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Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

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posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

I think you may underestimate my view of the whole situation.

But that isn't what the thread is about. It's not about logical thinking.




posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: neformore

Fair enough.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

No, not talking about the availability of a gun. Compared with other countries who have lots of gun owners, the U.S. still has more mass shootings. It's not the gun that's the problem (according to the article I linked), it's the culture.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Trap eh ?

ALL gun owners have to submit to a background check to prove they are good gun owners.

Whereas no check exists for muslims.

Hence the comparison CAN NOT BE MADE.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Jesus H christ Neo.

This is not about how guns and muslims are the same thing.

It is simply about not blaming the actions of the many for the actions of the few!



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: crazyewok

Trap eh ?

ALL gun owners have to submit to a background check to prove they are good gun owners.

Whereas no check exists for muslims.

Hence the comparison CAN NOT BE MADE.




Id say the USA spends billions on background checks on Muslims.

Otherwise what else does the NSA do? Sit on there arses twiddling there thumbs?



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:09 PM
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Love how certain members who fell for the OP are now getting all irate and there panties in a bunch cause they have been made to look like fools.

This is classic



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Checks for Muslims? Right...can't do that. Checks for all gun owners? Nope...can't do that either, so kind of a bad analogy there. Illegal guns are everywhere. Just buy it from the dude in the alley, serial numbers off. Or the arms dealers dealing cross-border.

So again, why should all Muslims have to apologize for very relatively few crazies any more than all legal gun owners should have to apologize for the crazies (illegal gun owners)?
edit on 1/11/2015 by ~Lucidity because: clarified "same"



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:10 PM
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This thread and OP reminds me of why we're in this mess in the first place.

Something is written. (Bible/Qur'an)

People read, don't understand. (wasn't written in a way where ALL can understand, not a fallacy of the writer per se)

They begin to discuss it like they understood. (creating illogical arguments and false controversy)

The points and lessons were missed. (the Gods are not here to educate us, therefore we remain flawed in anything we put this ideology behind)

Where is the education and forgiveness? So what, people didn't get it. Why mock them with a post just to point out their flawed approach or lack of comprehension.

Instead many "elders" here are pointing the finger and saying, "see, this proves ATS and this thread are full dummies who don't get it."

You are part of the problem. You log in and post just to POINT IT OUT. Why stop there? Where's the education? Where's the forgiveness? Where's the teaching? Make them understand.

NOPE, just more of the same. Mocking, insults and singling out those who "aren't as smart as we are".

I came here to learn. Not see sharks swim around a school of fish. Maybe this isn't the post to do it but we need real education and less propaganda used as sources for where we draw our conclusions from.




posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

Topics like this are far beyond the Macro that we are trying to ascribe to it. Which is the point I'm trying to make.

There are a whole host of reasons why the US has these issues. Largely they are blown out of proportion.

But there are underlying problems. Like the fact that we don't acknowledge and treat metal health. What we do is treat mental health issues as a precursor to crime rather than a disease that requires treatment. We also tend to treat all mental issues as equivalent to any other. Like the case in New York where a former police officer and Navy vet had his guns taken away because he was diagnosed with mild depression and insomnia.

Jared Loughner, who shot Gabby Giffords, killed a Federal Judge, and a 10 year old girl, had a long history of psychotic episodes, schizophrenia, OCD, Multiple Personality Disorder, and never ONCE was committed involuntarily to treat him. If he had been the NICS check would have caught it and he never would have been able to purchase a gun.

Culture? No. If mass shootings were a cultural construct they would happen far more frequently than they do. European nations tend to take a far different approach to health care and mental health in particular and don't rely on drugs as the only tool for the job.

Islamic extremism(as we view it) IS a cultural phenomenon that is derived from the Islamic Conservatism that prevails in the Islamic world.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: crazyewok


Id say the USA spends billions on background checks on Muslims.

Otherwise what else does the NSA do? Sit on there arses twiddling there thumbs?


That would be illegal and would cause a very large lawsuit against the U.S. government. The NSA can't do background checks on all Muslims simply for being Muslims. However, i am sure they check those people who do travel to the Middle East, whether they are Muslims or not.




edit on 11-1-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: correct to whom I was responding to.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

I'm with ya. Every member I expected to miss the point has and it's hilarious how they're trying to make their stance fit when it simply can't lol



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80




It is simply about not blaming the actions of the many for the actions of the few!


