Why do you believe or not believe in a "Creator"?

a reply to: Tangerine

Another great response, thank you Tangerine!

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Thank you for your suggestion (re link posted). However, I find that when a definition strife to add complexity then it serves to distort the truth. The simple truth is knowledge and belief cannot co-exist. If you have knowledge of something then it is not a belief. You can belief something and later with conclusive evidence it becomes knowledge but it not so in this case and has never been since time immemorial. Consider these beliefs and what they have in common with a creator, are they knowledge/truth:

• Ghost
• Santa clause
• Bigfoot
• Aliens
• Demons
• Mermaids
• Fairies
• Luck/Bad Luck
• The power of Prayer
• Voodoo

a reply to: EviLCHiMP


The short answer to all of your questions is: a better understanding of myself and my potential as a human being.

There's a bit of explanation behind this though, and it requires an understanding that belief in the gods (plural) is healthier, in my mind, than belief in a God (singular). One of them serves to enrich the human experience, the other serves to drain it of all meaning and purpose.

When the gods are treated as mythology, meaning plural and pantheistic, they act as a blueprint for the human condition. Their myths were records of humanistic achievements and failures. Belief in them was to acknowledge the common experiences, both good and bad, that we all, as humans, share in.

When the gods were transformed into a God though, the many becoming one, all of that importance was lost.

God, whether Yahweh or Allah (although they're the same thing) no longer represented what it meant to be human. Instead God became an untouchable fantasy: something more than human, incapable of relating to the human condition. As a monotheistic principle God misses the point of mythology, and it's importance to the human condition.

All that said, what is at stake by believing, or not believing, in the gods or a God is, as I said, a better understanding of myself and my potential as a human being.


~ Wandering Scribe

a reply to: Wandering Scribe

Beautiful and insightful response my friend, thank you for sharing yourself with us.

a reply to: toktaylor

I'm sorry, but I have no better way of saying this.
You really should read it.
Then you would see why I am kind of chuckling at the extension of your response.
And then there's this:

False Equivalence
Example
Marijuana and alcohol are both drugs. An ounce is about the same as three bottles. If you think one should be legal, you should think the same of the other.

All "knowledge" is only belief.
Which is why "belief" becomes "knowledge".
It's the same thing.
It should be noted as well, that what is considered "knowledge" changes.
A great deal of what was considered "knowledge" in the past is called a belief today.
Which suggests something.

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

I would love to believe in a creator or afterlife or some such. It must be great for all those Christians and followers of Islam to have it all sussed out and sorted. I can't accept that mindset, I only have to look around me and see the reality of our existence. How many are being killed, raped and tortured right now, all across the world? How many are starving and living a life of dreadful circumstance?

Those that believe in reincarnation or rebirth haven't thought it through or they would realise that what awaits is every pain, death and torture imaginable...still I suppose for them it's all good...all they have to do is detach themselves from this life and jump off the wheel.

Of course I can't speak for anyone else and what motivates them but in the main I see religion as a flight from reality and a sad indictment to the sanity of our species. I see most religions as death cults insofar as the promise is always beyond and after life.

The only faith I have is in myself and those around me that I trust and love. That is not to say that I am an atheist or have no sense of wonder at the universe or my own existence. It is just that...on a Friday the mosque in my street is the recipient of all the happy followers that pass along. On a Sunday all the churches in my area seem pretty busy as I drive past...it fills me with a little sadness at the shallowness of it all.

Midicon

Double post

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
I believe god is a wonderful group of programmers.

If there is a creator they are a lousy programmer : most of their code the they wrote is redundant.

They way they chose to make a human face is very inefficient ... youtu.be/wFY_KPFS3LA?t=32s
[ it's as if there wasn't a designed end-point ]

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

What do you personally believe you have to gain by believing in a God?
What do you personally believe you have to lose by believing in a God?
What do you personally believe you have to gain by not believing in a God?
What do you personally believe you have to lose by not believing in a God?

1) A sense of security and hope.
2) I would feel diminutive comparison to him.
3) Freedom of thought from such a confounding concept.
4) The sense of community shared by "believers".

I believe that all beings change from one thing to another and are evolving. You see it in nature. Consciousness also evolves. I do not think human religions are giving a good view of the true metaphysical nature. Just because religions are not perfect at describing the metaphysical on all levels do not mean the meta physical do not exists.

I am at the place where energized body states from meditation exists, probability fields and synchronicity is naturally existing around me on both quantum and higher level abstractions. Nothing is really physical. Everything is just energy in one form or another playing the game of being.

