It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

How can being faithless be more important then any other Evil act.

page: 2
8
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 09:55 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Good and evil are constructs of the human mind. There is no clear definition of what either of those things are.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Well, I mean to ask am I good or evil in his (or god's) mind. I should have clarified.




posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:04 AM
link   

originally posted by: Jenisiz
a reply to: ElohimJD

I'm a giving and kind person and there isn't a lick of faith in me. To require a belief in any deity for people to be respectful and helpful is a pretty grim outlook and imho, pathetic. I don't need an invisible man in the clouds watching me to act like a nice human being...but apparently religious people do. Welp, just another group of individuals unable to accept that they control their own lives...


The OP is about faith.

To have faith in God is to believe He created all that exists. To believe He is the Creator. If you believe he is the Creator, and He gave laws to govern the Creation; why would I be so prideful as to think I can determine what is good and evil in an existence Created by God in which God Himself provided living laws for already?

You have faith in your own human reasoning. You feel your morality is correct; just like all others in the thread, but each of you have a different definition of this personal morality. How can any of you be "right" when you are not in agreement in all things?

I have faith in God the Creator of all things. I do not have faith in my own human reasoning because I am selfish by nature; and "Because the carnal mind (human nature) is enmity (disagreement) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God (desires their own personal morality over God's), neither indeed can be." -Romans 8:7

Our nature desires to rule itself, as can be readily seen in this threads responses, because we are carnal physical beings that are selfish by nature (we need food, water, shelter and other things to survive). God created us this way on purpose.

We do not want another's ways to "rule over" our own by our very nature. God has given mankind the present age to do just this. Live according to what seems right to each individual mind. This is not the age for salvation, it is the age of mankind's self rule.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:04 AM
link   
a reply to: rickymouse




All you have to do to be saved is to believe in god and be baptized.



Not true. Demons believe God exists don't they? And baptism is what saved people do, baptism doesn't save. If it did then Jesus would have told the thief on the cross "Alas, I wish you could get off this cross and be baptized, rats friend, your heart is in the right place, but we can't baptize you to complete your salvation, sorry."



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Entreri06

First of all, having faith in general terms is not specific to the Christian belief system, which is the one I personally identify with, although I am not one to go to Church and reinforce the toxic paradigm that doing so feeds into.

People have faith in all manner of belief systems, from the traditional, to the new age, from the half way sensible, to the absurd.

However, it is not whether a person professes to faith or not which dictates their worth as a person, and their usefulness to society, or their goodness as a person. There are people on this planet who have no particular faith, and are none the less beautiful in the soul, just as there are Godless bastards out there who would eat children if it was not illegal, and consider ways of doing it regardless. There are also people out there who use their beliefs to justify horrific acts, just as there are folk out there who have faith, and give love and care to anyone who crosses their path while in need of it.

The sooner there is an understanding that people, if they must be judged at all, should be judged on their individual merits, not on the badges that people place upon them, the better.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:09 AM
link   

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: Entreri06

Faith is belief in God as Creator and Lawgiver.

Without Faith you cannot determine what good (agreement with God) and evil (disagreement with God) is.

Therefore you create your own personal definition of "good" and "evil" according to what seems right to the individual; rather than what God says.

7.2 billion different personal definitions of "good" and "evil" produces chaos and conflict (current age).
7.2 billion individuals agreeing with God's definition of "good" and "evil" by FAITH produces peace and agreement (age to come).

Faith requires obedience to all of God's Laws, because you have faith in God as LAWGIVER. Therefore, anyone who is faithful towards God, would also be faithful towards keeping God's laws (not murdering, not raping babies etc.) You cannot separate faith in the lawgiver as God and the Laws which He created to be lived by the faithful.

It seems many of those you think are "faithful" do not live by the Laws of God and are in fact liars.

God Bless,


Lmao!!! 7.2 billion people don't agree on anything!

Plus seems to me slavery would be considered a far mor evil act then not believing in magic babies, and slavery is endorced by the bible..



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: ElohimJD

But people dont liev according to gods laws, otherwise they would be killing adulterers and fornicators etc.
even those who clainm to be christian could not live by the laws laid out in the bible because they are not compatible with a modern society that doesnt belief in killing on a whim.


Excellent comment!

Back in ancient Israel God was working with a physical family (Nation) physically to represent true spiritual works in the future, once access to God's Holy Spirit in the minds of mankind was made available (after Pentecost 31AD).

