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yet another masonic question

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posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 03:04 AM
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Unless i am mistaken the freemasons (regaredless of religion) refer to their deity as "the grand architect of the universe". now is it just me or does this lend itself to the theory that masons are aware of life on other planets.
i live in england and i am aware that masons give a great amount of money to the life boat asociation and many of their lodges have names such as the lodge of the ancient mariner... do they see themselves as "shipwrecked" space travellers?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by the dustman]




posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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Sounds more like they're aware of the existence of the universe, and believe that a supreme being is the cause of it. I'm sure some individual Masons believe that there is life on other planets, but I don't see how that quote implies an institutional belief in extraterrestrial life.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 09:57 AM
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Typically we Masons refer to the diety as the Great Architect of the Universe. It is no different than saying God, or the term one's particular faith uses. We use this term because as Freemasonry is a speculative craft based upon the occult traditions of time inmemorial and transmitted through a system of allegory using Operative Masonry as a metaphore. Thus we use the term Great Architect.... because in laymans terms Freemasonry is built upon the principles of Building or operative (acutal, physical,) Masonry. Therefore in that light God or the supreme being would be the Great Architect of the Universe, the great builder of the Universe, as God created it all.

The names of our lodges varry a great deal, but they have nothing to do with Extraterrestrial influences of any sort nor supposed space travel. We do refer to ourselves as "traveling men" however and thus some lodges do choose a name to illustrate that point, however many choose names with no such connotation.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:04 AM
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Good to see you back on the board, Khonsu.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by the dustman
Unless i am mistaken the freemasons (regaredless of religion) refer to their deity as "the grand architect of the universe". now is it just me or does this lend itself to the theory that masons are aware of life on other planets.
i live in england and i am aware that masons give a great amount of money to the life boat asociation and many of their lodges have names such as the lodge of the ancient mariner... do they see themselves as "shipwrecked" space travellers?


"Grand Architect of the Universe" is a term for God often used in Masonry, but it was not invented in Masonry.

The term was first coined by Reformation theologian John Calvin, who used it over ten times to refer to God in his book "Institutes of the Christian Religion."

It was first used in Masonry in 1724, when Rev. James Anderson, Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of England, published "The Constitutions of the Freemasons." Brother Anderson, who was a Presbyterian minister and Calvinist, became acquainted with this term while studying Calvin in seminary, and saw that it would obviously fit well in Masonic symbolism because it expresses God in His character of Builder.

Personally, I do not see any relation to the term with life on other planets. Regardless of whether life exists elsewhere, God is, by definition, the Grand Architect of the Universe.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by the dustman
Unless i am mistaken the freemasons (regaredless of religion) refer to their deity as "the grand architect of the universe". now is it just me or does this lend itself to the theory that masons are aware of life on other planets.
i live in england and i am aware that masons give a great amount of money to the life boat asociation and many of their lodges have names such as the lodge of the ancient mariner... do they see themselves as "shipwrecked" space travellers?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by the dustman]


I dont know where the connection with space travel comes in to this analagy, not ruling it out.

This is a common question , one to which I have a standard answer:

dustman :-
Who do you think is the Architect of the Universe ?

Answer that and you have your answer.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 11:05 AM
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It seems interesting: An actual architect designs something, an actual mason helps build it. The architect doesn't create things, he just designs them and then overseas the building of it. So they view God as the designer and themselves as the builders of...the universe? I don't really know what I'm getting at here, but...it seems to make sense in my mind somehow. I think somebody mentioned that "Grand Architect of the Universe" was used after the name "Mason" was used, so I guess that would make my little idea...wrong.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
It seems interesting: An actual architect designs something, an actual mason helps build it. The architect doesn't create things, he just designs them and then overseas the building of it. So they view God as the designer and themselves as the builders of...the universe? I don't really know what I'm getting at here, but...it seems to make sense in my mind somehow. I think somebody mentioned that "Grand Architect of the Universe" was used after the name "Mason" was used, so I guess that would make my little idea...wrong.


A little over board but its a reasonable conclusion. I would not say that Masons see themselves as the Builders of the Univers, If you believe in a supreme being , you are his tools ,you do whatever he wants done.

an3rkist :-
Who do you think is the Architect of the Universe ?

The answer is in the question , whoever you beleive is the architect, that is who it is.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 01:39 PM
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That's right ML, I am not a mason but even that one is very simple to answer God put us here and we have built it up, we have built the sky scrapers and buildings and everything around us don't forget the world started with two naked people in a garden and we worked from there, therefore the grand architect layed out the foundation and we went to work. hence being the masons of the world. I think the masons are people who believe this and it is true while I am not one of them I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by the dustman
Unless i am mistaken the freemasons (regaredless of religion) refer to their deity as "the grand architect of the universe". now is it just me or does this lend itself to the theory that masons are aware of life on other planets.
i live in england and i am aware that masons give a great amount of money to the life boat asociation and many of their lodges have names such as the lodge of the ancient mariner... do they see themselves as "shipwrecked" space travellers?

[edit on 14-12-2004 by the dustman]


I don't know about the masons but this Order of the Silver STar or A∴ A∴ certainly believes in extraterrestrial contact. in the document link below, which is an account of their secret society, there are two references to ancient ET contact. Its interesting because this contact is linked with the building of a great temple, a great work, and references to political and religious interferance in the affairs of nations. You really have to read the document carefully.

www.luckymojo.com...

anybody that's interested, i have a draft "commentary" on this document here
www.michaelsharp.org...

where I basically try to draw out the meaning in the obtuse and dated language. It might be helpful to understand.

