Jade, you should check out Woodward's Making Starships and Stargates. He makes some pretty eye brow raising suggestions in there. It would appear we've got a few working groups on something exotic.


I will check it out. I have heard of Woodward's research before. His work was under study as part of NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program which investigated exotic propulsion concepts. I'd be very interested in learning more, especially from the standpoint of technologies which might be detectable if in use by someone else. Do you have a good summary anywhere or a link to a paper?

And yes, there are several groups at NASA and elsewhere doing experiments which may lead to some exotic and in some cases very exotic means of fast interplanetary and even interstellar travel.



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 09:45 PM
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originally posted by: Maverick7
Knowing what we know now about exploration of Mars, consider:

1. We do not do it stealthily.
2. We do it economically
3. We go 'smaller' rather than larger
4. We do it remotely with technology, not by visiting in person


Great observation and that's my general view as well.



If an advanced civilization wanted to not be seen, however, they could easily do it. Invisibility cloaking is already available and being perfected (though crudely). UFOs would be very small, would not have visible spectrum lighting, would not look like a craft (but could appear as a normal atmospheric presence - birds, clouds, normal aircraft).

They would not need to abduct people in remote locations time and time and time again. When and if they did they would not see the need to put them back in bed (highly specific placement) but with their pajamas on inside out (highly non-specific and comically in error), and they would just discard them or drop them anywhere (just like when we tag an animal, we put them back somewhat randomly).


Exactly. I made this point to Stanton Friedman recently during an email exchange we've been having as a result of this and other threads I've posted.

It seems to me that the idea of flying saucers occupied by alien "beings" is almost quant 1950s sci-fi compared to what we now know is possible in our not too distant future.

I specifically mentioned nanoscale sized machines, probes, etc. I explained that we already have a nano-sized car which fits within the width of a human hair. Mr. Friedman thought that was fascinating.



We would find trace evidence (Locard's Principle), even if subtle. To date we don't have much and nothing that is not present on Earth already.

If, someday we find a nano-craft with components that are not like anything on Earth, composites not found here, then it would make sense to speculate about visitations. There is no 'reverse engineering' without methods of production being known.


Agreed. I have been working on a "Nano-SETI" proposal in my spare time for that purpose. It assumes there is already stuff like alien nano-probes, smart dust, and the like on Earth. My idea involves the use of artificial intelligence/expert systems, targeted collection of samples and pattern recognition with a supercomputer (which could simply be a network of distributed computing PCs ala SETI @ Home).



A good first step would be for the hundreds of people who feel the need to muddy the waters by hoaxing and faking such events to find something better to do with their spare time.


Agreed. Those people are the worst.



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: Erno86

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

Betty and Barney Hill aside --- Any thoughts or speculation about the radius distance from the center of our galaxy, that would make life uninhabitable on planets due to cosmic gamma radiation.

Thanks



Ah.... the "Galactic Habitable Zone".

I have an opinion on it which is that it is a stretch. The idea is a controversial one for good reason. I could get into details if you like but they'll be technical in nature.



Feel free J.S., since I'm sure it's on topic. I'm guessing that our Earth is in the middle of the galactic habitable zone --- which would possibly make our planet having a higher percentage of being on the shopping list of some interstellar capable civilizations ---



Ok, now keep in mind, I'm just an undergrad but from what I understand about the Galactic Habitable Zone idea it postulates there is a region of the galaxy that is similar to the circumstellar habitable zone around a star. Too close to the center and a planetary system would be bathed in intense radiation. Too far out and a planetary system would presumably lack heavier elements due to the lower metallicity of stars.

I would argue that other than an inner boundary there is no merit to this idea. We have found a fair amount of high mass planets around low metallicity stars and stars migrate in and out of the spiral arms. Our Sun and solar system have orbited the Galaxy 20 times since its birth. Other planetary systems are doing the same and may move tens of thousands of light years from their original orbit. So it's kind of silly to me to define a zone of habitability in the galaxy. There are just too many things in motion over the life span on a planetary system. Other than the extreme inner part of the galaxy the whole thing is probably habitable.


even though our planet might just be a way stop for interstellar voyagers due for some rest and relaxation and some water too boot.


Doubtful.

There's more water in the moons of the outer planets than there is on Earth. The idea of aliens coming here for water is quaint 1950s sci-fi. Water is one of the most common molecules in the universe since it's made up of two of the most common atoms in the universe (Hydrogen) and another common atom (Oxygen).