Many of the things done physically by ancient Israel represent spiritual truths to God's people today. Also repentance was not possible in ancient Israel because God's Spirit was not available. Repentance is possible today in the mind of the faithful.

That having been said, you mentioned "modern society doesn't believe in killing on a whim".

Why would executing a criminal be considered "on a whim" unless you disagree with the Law in question?

In modern society God executes judgement for breaking sins not his people, in ancient Israel God had his people do the executions.

Also modern society is a democracy, God's people are not. Mankind makes the laws of mankind by popular vote, God's people obey the laws of God.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:15 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ElohimJD

I'd rather disagree with God. He is so demanding and I don't like his demands or the way he goes about distributing his edicts (human preachers/crazy peo.. *ahem* "mystics").


I understand your reasoning in this free choice, you will find a far greater number of members who agree with your choice.

It is by design that you view things in this manner at this time.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:15 AM
link   

originally posted by: Jenisiz
a reply to: ElohimJD

I'm a giving and kind person and there isn't a lick of faith in me. To require a belief in any deity for people to be respectful and helpful is a pretty grim outlook and imho, pathetic. I don't need an invisible man in the clouds watching me to act like a nice human being...but apparently religious people do. Welp, just another group of individuals unable to accept that they control their own lives...



Like there has never been a good person who wasn't a Christian LMAO!!!! Hahahahahaha



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: Entreri06

Faith is belief in God as Creator and Lawgiver.

Without Faith you cannot determine what good (agreement with God) and evil (disagreement with God) is.


I take offense to that. As a well-intentioned Atheist, I know quite well the difference between good and evil. I also know VERY well, and it has been demonstrated QUITE recently that faith can actually CLOUD that distinction between good and evil. To the point that slaughtering a group of innocent cartoonists is considered "good" by some people.

So, if your definition of "good", is anything your god decrees (including murdering gays, "witches", people who work on Sunday, etc), then I'm quite happy to be "evil" in your eyes.

At least I'm not murdering cartoonists, bombing abortion clinics, protesting soldier's funerals, or molesting little children.

If that makes me evil, I accept that with the widest grin I can manage.


This post is a wonderful example of the natural mind. This is human nature and all mankind will feel this way without God intervening. There is nothing wrong with being natural at this time, it is the purpose for the present age; for each human being to determine for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

God has designed other ages for the contrast to be established. This is not that time.

You take offense, because of pride in your own human reasoning, you are right in your own eyes (by design). To agree with God is to be humble.

God Bless,
So am I good, or am I evil? It's a very simple question.


You are human.

Human nature of and by itself is against God, therefore our nature is to be evil (disagree with God).

As a human you were created with the capability to choose a different way of thinking than the natural mind. You have to potential for both good and evil. I cannot say whether you are good or evil, I am a man; only God can judge the minds of His Creation in spirit and in truth.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:19 AM
link   

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: Entreri06

Faith is belief in God as Creator and Lawgiver.

Without Faith you cannot determine what good (agreement with God) and evil (disagreement with God) is.


I take offense to that. As a well-intentioned Atheist, I know quite well the difference between good and evil. I also know VERY well, and it has been demonstrated QUITE recently that faith can actually CLOUD that distinction between good and evil. To the point that slaughtering a group of innocent cartoonists is considered "good" by some people.

So, if your definition of "good", is anything your god decrees (including murdering gays, "witches", people who work on Sunday, etc), then I'm quite happy to be "evil" in your eyes.

At least I'm not murdering cartoonists, bombing abortion clinics, protesting soldier's funerals, or molesting little children.

If that makes me evil, I accept that with the widest grin I can manage.


This post is a wonderful example of the natural mind. This is human nature and all mankind will feel this way without God intervening. There is nothing wrong with being natural at this time, it is the purpose for the present age; for each human being to determine for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

God has designed other ages for the contrast to be established. This is not that time.

You take offense, because of pride in your own human reasoning, you are right in your own eyes (by design). To agree with God is to be humble.

God Bless,
So am I good, or am I evil? It's a very simple question.


You are human.

Human nature of and by itself is against God, therefore our nature is to be evil (disagree with God).

As a human you were created with the capability to choose a different way of thinking than the natural mind. You have to potential for both good and evil. I cannot say whether you are good or evil, I am a man; only God can judge the minds of His Creation in spirit and in truth.

God Bless,
If man was created in God's image, why is it in our nature to disagree with God?

