Schoolteacher discovers accurate map of northern hemisphere inside Viking-age artifact (OOPARTs)

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

That really is nothing at all like the coastlines in question.

Yeps, the Vikings were phenomenal travellers and explorers and likely some of them went even further than we now know of, but this is not a map as claimed. I think that Harte's suggestion of a worn finish is immeasurably more likely.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The Vikings, along with other cultures in the world, did have maps and also did travel all over that ocean.

I didn't think the Vikings were big map makers. Let me think of a map we've found that the Vikings created....

Nope, can't think of one. I'm no Viking expert thou...

If this is a map, why is everyone just assuming the Vikings did all the mapping? Have they been to the archives in Alexandria? They have been in the midle east so who knows what they found out there..

a reply to: noeltrotsky

They all had maps. The vikings also had magnetic things they used as compasses. What good would a compass be without a map?

I don't think this small thing is a map though. It would probably have been etched in wood or stone.

a reply to: rickymouse

Lots of Viking artifacts have been found...no maps. Show me a link to a Viking map, I'd like to see one!

BTW, Vikings used the position of the sun in the sky for the most part to navigate. They didn't have compasses.
sciencenordic.com...

Even the Vinland map, not proven to be real, was supposed to have been made my missionaries living with Vikings.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: noeltrotsky

They all had maps. The vikings also had magnetic things they used as compasses. What good would a compass be without a map?

I don't think this small thing is a map though. It would probably have been etched in wood or stone.

A compass without a map is still extremely useful at sea. However, I believe you're right about maps. They probably made a few. Just none have been found.

Harte

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I am not sure of the credentials behind this article but I have seen articles about this subject that were official.

www.earldeblonville.com...

originally posted by: daaskapital
Contrary to popular belief, many ancient societies postulated the theory of a spherical Earth. The theory was first floated in Ancient Greece, and other societies followed suit.

I'm not exactly sure what the vikings believed, but being a seafaring people, it is possible that they knew more than the average man on navigation and geography...

This, most educated people were fairly certain the earth was a sphere. It was really only the uneducated that thought otherwise. The Greeks are known for proving it, but I don't know if their knowledge simply traveled elsewhere or if others thought up the proofs as well. Either way, it required knowledge of mathematics that the common person didn't have.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The Vikings, along with other cultures in the world, did have maps and also did travel all over that ocean. It doesn't seem that we have found many maps of the other ocean for some reason

Check out the Ancient Chinese explorers. There are several claims that Zheng He managed to reach South America.

a reply to: rickymouse

I've heard of the Lodstone stories but am still not convinced the Vikings had it in wide use for navigation.

a reply to: Caver78
No, the Saami like to claim they were there before us but really there is no evidence of it. Their DNA shows they have a mix of Norse, Germanic, Finnic/Karelian, and Mongolian genes and their culture is wholly Mongolian. Their reindeer herding nomadic lifestyle, animistic shamanism, and even methodology are identical to Mongolian customs.

They should not be called "sea-faring" but more accurately "water-faring" people as the earlier Saami were not making ships, but small boats.

originally posted by: rickymouse
They all had maps. The vikings also had magnetic things they used as compasses. What good would a compass be without a map?

I don't think this small thing is a map though. It would probably have been etched in wood or stone.

Likely they had crude maps on perishable material (leather) which hasnt survived. Contrary to what other posters have claimed they DID have magnets. Years ago I researched it in depth and one source was from an island in what is now west Russia.

They would magnetise a piece of metal and float it in a bowl of water, and it would point towards magnetic north. Not useful up north, but lower down it was.

They travelled by the position of the sun and stars, the Pole Star being the most important. Sunstones were used to find the sun in cloud cover. Even without maps. As another person mentioned they followed coastlines, currents, and island-hopped to get places.