Literally every where we look these days we find water in some form.
edit on 16-1-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 10:32 PM
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originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

Including NASA's search for exoplanets, it might also be advantageous for them too also search for rogue mini black holes,


This is out of my area as I am not really well versed in high energy physics but you'd have to expect that such rogue mini black holes would be both very rare, and virtually undetectable to us.

How does one for instance, form a mini black hole naturally? A stellar mass black hole would have the area at least of a city. Is that what you mean by mini?

And as you know, the only way we can detect black holes presently involves either their effects on something else like a nearby star it orbits or a gas cloud it is eating or through microlensing events.


since it might be possible for a civilization to harvest a black hole, so as to incorporate a micro-mini black hole into a starship as in the heart of the propulsion unit; onboard a superluminal capable starship.

Find a rogue mini-black hole....then search for any nearby star systems that have exoplanets --- and we may as yet --- locate a interstellar wayfaring civilization.



Sounds like as good an idea as any. Look for NASA's WFIRST/AFTA mission in about 9-10 years to possibly shed some light on that when it launches. It's primary mission is microlensing and probing "dark matter" so it would seem a natural to look for such elusive objects but without knowing the definition of micro-mini black holes its kind of hard to set up a search strategy to address them.



posted on Jan, 16 2015 @ 10:36 PM
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originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

What does NASA think about the feasibility of black hole starship propulsion?


I don't speak for NASA as I am just a student who did a summer program at NASA Ames but from what I understand it is a far future concept. We might have traveled out amongst the stars for quite awhile before this is feasible for us.

For instance, how does one get a "mini-black hole" I suppose you could create one in a supersized LHC but I don't know. Like I said, high-energy physics is not my forte.



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 01:04 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
I will check it out. I have heard of Woodward's research before. His work was under study as part of NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program which investigated exotic propulsion concepts. I'd be very interested in learning more, especially from the standpoint of technologies which might be detectable if in use by someone else. Do you have a good summary anywhere or a link to a paper?


Nothing comes to mind off the top of my head, but the book is available via university libaries connected with Springer.


He also mentions Skinwalker Ranch at one point.



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 02:26 AM
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I just HAVE to say...
Again Jade, star and flag...

AND: About gravity and lifeforms...

Dinosours, Mastodonts, Mamuts
Whales, Giraffs
Ants, Spiders
Humans

All on the same planet, make u wonder about
the diversity..
I think its MORE dependent on environment
than gravity...



posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 05:40 AM
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originally posted by: The GUT
Not around much anymore, Jade, but I wanted to both thank and congratulate you on this awesome series of threads.
Thanks again for your research and methodologies and all the hard work it requires.


Deserves to be said again...


I sure don't want to divert the thread, but I think exploring the Betty and Barney case worthy of the thread given the extraordinary amount of work on the technical side of the star map from that case. As well, considering the case in depth before MORE work is invested might be a good thing!

Primer for the Betty and Barney case...
www.ufoevidence.org...
en.wikipedia.org...



P.S. - I think the Hill's were exceptional people and they were high on my list for years as possibilities of the "real deal," but time and research do actually point a fairly solid finger at alphabet shenanigans rather than Zet-ies.


Agreed there is very solid evidence of government involvement in UFO mythos creation and molding of already held stories. However I believe the Betty and Barney case to be significantly early as to avoid many of the known US Gov actors in dis-info. The case was investigated by Keyhoe and NICAP...

You quoted Coppens discussion of the case here,
www.philipcoppens.com...
Sadly there is no discussion of the claimed "dis-info" agent Major John MacDonald. It is incredibly hard for me to accept the position that MacDonald was using Betty and Barney in a psy-ops manner for a bunch of reasons.
- His specialty wasn't anywhere near intelligence as he was a physicist
- I haven't seen any confirmed disinfo work by MacDonald whatsoever.
- He spent a lifetime supporting UFO investigation under heavy fire.

The fact that MacDonald is a good family friend proves nothing so far. The discussion about Betty and Barney being a mixed couple and active politically is really worthless if trying to argue the CIA 'picked them' for those reasons. A pretty silly innuendo actually considering they were not major players in any political activity the CIA would try to discredit. Barney was a postal worker right!