I'm just into the masonic documents as well but I've already found references to "the work" and the building of "the temple" so i wouldn't be surprised that at some point Mason's aren't given information (perhaps heavily veiled) on ancient ET contact.

as a side note, i think the true nature of "the work" is given in this Golden Dawn (another secret society) version of teh Tarot card The World.



first time I looked at this card I saw primitive ape like humans (us at the bottom) and a majestic race of overlords (ET contact at the top). The passive position of the poor inferiour creature at teh bottom, the wheel of culture, the lordly figure on top, its very suggestive I think you'll agree.

I think it becomes obvious when you start to unpack the secret orders of this world. Course I'm not saying anything new on this topic. this is just part of my own personal research on the topic.

we have a new image for the The World Card that strips it of its association with an ancient slave system. Egyptians were a slave society right!!!? and every secret order I've investigated draws its roots in that society. they all link themselves to the ancient orders there. Its very suggestive isn't it?

An ancient slave based society (which was probably founded on ET contact) is the inspiration for modern world secret societies who admittadely interfere in politics and religion (document abpove).

And everybody pretends this is a good thing??!?!?!






[edit on 15-12-2004 by michaelsharp]



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by michaelsharp
I don't know about the masons but this Order of the Silver STar or Aˆ Aˆ certainly believes in extraterrestrial contact. in the document link below, which is an account of their secret society, there are two references to ancient ET contact. Its interesting because this contact is linked with the building of a great temple, a great work, and references to political and religious interferance in the affairs of nations. You really have to read the document carefully.


Allow me to point out that the A.'.A.'. in and of itself does not teach the existence of extraterrestrial contact. The confusion concerning this is due to Aleister Crowley, the Order's founder, describing Aiwass as a "preter-human intelligence." Some people have mistakenly believed that "preter-human" is identical to "extraterrestrial", but of course it is not. The sam thing may be said of LAM.

Crowley himself later elaborated, claiming that the "preter-human intelligences" were manifestations of his own "Higher Self", i.e., the result of the expansion of consciousness through magickal practice. This is also what is taught by A.'.A.'. today.


as a side note, i think the true nature of "the work" is given in this Golden Dawn (another secret society) version of teh Tarot card The World.


For many years I have been a member of Builders of the Adytum, an organization founded as the successor to the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. The primary teaching tool of the Builders of the Adytum is the Tarot and Tarot symbolism, using the Golden Dawn Tarot symbolism as revised by Dr. Paul Foster Case, founder and past Supreme Magus of the Order.

If you are interested in the Hermetic and esoteric meanings of the Tarot, you are welcome to visit our website at:

www.bota.org...



posted on Dec, 15 2004 @ 06:04 PM
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it is my understanding that the whole theory that ancient egypt was a slave society has been said to be false and that they actually werent slaves



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 12:18 AM
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Yes this is correct, slaves were not used in the construction of the pyramids at Giza.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 04:30 AM
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Originally posted by Khonsu
Yes this is correct, slaves were not used in the construction of the pyramids at Giza.



They build them on their own free will? I wonder what they were told or given to have that much initiative.

[edit on 12-16-2004 by ShadowHasNoSource]



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource


They build them on their own free will? I wonder what they were told or given to have that much initiative.


I would assume the same initiative as construction crews have today, i.e., it's their job, and a guy's got to eat.



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by michaelsharp
I don't know about the masons but this Order of the Silver STar or Aˆ Aˆ certainly believes in extraterrestrial contact. in the document link below, which is an account of their secret society, there are two references to ancient ET contact. Its interesting because this contact is linked with the building of a great temple, a great work, and references to political and religious interferance in the affairs of nations. You really have to read the document carefully.


Allow me to point out that the A.'.A.'. in and of itself does not teach the existence of extraterrestrial contact. The confusion concerning this is due to Aleister Crowley, the Order's founder, describing Aiwass as a "preter-human intelligence." Some people have mistakenly believed that "preter-human" is identical to "extraterrestrial", but of course it is not. The sam thing may be said of LAM.

Crowley himself later elaborated, claiming that the "preter-human intelligences" were manifestations of his own "Higher Self", i.e., the result of the expansion of consciousness through magickal practice. This is also what is taught by A.'.A.'. today.


as a side note, i think the true nature of "the work" is given in this Golden Dawn (another secret society) version of teh Tarot card The World.


For many years I have been a member of Builders of the Adytum, an organization founded as the successor to the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. The primary teaching tool of the Builders of the Adytum is the Tarot and Tarot symbolism, using the Golden Dawn Tarot symbolism as revised by Dr. Paul Foster Case, founder and past Supreme Magus of the Order.

If you are interested in the Hermetic and esoteric meanings of the Tarot, you are welcome to visit our website at:

www.bota.org...


i think the issue of Crowley's Angel (the entitity he channeled) and the references in the AA document above are different. the two references to ET contact are striking.

there is this

" The interior Order was formed immediately after the first perception
of man's wider heritage had dawned upon the first of the adepts"

what is meant here by "wider heritage"

and also this

"It is a society which unites superior strength
to its own, and counts its members from more than one world."

society formed in antiquity when man realized a wider heritage? counting members from more than one world? These "seem" to be veiled references to ET contact.

ms



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by 99CentsStore
it is my understanding that the whole theory that ancient egypt was a slave society has been said to be false and that they actually werent slaves


i think this is a definitional issue. There were slaves in egypt, but the practices where different than what you usually think of as slavery

nefertiti.iwebland.com...

which leaves an opening to dismiss the idea of slavery. but i don't think you can reasonably argue slavery didn't exist in egypt

ms



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource


They build them on their own free will? I wonder what they were told or given to have that much initiative.


I would assume the same initiative as construction crews have today, i.e., it's their job, and a guy's got to eat.



slavery by any other name



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