Interesting note they had some concept of depth, because of the movement of the stars when travelling north and south.

a reply to: Ridhya

If they used lodestone compasses to travel, their maps may not have matched the maps made by the stars. The magnetic declination would have made their maps inaccurate as compared to star maps. But the vikings were not picky, if they could find the place they didn't care about making maps others could read. To protect their discoveries from most that used starmaps, they may not have converted them so others could not find their suppliers and steal them away.

This is just a possibility, there is no evidence to back it. It would make their maps look like they were distorted to others. Whether they knew this I do not know. Why use stars when you do not need to. The only problem is if the magnetic declination changed, you would not be able to find the colony across the ocean. If you did not update the settings every few years the destination would be hard to find. Star maps were much more accurate but the time of the year would have to be known.

a reply to: rickymouse
If you read the Vinland Saga, their means of direction seem pretty sloppy. When they reach north america they're basically like, okay this place has flat stones lets call it Flat Stone Country, etc. And then when they think they reach their destination one guys like hm this location doesnt look like that guy described it, lets keep rowing...

A lot of it seems like hey, we got the general direction, lets go til we see something we recognise!

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

All sea faring communities knew the earth was a globe. Why would you think otherwise? The flat earth is a myth invented in the recent past.

Why do we still call them Vikings? The only people in human history,, that I know of, who has been called Vikings, is a football team from Minnesota. They were called the Norse. Today we are called Scandinavians. Viking was something a few Norse did, like some people were pirates, but calling the entire people Vikings is as wrong as calling the Christian population at the time for Crusaders or calling every people from Spain a Conquistadore.
The marking could very possible be a coincidence that happens to resemble a map. But stranger things have been found so why not? We know the Norse went long way from home and was very good at navigating so it is not impossible some of them made a rather accurate map.

This summer I was at the old Norse city of Birka. There is nothing left to see of the city but some stone walls. However, the guide was a very entertaining archeologist who talked alot about common misperceptions regarding the old Norse. Very interesting and insightfull.

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

What about the required map projection maths, would not this mean they had a higher level of maths and knew that the earth was a globe?

-MM

I am positive that the Vikings knew the Earth was a sphere - they were seafarers. Any mariner can tell you that you can see the curve of the Earth whilst at sea. They also used both the moon and the Sun for navigation, both spheres. I would be amazed if they didn't connect the dots.....

As to the thread itself, great spot and thanks for sharing.

Not so sure where i stand on it though. It almost appears to good to be true.....

originally posted by: Floke
Why do we still call them Vikings? The only people in human history,, that I know of, who has been called Vikings, is a football team from Minnesota. They were called the Norse. Today we are called Scandinavians. Viking was something a few Norse did, like some people were pirates, but calling the entire people Vikings is as wrong as calling the Christian population at the time for Crusaders or calling every people from Spain a Conquistadore.
The marking could very possible be a coincidence that happens to resemble a map. But stranger things have been found so why not? We know the Norse went long way from home and was very good at navigating so it is not impossible some of them made a rather accurate map.

This summer I was at the old Norse city of Birka. There is nothing left to see of the city but some stone walls. However, the guide was a very entertaining archeologist who talked alot about common misperceptions regarding the old Norse. Very interesting and insightfull.

What they were called depends entirely upon where they happened to be. In Northern Scotland (including the Islands) and in Ireland, they were certainly known as the Norse. In England, they were known as the Danes (hence the Danelaw). This is mainly because the raiders in England were from Danish stock (by and large), whereas in Scotland and Ireland they were of Norse stock. France got a mix, as did Northern Germany. Russia appears to be mainly Norse, at least at first.

Also, calling them Viking is pretty accurate as that is a term describing what they were doing - raiding. Not so accurate for the later years of the Danelaw areas though.....

originally posted by: MerkabaMeditation
A japanese schoolteacher ...

Here's another Japanese amateur-scientist afflicted with a bad case of pareidoila ... improb.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i6/okamura-6-6.html

The "global" pareidoila phenomenon can be seen on YouTube.

a reply to: Ridhya

Sounds like a bunch of partying teenagers