Read about John MacDonald here so you get a full idea of his contribution to UFO work...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Coppens states, "Betty Hill wrote to Donald Keyhoe who, despite the fact that he received over a hundred letters a day, homed in on this initially unremarkable case."
Actually that's not true. Keyhoe simply passed on Betty's letter to his local NICAP investigator, Walter Webb, a very standard routine for an organization covering such a large area. The fact that she remembered seeing actual 'entities' in the craft window likely ensured some follow up would happen as that was more than a simple UFO sighting. Further there were 2 witness, Betty and Barney. Multiple witness cases are always better to investigate.

Coppens then states, "Within 24 hours, Keyhoe had arranged for the Hills to be visited by top-level scientists, including C.D. Jackson, who had previously (definitely not coincidentally) worked on psychological warfare techniques for President Eisenhower."
Ah...no. On Sept 26, 1961 Betty wrote a letter to Kehoe, Webb met with the Hills on Oct 21, 1961. Certainly not 'within 24 hours' and actually a pretty normal length of time given actual 'mail' used back then.

On Nov 25, 1961, CJ Jackson and other NICAP members interview the Hills. Again a significant length of time away from the actual incident. At that time Jackson was a member of NICAP but clearly has a dubious CIA background. This is the first documented involvement with a most likely 'dis-info' agent.

NICAP was riddled with CIA people at that time. Probably because it was collecting so many UFO reports and the CIA wanted to be in on the ground floor when a new and valid issue popped up. No surprise a hypnotist with a CIA background would be selected as the story was now being looked at by the CIA.

Coppens states, "Most importantly, it was Jackson who drew the Hills' attention to their missing time period; until he did so, the couple had not realised that their memories of that fateful night were incomplete."
Actually Jackson had read the report from Webb and noticed the 'missing time' that this report documents quite clearly. Jackson didn't 'make up the missing time' aspect of this story, it was documented by Webb, in a report, prior to Jackson even showing up. Clearly Coppens is reaching with this judgement.

Coppens states, "However, as many researchers have since demonstrated, a careful review of the timings actually shows that there was no missing time at all."
That isn't a proven point to me sofar. I still believe there was missing time but that can be discussed more in another post if people are interested.


In summary, It took about 2 months for the first CIA background guy, Jackson, hiding in NICAP to meet the Hills....and the first meeting with NICAP didn't include any CIA guys at all. That looks like a CIA reaction to a report that was initially labelled as very convincing and worthy of more investigation.

If this was a Psyop where the Hills were abducted and given false memories the timeline of events would look very different, along with immediate CIA monitoring and managing of the case. Not 2 months later. The Hills even tried to find a hypnotist at their church and were declined! Some CIA operation that was!

Coppens work into this case seems to lack the detail to flush out if this was a CIA INITIATED operation or simply a credible UFO report that the CIA just JUMPED ON. Of course after you get into the regressions done by the CIA it's hard to know what is memory or implant. You need to review the tapes and decide for yourself.

edit on 17-1-2015 by noeltrotsky because: because I wanted to

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edit on 17-1-2015 by noeltrotsky because: (no reason given)

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posted on Jan, 17 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: noeltrotsky

Nice work, worthy of consideration and further research.


The only thing I'd mention at this point, is that if the Hill's were chosen by an alphabet it wasn't to smear them. Coppens' statement reflects what we do know about the "philosophy" behind many of those chosen for the programs we associate under the MK-ULKTRA umbrella.

I've already apologized to Jade about going off-topic, so let's message and figure out a place to discuss.



posted on Jan, 18 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Erno86

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

Betty and Barney Hill aside --- Any thoughts or speculation about the radius distance from the center of our galaxy, that would make life uninhabitable on planets due to cosmic gamma radiation.

Thanks



Ah.... the "Galactic Habitable Zone".

I have an opinion on it which is that it is a stretch. The idea is a controversial one for good reason. I could get into details if you like but they'll be technical in nature.



Feel free J.S., since I'm sure it's on topic. I'm guessing that our Earth is in the middle of the galactic habitable zone --- which would possibly make our planet having a higher percentage of being on the shopping list of some interstellar capable civilizations ---



Ok, now keep in mind, I'm just an undergrad but from what I understand about the Galactic Habitable Zone idea it postulates there is a region of the galaxy that is similar to the circumstellar habitable zone around a star. Too close to the center and a planetary system would be bathed in intense radiation. Too far out and a planetary system would presumably lack heavier elements due to the lower metallicity of stars.