The question is will humanity survive long enough to evolve from homo sapiens sapiens to homo sapiens spiritus. Let's hope so .

a reply to: OzTiger

Buddy we are some nasty clever Monkeys with a capacity for true evil beyond both measure and belief. We also possess the ability to adapt to just about any condition or surrounding. War is what we do best, most lightly by design.

I think the Anunnaki should be scared of us this time around. If they did indeed create us, then they let the Jinn out of the bottle so to speak.

The way i see it, it's already Humanity 1 - Anunnaki 0 hence there apparent absence.

originally posted by: Wandering Scribe
a reply to: EviLCHiMP



When the gods are treated as mythology, meaning plural and pantheistic, they act as a blueprint for the human condition. Their myths were records of humanistic achievements and failures. Belief in them was to acknowledge the common experiences, both good and bad, that we all, as humans, share in.

When the gods were transformed into a God though, the many becoming one, all of that importance was lost.


~ Wandering Scribe

I agree with much that you said, but just want to point out that mythology does not mean plural and pantheistic. Mythology is the study of myths and myths are stories about supernatural deities, whether God (singular) or gods/goddesses. Pantheistic can refer to spirit manifesting in everything or God manifesting in everything. Usually, the latter is referred to as panentheism. I think you mean polytheistic (more than one god).

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

I don't 'believe' in a Creator/God ... I KNOW there is a creator/God.
It's not a matter of faith with me. It' just a matter of fact.
That is based on personal experience and a close encounter with the Divine.

a reply to: Takifugu

That implies that a creator would be constrained, if it existed at all, to what we would consider efficient or non-redunant.
Why would that be?

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Possibly constrained by its own design? After all i imagine omnipotence carry's a measure of responsibility.

When I was very young, listening to adults talk, I came to the conclusion that God existed for two reasons. One was to take credit for whatever people couldn't take credit for themselves. The other was to take the blame for what people couldn't or didn't want to be blamed for. Those were the times when I heard people talk about God the most often.

As a teenager I thought of God as a hall monitor handing out detention slips, and not accepting any excuses.

It wasn't until I was an adult that it occurred to me that, for whatever reason, I had always believed in God. Whether as a matter of convenience, a scapegoat, an authority figure, whatever. I had always just believed.

Sometimes I find it very difficult to accept the "god" of any particular religion. But I always find it rather easy to believe in a supreme being of some kind. I guess that puts me in the spiritual category...

I know of God because of personal experience. I've seen miracles. There is no "believing". Only knowing now. Sorry, I have no pics to prove it. The upside? Eternal life. The alternate, To not believe, to not know? Eternal death


After countless years of wandering on the battlefield, with countless wounds, I simply asked Him to show me The Way. The Holy Spirit easily enters an open wound. Looking back, I was so selfish. He was there all along.

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

I don't believe in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent divine being because the concept involves too many logical contradictions. The worst of them is theodicy, the so-called Problem of Evil: 'if God is good, whence cometh evil?', as Epicurus put it. The answers provided by religious apologists, such as the 'free will argument', sound unconvincing to me.

The question of where God came from is also a bit of a poser. Not to mention the question of how He could remain God after creating the universe.

And luckily, science shows us that we don't need the concept of God to explain the Big Questions.

None of this means that God doesn't exist; but if He does, he isn't anything like the popular conception of Him, He isn't very concerned with humans, and He cares nothing for our prayers, our hopes and fears, our dreams.

What do you personally believe you have to gain by believing in a God?

Security and a sense of being cared for and protected. Also, I suppose, a way to alleviate feelings of guilt or remorse for having behaved badly. These are the things that were most important to me when I was a believer.

What do you personally believe you have to lose by believing in a God?

Wisdom, clarity of thought, integrity, honour.

What do you personally believe you have to gain by not believing in a God?

A world-picture that is consistent and makes sense. Also, all the things I would lose if I did believe.

What do you personally believe you have to lose by not believing in a God?

All the things I lost when I stopped believing (see above).

You may call me an atheist.

a reply to: Wandering Scribe

If you would like to articulate your beliefs in another thread, and your reasoning, I for one would be very interested to read what you have to say.

originally posted by: Takifugu

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
I believe god is a wonderful group of programmers.

If there is a creator they are a lousy programmer : most of their code the they wrote is redundant.

They way they chose to make a human face is very inefficient ... youtu.be/wFY_KPFS3LA?t=32s
[ it's as if there wasn't a designed end-point ]

HAHA you create a sentient universe without multiple redundancies then.