Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

a reply to: butcherguy

Got to page 5 before jumping to this page...

What I was replying to, was another person thinking that the OP was about gun owners mentality. The argument about gun ownership being an ideology is moot in this thread.

I'm happy to be corrected, and hopefully I'm not destroying the discussion..however...

The point being made is that whenever islamist extremists perform one of these deplorable acts of terror, various communities throughout the world start to ask why the rest of the Muslim world do not immediately take to the streets to denounce the actions of the terrorists. In effect, these people are saying that unless the entire Muslim community loudly, and publicly state their opposition to these actions,then they must support them.

As a metaphor to the above, (A METAPHOR) using a satirical construct, the OP suggest that a similar accusation would be that owning a gun is, in effect the same as supporting the mass shootings of a handful of crazed lunatics that has occurred across the world over the pas few years. Or as another poster put it, being christian supports pedophilia,or having a beer supports drunk driving, or having a penis makes you a rapist.

a reply to: neformore

They obviously don't care or they'd have done something about it by now. They probably secretly support the spree killings don't they?

From a scientific point of view, as observers we collapse the infinite abstract wave function down to a single solid reality and THEREFOR everyone IS fully responsible for everything that ever happens in that reality because they consciously and or unconsciously created all of it.

I am sorry for unconsciously manifesting such a lethal nasty abhorent reality for me and all my tulpa's!

I was trapped in the Descartes Matrix and didn't know that I was projecting unconsciously!

I accept the full blame if you will all accept me as your Creator God!

Otherwise I recommend we all look deep into the mirror for someone to blame and then make a change!

Michael Jackson - Man In The Mirror


Reflect on that!

a reply to: lynxpilot

The screeening process is to do with at least attempting to see the point of someones thread and conducting civil discourse about it, not jumping in and saying nothing while attempting a cheap personal shot at someone

I don't know how to edit or delete posts but would appreciate everyone to please ignore any posts from my account on this topic. They were made by my husband using my account and I do not agree with his views on religion. Thank you.

a reply to: idmonster
I get the point of the OP.
Did you read my satire?
It has a point that I suspect not many caught:

Everyone apparently knows the secret of gun owners now. 
We live our lives according to the Messenger of Gun. The holy book of gun is the Narok. 
In the the Narok, it tells us to kill those who do not believe and that we can take their property (wives and children). 
There are some gun owners that do not take the writings in the Narok seriously and they sit quietly on the sidelines while we kill non gunners.

a reply to: neformore

Its a parallel.

To what? The whole, "Why aren't Muslims doing anything to mitigate the actions of violent Muslims?" thing?

Thanks in advance,

a reply to: neformore

Oh for the love of... Do you own a car? More people are killed by cars than guns.

Obama kills more people with drones around the world than people are killed with guns int he USA. Where is your bleeding heart rally on that?

What a waste of space..

a reply to: crazyewok

Okay... I'll start over.

Anyone that goes on a killing spree most definitely won't apologize, as I said before this thread title is junk

Hey ATSians,

Ain't no point in being mean. In terms of ATS threads the OP is fairly well played, even though it may only provide for a short game.

I think the point is that guns are perceived differently in different cultures, so maybe we can learn something from one another.

It's easy to forget that the British haven't had access to firearms in a really long time. I was just tripping out the other night watching Luther thinking, "My God, where's his gun!", and then remembering, "Oh...".

Who knows what's up in France with guns. I don't.

originally posted by: Bybyots
Who knows what's up in France with guns. I don't.

France has a good amount of guns.

a reply to: neformore

Humm, ya know I've never seen instructions in the 2nd Amendment demanding that firearm owners Hunt down those who don't own firearms and either convince them to bear arms or kill them...

I find the premise of this thread to be flawed.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: Battleline
a reply to: neformore

I read it but the idea of calling all people that have kids that don't stand up to child molesters may be molesters them selves is truly a sad way to strike up a conversation that someone like the OP thinks should be discussed.

This is my opinion and you as mod should know that as diverse as ATS is a post like this is going to offended some people no matter how you try to cover its meaning.

It's just as sad to say that all the peaceful Muslims who don't stand up en mass to the terrorists may secretly agree with what the terrorists are doing. Get it now?

