Police who first arrived at scene in Paris left on their bikes; is this how you want the US police?

a reply to: Edumakated



I absolutely disagree with you.

I have a good number of friends, just so happen to be black, who were born in the projects area of the town we lived in. On a scale of 1-100, I was probably only native to an area some 8-12 notches higher than the projects.

The economy in these areas is amazingly low. People without work. People born into modern day servitude of low paying jobs, and rather limited opportunities compared to other people, even such as myself. And believe me, I had no silver spoon in my mouth.


Like myself and many of my friends we made our own opportunities happen. Many do not have the ability to see this due to the overwhelming nature of being born into a low economy area. An area, regardless of the density of "race", that is a particularly negative area in all respects, not to mention economy.



I am sad to say that I truly cannot see your opinion as being anything less than something teetering on the very brink of racism. I am NOT saying this to accuse or inflame as I do realize it is a word with a heavy onus and I am fully aware of that fact wishing there were a better word, but in the hopes that maybe you and others might review their outlook on the world around them.


Skin color does not indicate a proclivity to violence and "thugdom". Culture and immediate social surroundings play an exponentially greater role.


Just as I was born of european and native american ancestry and had no control over that fact of the genetic / economic / social lottery we are born into on a raffle ticket number, you nor anyone else has any better odds at coming out on top.

My statements regarding climbing out are meant to support the fact that human species demographics are not the sole factor in violence occuring. I myself was charged with assault and battery as a minor. And like my friends who do not share my pigmentation or ancestry, we all managed to work my way out.

I truly hope that both you and I, as well as everyone else, might someday come to the true understanding of things. And not have that understanding tainted by the views of others.



- NF

a reply to: nullafides

Pointing out facts is not racism. I'm black, so a long way from being a racist. Gun violence is a scourge, but you absolutely cannot discuss it, much less come up with solutions unless you are truthful about the victims, perpetrators, and causes.

If you look at the various stats available from the FBI and even local law enforcement agencies, you will see that the vast majority of the victims and perpetrators of gun violence are black. Simple google search will pull up a wealth of information.

Here is a website that tracks the daily murders in Chicago and gives a breakdown. Almost 80% of the murder victims are black. 15% are hispanic. Only 7% are "other / white".

Chicago Murder Stats

You can also look up the Chicago Police department's own stats that they publish every year and it clearly tells you that the vast majority of the victims are known thugs.

Poverty is not the issue. If poverty were the issue, we'd expect to see much higher levels of white murders in poor white areas, but we don't. As I also stated, if the causal factor were poverty, then we would have also seen the same levels of carnage in the black community prior to the 1970s but you don't. The only thing that changed negatively since then (you can't argue racism is greater now than then) is the out of wedlock birth rate which is directly correlated with LBJ's War on Poverty policies. Black community went from less than 25% out of wedlock birth rates in the 60s (which even then was considered a travesty per Daniel Moynihan's ground breaking report) to basically 75% now. This is the root of the problem. A breakdown of the family unit.

These kids are growing up fatherless, no jobs (thanks minimum wage and illegal immigration), poor schools (thanks teachers union), and basically feral young men. They fall into gang life and the fights are over drug turf. The community is culturally bankrupt. All one has to do is look on instagram, youtube, music videos and you will see the fascination with guns, violence, and thug culture. Denying it will not solve it.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: nullafides



These kids are growing up fatherless, no jobs (thanks minimum wage and illegal immigration), poor schools (thanks teachers union), and basically feral young men. They fall into gang life and the fights are over drug turf. The community is culturally bankrupt. All one has to do is look on instagram, youtube, music videos and you will see the fascination with guns, violence, and thug culture. Denying it will not solve it.

Nailed it.

Second.

a reply to: SpaDe_

Excellent post.

a reply to: Edumakated

>thinking a job below minimum wage is a job worth having.

what planet are you living on?

>blaming teachers unions for poor schools.

eh you have a semi-point, it's more systemic than that, it's the way we measure "bad schools" that's partially to blame, test-scores are useless but make great political/campaign points.

a reply to: grandmakdw



A classic example of taking one piece of evidence in one instance and making it say what you want it to say.

The thousands of examples of NOT having the police armed caused a faster and more peaceful solution to criminal situations and also stops the police from being brutal and just shooting without thinking have been ignored by the OP.

Plus as you somebody else said, if the police carry guns and the general public have guns, then so do the criminals.
Gun crime is very rare in the UK and I've never even seen a gun in my 30 years here apart from when I was in the countryside doing some hunting.
I also know that if I have an encounter with a criminal that there is an extremely tiny chance that he/she would be carrying a gun, at worst it'll be a knife, and I know which one I'd rather face, you can't kill somebody at 20 odd feet with a knife.

I personally would not accept the police carrying guns EVEN if it meant stopping something like this.

And yeah, lastly, it's not your country to dictate to, so buzz off buddy!

a reply to: b14warrior

Who needs guns when we have Scotsmen who duff up terrorists.




Don't want our police carrying guns all the time...also don't need em.

a reply to: b14warrior

I personally would not accept the police carrying guns EVEN if it meant stopping something like this.

We have seen enough examples that these things have happened regardless of police carrying weapons in Germany, The Netherlands and the US.

a reply to: Edumakated



Just. Not. Even. Going. To. Respond.