I would argue that other than an inner boundary there is no merit to this idea. We have found a fair amount of high mass planets around low metallicity stars and stars migrate in and out of the spiral arms. Our Sun and solar system have orbited the Galaxy 20 times since its birth. Other planetary systems are doing the same and may move tens of thousands of light years from their original orbit. So it's kind of silly to me to define a zone of habitability in the galaxy. There are just too many things in motion over the life span on a planetary system. Other than the extreme inner part of the galaxy the whole thing is probably habitable.


even though our planet might just be a way stop for interstellar voyagers due for some rest and relaxation and some water too boot.


Doubtful.

There's more water in the moons of the outer planets than there is on Earth. The idea of aliens coming here for water is quaint 1950s sci-fi. Water is one of the most common molecules in the universe since it's made up of two of the most common atoms in the universe (Hydrogen) and another common atom (Oxygen).



Literally every where we look these days we find water in some form.




Yet some scientists say that the moon Titan, has liquid methane lakes and puddles --- not liquid H2O --- Europa has a thick layer of ice --- so any planetary travelers would have to drill, blast or melt the ice for any hydration duty's --- same goes on any other planet or moon in our solar system that has any frozen water; besides our own planet Earth.

Feel free to comment on my [fooftr 27] ET alien pictures --- btw --- J. Allen Hynek called the Space alien hiding behind the Miocence fossil boulder..."a rock."
edit on 18-1-2015 by Erno86 because: added a sentence



posted on Jan, 19 2015 @ 09:24 AM
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originally posted by: Erno86

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Erno86

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Erno86
a reply to: JadeStar

Betty and Barney Hill aside --- Any thoughts or speculation about the radius distance from the center of our galaxy, that would make life uninhabitable on planets due to cosmic gamma radiation.

Thanks



Ah.... the "Galactic Habitable Zone".

I have an opinion on it which is that it is a stretch. The idea is a controversial one for good reason. I could get into details if you like but they'll be technical in nature.



Feel free J.S., since I'm sure it's on topic. I'm guessing that our Earth is in the middle of the galactic habitable zone --- which would possibly make our planet having a higher percentage of being on the shopping list of some interstellar capable civilizations ---



Ok, now keep in mind, I'm just an undergrad but from what I understand about the Galactic Habitable Zone idea it postulates there is a region of the galaxy that is similar to the circumstellar habitable zone around a star. Too close to the center and a planetary system would be bathed in intense radiation. Too far out and a planetary system would presumably lack heavier elements due to the lower metallicity of stars.

I would argue that other than an inner boundary there is no merit to this idea. We have found a fair amount of high mass planets around low metallicity stars and stars migrate in and out of the spiral arms. Our Sun and solar system have orbited the Galaxy 20 times since its birth. Other planetary systems are doing the same and may move tens of thousands of light years from their original orbit. So it's kind of silly to me to define a zone of habitability in the galaxy. There are just too many things in motion over the life span on a planetary system. Other than the extreme inner part of the galaxy the whole thing is probably habitable.


even though our planet might just be a way stop for interstellar voyagers due for some rest and relaxation and some water too boot.


Doubtful.

There's more water in the moons of the outer planets than there is on Earth. The idea of aliens coming here for water is quaint 1950s sci-fi. Water is one of the most common molecules in the universe since it's made up of two of the most common atoms in the universe (Hydrogen) and another common atom (Oxygen).



Literally every where we look these days we find water in some form.




Yet some scientists say that the moon Titan, has liquid methane lakes and puddles --- not liquid H2O ---


It's not just "some scientists say". The methane lakes and seas (not puddles) have been imaged:


The largest one is 39,000 square miles.


You know what the surface "ground" is mostly made out of on Titan? Frozen water ice. And beyond that Titan has a subsurface sea of liquid water as well.



Europa has a thick layer of ice --- so any planetary travelers would have to drill, blast or melt the ice for any hydration duty's --- same goes on any other planet or moon in our solar system that has any frozen water; besides our own planet Earth.


It's not that thick in certain places. Beyond that... Anyone who can travel light years to get here has access to energies far greater than what is needed to melt a comet or melt a hole into Europa.

But hey, if you somehow think advanced interstellar travelling aliens would be able to get here but wouldn't want to go through the trouble of melting ice they could always just pull up to Saturn's moon Enceladus which is erupting liquid water which instantly freezes) into space:



FYI: There are conflicting observations that Europa may also be doing this at it's south pole.

Helps if one is up to date on planetary science.
Water is one of the most common things in the universe. Basically everywhere we look we find it in some form. Even as ice in the shadow of a crater on Mercury!

edit on 19-1-2015 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)




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