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Roswell for Dummies. :)

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posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 08:16 PM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur

A rawin device is a rawin device, and balsa wood and tin foil were materials that even a child could have identified. I might add that rawin devices do not fragment into small shredded pieces.

Recovered Rawin Device 1

Recovered Rawin Device 2

Recovered Rawin Device 3

Recovered Rawin Device 4

Notice that none of the recovered rawin devices look like this.

Jesse Marcel With Shredded Rawin Device

Notice in this message that a rawin device was suggested to cover-up the downed saucers.

Suggest Saucers are Radar Targets for Weather Observation

In other words, it was suggested in that message that a rawin device be used to cover-up the recovery of the saucers, which was confirmed by General Thomas Dubose, who posed with the rawin debris in Ramey's office.



Brig. Gen. Thomas Dubose

"There was a host of people descending on our headquarters seeking information from Ramey, badgering him for information we didn't have.

I didn't know what it was. Blanchard [base commander at Roswell] didn't know. Ramey didn't know... We didn't know what the hell it was. Nobody knew. But I can tell you this — it damn sure wasn't a weather balloon. ...McMullen said, Look, why don't you come up with something, anything you can use to get the press off our back? So we came up with this weather balloon story, which I thought was a hell of a good idea.

Somebody got one and we ran it up a couple of hundred feet and dropped it to make it look like it crashed, and that's what we used... Now I imagine, privately, some people felt bad about doing things that way. But it worked. The story stuck."

devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com...


I have often warned people that the Air Force was lying about that weather balloon rawin device as responsible for the Roswell incident.
edit on 17-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: Ectoplasm8



Mogul flight #4 was mentioned equally as #3 with little fanfare during those first flights. Flight #5 however, did have a more detailed account and used radiosonde transmitters instead of the radar/corner reflectors.


The flights for Mogul balloon flight #3 and Mogul balloon flight #4 were cancelled due to clouds. Mogul balloon flight #5, however, was launched, but it was a different configuration than Mogul balloon train #4 and it didn't carry a rawin device.



posted on Aug, 17 2015 @ 11:16 PM
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originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: Arbitrageur

A rawin device is a rawin device, and balsa wood and tin foil were materials that even a child could have identified.
Maybe a child could, but Marcel seemed convinced what he described wasn't from this world even though his description perfectly matches a mogul balloon.


I might add that rawin devices do not fragment into small shredded pieces.

Recovered Rawin Device 1

Recovered Rawin Device 2

Recovered Rawin Device 3

Recovered Rawin Device 4

Notice that none of the recovered rawin devices look like this.
You can't seriously believe what you said, can you? Showing some recovered targets in no way proves anything about what happens to all targets recovered under all conditions, especially if they've been sitting around for some time exposed to the elements, or exposed to strong winds upon landing which is more likely to damage the target as it's being dragged along the ground. The terrain would matter too. But the most interesting thing about those photos is the caption that suggests those might be mistaken for flying disks, which is exactly the opposite of the point you're trying to make that nobody would mistake those for flying disks.
edit on 2015817 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 12:01 AM
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edit on 18-8-2015 by Afdcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Brig. Gen. Thomas Dubose

"There was a host of people descending on our headquarters seeking information from Ramey, badgering him for information we didn't have.

I didn't know what it was. Blanchard [base commander at Roswell] didn't know. Ramey didn't know... We didn't know what the hell it was. Nobody knew. But I can tell you this — it damn sure wasn't a weather balloon. ...McMullen said, Look, why don't you come up with something, anything you can use to get the press off our back? So we came up with this weather balloon story, which I thought was a hell of a good idea.

Somebody got one and we ran it up a couple of hundred feet and dropped it to make it look like it crashed, and that's what we used... Now I imagine, privately, some people felt bad about doing things that way. But it worked. The story stuck."

devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com...


Thank you for this quote, it is quite astonishing evidence.
The General's credentials are impeccable, he was undeniably right there and in command at the time of this event, and he states very clearly what took place.

Some people are waiting for "disclosure", and that is a valid approach, but it seems to me disclosure has long since occurred. This General is only one of thousands who have already informed us about the reality of alien contact.

Keep up the good posts skyeagle, you seem to understand the historical record very accurately and in great detail.



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 01:20 AM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur



Maybe a child could, but Marcel seemed convinced what he described wasn't from this world even though his description perfectly matches a mogul balloon.


Rawin devices were regularly used by the military, so no one would have confused a rawin device for a flying saucer. The rawin device in Ramey's office was taken off the military's shelf and destroyed.

The military was well aware of Mogul balloons as well. After all, it wasa the military the presented Mogul balloon trains and their experiments in the newspapers in July 1947. Additionally, the balloon teams were required to notify the military whenever they launched those balloon by issuing NOTAMS.



You can't seriously believe what you said, can you? Showing some recovered targets in no way proves anything about what happens to all targets recovered under all conditions, especially if they've been sitting around for some time exposed to the elements, or exposed to strong winds upon landing which is more likely to damage the target as it's being dragged along the ground.