Tell that to rich people,bankers,and corporations, and GUN OWNERS.

That have tens of thousands of LAWS regulating their conduct.

But wait.

'Don't' make generalizations!

And it IS those socially acceptable generalizations that create those LAWS.

But it's a different story when it comes to muslims!

Hell no that dog don't hunt.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: neformore

I've scared THE CRAP out of AT LEAST 2 people who were doing STUPID acts with guns,ONE was aiming at me( He was just an army mechanic so it was easy)
I couldn't care LESS about what popular cultural demands put out as MY shortcomings.
I AM NOT responasble for abberant behavior so I refuse to be connected to it IN ANY WAY,much kess accept worthless gun laws to disarm all of us.
I am an expert marksman and my family has always had them. I like the nastier looking types of course.
AND the ONE FACTOR you don't think about I HAVEN'T murdered ANYONE, so I am exempt from ANY judgement from ANYONE.


And of course you are NOT authorized BY NATIONAL law to take them ,so I can repel the Govt.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Look neo, I get what you're saying. I really do.

I get what the OP is about, I really do.

But I don't think the subject is as simple as people are trying to make it.

There is a reason why Macrocosms of issues that are derived from Microcosms don't make for very good discussions when the goal is a subtle message.

I still think it is important to have this discussion and try to at least deal with it honestly.

But you are being hard headed and needlessly combative.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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14 pages of people pissed off, not realizing that they are actually pissed off at what they think the OP is saying because of their own deeply held irrational beliefs about Muslims...

The irony is so thick and delicious.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:20 PM
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a reply to: neformore

I suspect my reply will be buried among a slew of posts. For those that haven't realized the OP is asking why should Muslims be held responsible for not speaking out against terrorist actions when it has nothing to do with them. The assumption is that it is completely ridiculous for gun owners and advocates of the 2nd amendment to be held responsible for violence committed with guns by others.

Allow me to adjust your analogy slightly.

If a single death were committed in the name of the 2nd amendment (praise thee!™) then gun owners should/would have to do everything in their power to speak out against those actions. This is natural.

An even worse scenario would be if average 2nd amendment supporters implicitly justified the violence because they were offended the victims were speaking out against the 2nd amendment. "They got what they deserved for not supporting the 2nd amendment. After all, it's only natural that if you are going to try and insult the 2nd amendment that you should expect to be executed by gone toting maniacs that will kill you for disrespectfully offending them."

Gun owners and advocates would in fact have a responsibility to stand up and speak out against the violence.

Example,
Victim: "The right to bear arms is wrong. I hate it!"
Fanatic: "Die now!"

I don't think the right to bear arms wold last very long if supporters didn't actively speak out against that type of violence.



edit on 11-1-2015 by compressedFusion because: changed "speaking" to "were speaking"



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:24 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Thus the problem.

People want to make the distinction between 'wrong', and 'right'.

And taking political issues like 'gun ownership' to another political issue such as 'terrorists' does more harm than good.

Gun owners are compared to be 'far right'.

Terrorists are 'far right'.

But now comes along thread saying don't be mean to the poor little muslims,

Then they turn around, and do the same thing to gun owners, and others.

When it comes to politics. It's ALWAYS the pot calling the kettle.

And when it comes to politics again.

I find it laughable when people will defend those 'right wing neocons over in the middle east clinging to their guns, and religion, and then bash ours.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:25 PM
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I would say that a person from Britain where they have given up their rights to bear even pointed sticks has little business even starting a post about Right-to-Bear-Arms. The Second Amendment doesn't even apply to such persons.

Perhaps this person would be better off speaking to their own legislatures about creating a thug culture who can now prey on a disarmed populace?

Just posting a hypothetical. You know, just being tropically satirical.



posted on Jan, 11 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: neformore

You're kidding me, right? With all of the current events, even more signs we need armed civilians, you are complaining about the way people choose to murder others?

You do realize it's been proven that stricter gun laws = higher gun crime, right? Washington DC has a ban on guns, the highest gun crime in the nation. Other studies have been done and it's NOT EVEN A DEBATE anymore. I won't tell you how to feel, but I can straight up say you're wrong, and it can be proven.

www.bostonmagazine.com...

www.theacru.org...


edit on 11-1-2015 by deadlyhope because: (no reason given)



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