a reply to: Subaeruginosa
My friend, and I say that sincerely, I can only assume you are either a resident of the EU proper, or one of our kissing cousins (and yes, I am WELL
aware that the UK is part of the EU, and does not equate visiting Europe the way a vast number of americans seem to think)....
Whereas I am no fan nor proponent of the obscene extremities that our countries police departments have been geared up between armament and
Let's be honest about something. Really, truly, honest.
The UK is barely larger by a smidge than my own home state of Missouri. Now, let's look at the numerical statistics of populations...
UK Gov Source...
Population Estimates for UK, England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, Mid-2011 and Mid-2012 Released:
08 August 2013 Next edition: 26 June 2014 This product is designated as National Statistics All editions of this release Contact Pete Large
Population Estimates Unit firstname.lastname@example.org Telephone: +44 (0)1329 444661 Categories: Population, Population Change, Population Estimates,
Population Estimates by Age and Sex Frequency of release: Annually Language: English Geographical coverage: UK Geographical breakdown: Country,
Local Authority and County The population of the UK was estimated to be 63.7 million in mid-2012, up from the estimated 63.3 million in
mid-2011. This represents a growth of 419,900 (0.7%) in the year to 30 June 2012.
Now, let's take a look at the US population. The numbers below are from from 2010 US Census reporting.
U.S. and World Population Clock: United States 321,362,789 (3rd largest population in the world)
The UK experienced 10.3 murders per million citizens of the UK.
The US experienced Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4
My point is this. We live in entirely two different petri dishes.
The US is 20 times the population of the UK. Greater populace, high probability of deaths. Percentages do tell the overall story of the US having ten
times as many gun related deaths than the UK. Our deaths involving guns is ten times higher. IMHO, the likelyhood for "social order" and fewer
violent deaths (particularly gun related deaths) is only going to be exponential when you are dealing with such a multiplied magnitude of a difference
in population. The greater density of almost anything, the more pressure, and the greater potential for strife.
Second, look at the core differences between the two societies in consideration of gun related deaths. In the UK, personal gun use is outlawed except
when it comes to grandfathered scenarios involving hunting rifles. In the USA, we are a prolifically armed populace. In the US, our police have
become aggressively militarized. In the UK, the police are largely unarmed. This is due to the idea, IMHO, that an unarmed society is one that does
not require arms to police it.
Third, although an all in all safer nation due to the factors I mentioned above even if not truly fair IMHO, I have never personally known someone to
have been murdered. That is until New Year's eve 2002 in the Lake District of the UK. A friend and brother in arms who we were all out trying to
kill ourselves with alcohol went missing the next morning, New Year's day. After hours of frantic phone calls and people searching their
neighborhoods, my mate was finally found. His head was bludgeoned in with a nearby cinder block. Is this a truly fair statement to make? No. But,
it is my personal experience. I feel the need to say that the working class town I have friends and family in is also a place of desperation. It is
not at all unheard of to be able to have someone kneecapped for 50 quid.
Given these two factors, I do not believe a comparison between the two nations declaring one barbaric and the other civilized. So far apart on the
spectrum, it's almost apples and oranges in my opinion. I fully expect plenty of those that take offense or plain opposition to my viewpoint. Fair
enough. Everyone has a rectum.
On a personal note, It has been my experience in the North of England (Lake District, to be exact), if two people have an issue and do not appear to
actually have the intent of killing one another or doing sincere damage to property (think a plate glass window), Men are allowed to be men. I
personally feel this allows for a steam valve release when it comes to escalating issues. One is the victor, one is the loser. There are no deaths.
Lessons learned. Now, I state this is in the North of England, and specifically not down around London, where I'd imagine the culture to be vastly
different. It still says something about the society. In my mind, a positive one.
No, not everything I stated above is 100% the case at all points, but, I do believe it is germane to the discussion at hand.