Is because of the Satan's gift to us of the knowledge of good and evil? If this is the case, why would God choose to keep that knowledge from us in the first place?



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Entreri06

Religious programming is more important than free will.


Within free will there lays the choice to agree with God.

God Bless,


or the choice to disagree and be cordially invited into his custom decorated gas chamber.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: ElohimJD

one question :

is slavery immoral ?


Excellent question!

Slavery as punishment for sin is more merciful then death.

Which is why when we sin we are held captive (slave) to our carnal human nature.

To be truly free, one must first be free of the slavery within the carnal human mind. We hold ourselves slaves to our own human reasoning by nature.

God frees us from this carnal slavery by renewing the mind to think spiritually about a matter (what the Creator says) instead of carnally about it (What I say).

Slavery as national policy is not moral. God Created mankind to be "free moral agents"; that by it definition means slavery is not part of that perfect design. We enslave ourselves by our own human reasoning (I am right, God is wrong), Our nature becomes our master, and chaos exists.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:26 AM
link   
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You should look at that thread I posted. I asked pretty much the same thing to all of ATS and still couldn't a straight answer.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:28 AM
link   
a reply to: ElohimJD

Until you can prove that statement, I'm going to say that it is a matter of biology, social interaction, and personal experiences for the reasons that I think like I do.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

If man was created in God's image, why is it in our nature to disagree with God?

Is because of the Satan's gift to us of the knowledge of good and evil? If this is the case, why would God choose to keep that knowledge from us in the first place?


That knowledge... @ times 1 has considered,
WHY if you know you are a evil being and already have access to the ignorance of those who do not recognize evil or good
would you then teach said beings of evil and good knowing they would see you as evil? UNLESS you were preparing them for a future that YOU NU was going to ENCOUNTER THEM...
I still haven't figured this out unless there was some deception within the text data to further manipulate the masses to fear some reptile like being(s) and why they are paying them attention in fear and avoiding they will never look at the potentially malevolent being(s) that may be directly in secret contact with the who were previously ignorant to good and evil...

So 1 does not think its in human nature ScientificRailgun to disagree with GOD more so then its just been embedded-programmed into the human psyche to disagree with GOD in order to create a disconnection from GOD, why at the same time construction a access point to the disconnected for another being(s)

NAMASTE*******
edit on 1/9/15 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:48 AM
link   
a reply to: TzarChasm

Or scattered across a street in little bits because you were just bombed due to a difference in beliefs. Religion is man's most deadliest of weapons. To actually be discussing morals of using a nuke is absurd...this is no difference only 10,000 times more worse. Christians and Other Religions have been such great moral role models over the years...crusades, holocausts ect...you go invisible man in the clouds, keep kicking us down the "word" so we can warp it and use it to "clean" house of all the sinners...



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: Entreri06

Faith is belief in God as Creator and Lawgiver.

Without Faith you cannot determine what good (agreement with God) and evil (disagreement with God) is.


I take offense to that. As a well-intentioned Atheist, I know quite well the difference between good and evil. I also know VERY well, and it has been demonstrated QUITE recently that faith can actually CLOUD that distinction between good and evil. To the point that slaughtering a group of innocent cartoonists is considered "good" by some people.

So, if your definition of "good", is anything your god decrees (including murdering gays, "witches", people who work on Sunday, etc), then I'm quite happy to be "evil" in your eyes.

At least I'm not murdering cartoonists, bombing abortion clinics, protesting soldier's funerals, or molesting little children.

If that makes me evil, I accept that with the widest grin I can manage.


This post is a wonderful example of the natural mind. This is human nature and all mankind will feel this way without God intervening. There is nothing wrong with being natural at this time, it is the purpose for the present age; for each human being to determine for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

God has designed other ages for the contrast to be established. This is not that time.

You take offense, because of pride in your own human reasoning, you are right in your own eyes (by design). To agree with God is to be humble.

God Bless,
So am I good, or am I evil? It's a very simple question.


You are human.

Human nature of and by itself is against God, therefore our nature is to be evil (disagree with God).

As a human you were created with the capability to choose a different way of thinking than the natural mind. You have to potential for both good and evil. I cannot say whether you are good or evil, I am a man; only God can judge the minds of His Creation in spirit and in truth.

God Bless,
If man was created in God's image, why is it in our nature to disagree with God?

Is because of the Satan's gift to us of the knowledge of good and evil? If this is the case, why would God choose to keep that knowledge from us in the first place?