I like how the OP is equating Islam with "Dangerous" firearms. I like the analogy. However if the OP is attempting a clever attack on gun owners = racists. Then OP is a complete fail. I support the entire constitution not just the parts I like and I know there are crazies in every religion and that governments around the world are busy financing these crazies in their proxy wars. Terrorist attacks on western soil are either blow back, or planned false flags, take your pick, either way banksters, corporations, neo cons and progressives dabbling in global social engineering are to blame. BTW for the record I didn't equate Islam with dangerous firearms... the op cleverly did.

a reply to: neformore

Is this an attempt to bait?

I'm a bit perplexed why any group needs to speak out for the actions of an individual human. I mean seriously, what are you thinking neformore? I officially call for your mod rights to be taken away at such a ludicrous and thoughtless post.

(yes, I read the disclaimer)

In all seriousness, my initial statement still stands - no group should have to speak out on the behalf of an individual human. Having said that - it's a good idea for some Muslims to speak out against violent Muslims. They don't have to and shouldn't feel obligated. HOWEVER, (that's a big however) there are a lot of ignorant people that lump all Muslims together and have the mentality that they should all be killed or bombed.

Given this, it's a catch 22 whether or not it's a good idea to speak out. It would also be wise for other groups to consider (not feel obligated) speaking out, I can come up with several off the top of my head. But speaking out and taking action are two different things and we need more action.

Its not our fault, as gun advocates, that some people are f*k-ups.

That being said, I do believe that it would be interesting to organize a "stop making us look bad" sort of protest. We'd have signs that say things like "Stop the senseless killing, we want to keep our guns" or "You're dragging us down, criminals" or "The second amendment is for protection, not murder."

A similar protest could be used opposing the worst people in ANY groups, like feminism, conservatives, liberals, people of color, the list goes on and on. The stupidest people are the loudest, and they often make the rest of the people in the group look bad.

Interesting post, OP.

originally posted by: crazyewok

Your honnestly that naive you think the law restricts agencys like the NSA or CIA ? Really?

They are a law of there own

Can you PROVE that the NSA has done a background check on every Muslim in the U.S., including those born here?...

Look, the NSA has a lot of people working for them, including people who are from the Middle East, or are descendants of people from the Middle East and can speak local languages.

There would be whistleblowers left and right.

If the NSA was checking EVERY Muslim to see whether they are "terrorists" or not, this information would get out. Heck, how much information has already gotten out about other unlawful things that the government is and has been doing?...

IF this was happening, the backlash agains the NSA and the U.S. would be monumental. There would be a class action lawsuit, if not more, against the NSA and the U.S. government for racism, harrasment, defamation of character, etc against Muslims.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

Maybe, but when it comes to issues as large and critical as this, we should really try not to generalize. Maybe people shouldn't get so angry when others try to make them understand that. Admit that it happens, correct it, then move on.

There is a bit of a problem with that. You should be able to see it all over these forums as well. People generally don't change opinions when they think they are right. They might have evidence that suggest they could be right, or maybe they don't. But this is part of the flaw of being human.

I am not saying it is ok to make blatant racist generalizations, but there will always be generalizations and misconceptions about other people and cultures. The only way to change this would be to make everyone live in a world society where there are no religions, there is no atheism, there are no political parties, there are no different cultures and there are no countries.

This might sound like an utopia to some, but in fact it would be a nightmare. Everyone would become pretty much a robot. We are all different, whether people want to accept it or not, and with these differences there will be misconceptions, and even generalizations. How do you fight human nature? (BTW, my argument is not that humans are evil)

However, back to my point, if the OP was in favor of people owning and bearing arms and he had presented exactly this argument, I would agree with him. But because the op is in fact in favor of some form of gun control, it is obvious that there is an underlying generalization he is making in this thread. That's the way the human subconscious works.

So my point still stands. How do you make a point that people shouldn't make such generalizations by presenting another generalization?

Let me make an analogy, a parent who is always smoking in front of their children and is telling them "smoking is bad, don't smoke" but he/she continues to smoke in front of their children. What do you think the children would learn?

If you are going to present a case that people shouldn't make blatant generalizations, don't do it by presenting another.

a reply to: neformore

Last I checked if a gun owner sees someone misusing a weapon with intent to kill they more than likely WILL do something about it.

The other difference is that with no Islam there are no radicals of Islam, with no gun ownership there are still criminals.

I am all for Muslims creating a terrorist police force and policing themselves, like us citizens have.

a reply to: neformore

On first reading this, I was thinking...."Huh? Seriously?" Then I read the disclaimer. Pretty well written IMO.

a reply to: neformore

I am not going to read all 17 pages here but ,i see what you did here . Very clever.

a reply to: WCmutant

And I officially call for nerf to be given thread of the week.
Satire people satire.