Viewpoints are like rectums. Numbers can be skewed in as many ways.

'nuff said. no more to be said.



-NF

a reply to: Painterz

You really think criminal carry guns because cops carry guns, REALLY? are you sure its not because other criminals almost ALWAYS have guns!?

your statistics prove nothing!

a reply to: Edumakated

Denying these problems has become socially acceptable and applauded

If i embrace that black men are society's victims, I'm a civil rights champion.

I should note that I'm not saying I think the US police should stop carrying guns. That genie is well and truly out of the bottle, and there are so many guns sloshing around America that it just wouldn't work.

America is a hopelessly violent society and you're doomed to a future of ever-increasing violence and endless school shootings. And I think that's very very sad and tragic.


Europe is not like this however. Guns are incredibly rare. Gun crime is incredibly rare. The answer to this atrocity is not for us to give up our freedoms and liberties and protections, that's exactly what the terrorists want.


And statistic-based evidence proves everything. That's how science works.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I wasn't implying it happened because of unarmed police.

It happened because of crazy irrational Muslims, "defending" their faith.

I was implying the situation was worse off because the police were unarmed and
once one was shot the others fled the scene
rather than trying to stop what was going on
they fled because they were unarmed
and the perpetrators actually walked casually from the scene of the crime
according to news reports
The "approved" armed police arrived too late to intervene or arrest.

originally posted by: Painterz
I should note that I'm not saying I think the US police should stop carrying guns. That genie is well and truly out of the bottle, and there are so many guns sloshing around America that it just wouldn't work.

America is a hopelessly violent society and you're doomed to a future of ever-increasing violence and endless school shootings. And I think that's very very sad and tragic.


Europe is not like this however. Guns are incredibly rare. Gun crime is incredibly rare. The answer to this atrocity is not for us to give up our freedoms and liberties and protections, that's exactly what the terrorists want.


And statistic-based evidence proves everything. That's how science works.

I actually blame TV, movies, video games for the violence in the US

They have trained the young people deep in their subconscious
that the only way to solve a problem is to kill the person "causing" the problem
That is the role model set by the majority of prime time TV, movies and video games

a reply to: b14warrior

In my many more years than you in the UK, I here in the US
have never seen a real life gun battle
or real life shooting of anything other than a target
Oops, I did see rabbit shot once that was destroying a garden
way way out in the country near a corn field.

Your idea of what the US is like comes from TV, Movies, and Video Games
our training ground for gun violence

The US "in person" is nothing like what you see in the media

I have lived in every area of the US, being a military brat/spouse and
can tell you that nowhere have I actually even seen an open carry
by anyone other than on a policeman's belt, in a military parade or march,
or a hunting gun
locked in someone's glass faced gun rack.

The news only shows the sensationalized

If we were to take the news as a generalization of what a populace is like

Well, right now we'd think all Brits were pedophiles
(which I know they are not)

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: b14warrior



Well, right now we'd think all Brits were pedophiles
(which I know they are not)

To be more precise, all our british entertainers would be paedophiles.
But then to be fair the USA has its fair share of those too.
Just check out Boys Town, Nebraska and the Larry King paedophile scandal.
Or NAMBLA. Wherever you have power and corruption, you have every kind of deviant acts going on behind the scenes.
Hence the phrase "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Paedophilia exists in every country on earth, Im sure of it.

EDIT: I live in London, I have seen real guns, even here.

a reply to: OneManArmy

I lived in Manchester during the riots back in the day.
I was offered guns in a pub loo in Stockport....the pubs name was the Riflemans arms lol.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: OneManArmy

I lived in Manchester during the riots back in the day.
I was offered guns in a pub loo in Stockport....the pubs name was the Riflemans arms lol.

A couple years ago I see a guy pull out a Luger.
And I have seen a sawn off shotgun, but that was a long time ago.

Guns have become a lot easier to get a hold of these days. You just need to know who to ask.

The Riflemans Arms, lol.
When I was a teenager it was common knowledge that if you wanted a gun you could get one at the Alma Arms in Enfield.

a reply to: grandmakdw

At no point did I say that anything about guns being everywhere in the States. That wasn't even part of my point.
My point was that police with guns doesn't seem to make things better in a country where not many criminals have guns either.

a reply to: b14warrior

In France, it looks like what you call Police are not really much more than glorified meter maids.

If they can not carry weapons, run from crime scenes
and must wait for "real police" to arrive
what good are they?

I would not call a policeman without the means to stop a crime a policeman at all
I'd call them a social crime ticket writer

I also think that if people have to wait for police to show up that
can stop a crime
and they don't show up until it is too late
well that is not stopping crime at all

One person said earlier in the thread that they prefer cops without the means to stop crimes
that the victims are not worth the trouble that comes with cops having guns

What that says to me is the perpetrators life is more valuable than the victims life.
Which appears to be the stance liberals/progressives and socialists are taking.
Feel sorry for the perpetrator and save their life, ignore the victim and let the crime happen.

I hope that person never has to wait for the "real police" to show up
while they are being tortured or killed
just to keep guns out of the hands of the police
because that will happen more and more
once criminals realize they can get away with anything with impunity
leaving the detectives to try and identify them and try and find them