Excellent question!

God Created us as "free moral agents"; He did not want mindless robot followers as a family, but creative, wondrously unique, free thinking children to share in the Creation. However obedience in free moral agents cannot be "Created" by fiat; it must be "chosen" because of experience.

The angelic realm was also Created as free moral agents, with this freedom comes a choice to agree or disagree with the Creator, but because angels are composed of spirit (thought, minds, not physical) once they choose to disagree with the Creator the will always disagree until destroyed by the Creator.

1/3rd of all angels have made the free choice to disagree with their Creator and followed Satan in rebellion.

For Elohim (the God family) of which all mankind was created to eventually become (final creation), God had to make them physical (composed of physical matter) so that it can "change", spiritual being cannot once they choose to disagree.

God wants mankind to change from a nature against His ways (disagreement) to a nature for His ways (agreement). That is what the word repentance mean (to change direction).

For the vast majority of mankind God determined 2 physical lifetimes to accomplish this final creation. This is the part most "Christians" have no knowledge of, but it is critical to understanding why God Created mankind with a nature against his.

In the present age (began after Eden-present day) God gave mankind a period of time to live according to what seems right to each individual, for each mind to firmly establish what they think is good and evil. They will live their first life in this age and die as all men do. Then after the 1000 year reign of the Kingdom of God on Earth, all who have lived and died during the present age will be resurrected to physical life a second time, this time is called the "Great White Thrown Judgement" in scripture.

During your second life in another age to come, you will live according to the Laws of God (contrast). You will experience first hand the peace and joy that comes from all mankind living in agreement with the laws of the Creator.

You will still retain all memories and thoughts from this present life to serve as the ultimate contrast between living what "I think is right" (currently) and living what "God say is right" (in a future age). Only than can mankind make a truly free choice to live according to what God says is right (salvation achieved, Elohim creation completed, you were "made" in the image of God over time) or what I think is right (sin, death).

In the end after living 2 full lifetimes all mankind will have the free choice to choose how to live, one way which we know leads to death (first life) and one way which we know leads to life (second life).

You will have all the evidence of carnal human nature as experienced in the present age within your mind, and all the evidence of spiritual Godly nature as experienced in the age to come within your mind. This is the only way to truly Create mankind in God's image.

God is a free moral agent who chooses sacrifice for the betterment of others at the expense of selfish desires (Agape), only in this perfect plan can mankind come to be created in this same image. It simply starts with the age of carnal human natures rule under the influence of Satan, there is more of the plan to come.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:51 AM
link   

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Entreri06

Religious programming is more important than free will.


Within free will there lays the choice to agree with God.

God Bless,


or the choice to disagree and be cordially invited into his custom decorated gas chamber.


It is sick what mankind is capable of in an age ruled by individual definitions of good and evil.

Some man somewhere thought this choice was "good"... sick.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:53 AM
link   
a reply to: ElohimJD




To have faith in God is to believe He created all that exists. To believe He is the Creator. If you believe he is the Creator, and He gave laws to govern the Creation; why would I be so prideful as to think I can determine what is good and evil in an existence Created by God in which God Himself provided living laws for already?


There are some gigantic leaps of logic there, in that statement. What laws did God give to the Creation? Laws like "gravity" or laws like stoning rebellious teenagers?

You contend that it's "prideful" for one to believe that they know right from wrong, yet in the Bible, we are told that Adam and Eve DID know right from wrong AFTER they ate the forbidden fruit and were kicked out of God's Garden of Eden.



I have faith in God the Creator of all things. I do not have faith in my own human reasoning because I am selfish by nature; and "Because the carnal mind (human nature) is enmity (disagreement) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God (desires their own personal morality over God's), neither indeed can be." -Romans 8:7


So you believe in a God that created everything, even you, but HE created you immoral, self deceived and selfish?



This is not the age for salvation, it is the age of mankind's self rule.


This seems to contradict everything that Christianity stands for. I thought Jesus' death was the dawn of the age of Salvation.



posted on Jan, 9 2015 @ 10:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ElohimJD

Until you can prove that statement, I'm going to say that it is a matter of biology, social interaction, and personal experiences for the reasons that I think like I do.


"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence (proof) of things not seen (not physical but spiritual)."

I have faith in God, therefore I have all the proof needed, it is the carnally minded which require physical proof, which is the absence of faith and the purpose of the OP.

God Bless,




top topics



 
8
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join