Mac Brazel; attended to sheep on the Foster ranch so there was no way a rawin device could have sat on the ranch for a long period of time. In fact, Mac Brazel recovered weather balloons on two occasions.



But the most interesting thing about those photos is the caption that suggests those might be mistaken for flying disks, which is exactly the opposite of the point you're trying to make that nobody would mistake those for flying disks.


We can take a look here and it is plain to see that the rawin device is not saucer-shaped nor capable of carrying a person. As it is, General Thomas Dubose confirmed that the weather balloon and its rawin device was made up and pulled off the shelf and was not what was recovered on the Foster ranch> Check it out.

Brig. Gen. Thomas Dubose said that "it damn sure wasn't a weather balloon." He also said "we came up with this weather balloon story, which I thought was a hell of a good idea." And tje rest os history.

Does this look like a flying saucer capable of carrying alien beings?

Rawin Device



edit on 18-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: Scdfa



Thank you for this quote, it is quite astonishing evidence.


You are welcome. Not many people know that the Air Force has secretly acknowledged that flying saucers are, in the Air Force's own words, "Interplanetary Spaceships."

U.S. Air Force, Top Secret, Project Sign, Estimate of the Situation (EOTS) 1948, ATIC, Wright-Patterson AFB.

Eventually, General Hoyt Vandenberg ordered the EOTS declassified and destroyed and that raised a lot of eyebrows.

In 1952, the Air Force intelligence report came to the same conclusion.



MANEUVERED MOTION AND "INTELLIGENT CONTROL

Following the nearly year-long 1952 UFO sighting wave in which there were repeated instances of jet interceptors chasing after UFOs that also showed on radar, the Central Intelligence Agency convened the so-called Robertson Panel to evaluate the data. Among the presentations made to the scientific panel was one by Dewey J. Fournet (USAF, Ret.) who had worked with scientific analysts conducting a rigorous motion analysis study of hardcore unexplained cases.

Edward J. Ruppelt, former Chief of the Air Force Project Blue Book investigation, later reported that the study was "very hot and very controversial...[it] was hot because it wasn't official and the reason it wasn't official was because it was so hot. It concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships."

Air Force analysts had reached this conclusion before. Project Sign in 1948 had issued a Top Secret Estimate of the Situation drawing the same conclusion. (Hall, 1964, p. 110) But both times outside scientific consultants, on the basis of what were arguably superficial and excessively skeptical reviews, disputed the conclusion. (Hall, 1988, pp. 155-163)

Many of these jet interception cases included a sort of "cat-and-mouse" behavior on the part of the UFOs, pulling away from the pursuing jets and then slowing down until they caught up again. This behavior has been repeated throughout the history of UFOs, and is one of the many indicators of intelligence behind the phenomenon. Case after case can be cited of UFOs apparently playing interactive games with (a) military aircraft


What the U.S. Air Force Academy was telling its cadets



INTRODUCTORY SPACE SCIENCE - VOLUME II
CHAPTER XXXIII
UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS
DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS - USAF
UNITED STATES AIR FORCE ACADEMY


F-86 Encounter With A Flying Saucer
U. S. Air Force Academy

We too have fired on UFO's. About ten o'clock one morning, a radar site near a fighter base picked up a UFO doing 700 mph. The UFO then slowed to 100 mph, and two F-86's were scrambled to intercept. Eventually one F-86 closed on the UFO at about 3,000 feet altitude.

The UFO began to accelerate away but the pilot still managed to get within 500 yards of the target for a short period of time. It was definitely saucer-shaped. As the pilot pushed the F-86 at top speed, the UFO began to pull away.

When the range reached 1,000 yards, the pilot armed his guns and fired in an attempt to down the saucer. He failed, and the UFO pulled away rapidly, vanishing in the distance.


The pilot of that F-86 that shot at that flying saucer was slammed by his squadron commander for doing so. Not many people today knew that in 1958, disclosure was about to be made on "Live" TV on the CBS Armstrong Circle Star Theater. Just as the Major was about the reveal what the government knew about flying saucers, he was cut off by CBS.



What Happen On the CBS Program, The Armstrong Circle Star Theater, On January 22, 1958?

"1958 Major Donald Keyhoe, Director of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon (NICAP), appeared as a guest on the "Armstrong Circle Theater Show." He had planned to make an announcement about what the United States government knew about UFOs. He began by stating, "And now I'm going to reveal something that has never been disclosed before...for the last six months we have been working with a congressional committee investigating official secrecy about UFOs..." At that moment the producer of the show (CBS) cut the audio and the public was not able to hear the remainder of Major Keyhoe's statement. Later it was determined to have been done because of pressure from Air Force "spokesmen" in the interest of national security."

"The allegation that the Air Force is concealing the truth about UFOs and knows more than it is telling the public is a frequent one. In the forefront of the censorship debate is Donald Kehoe (Major, USMC, Ret.), Director, NICAP. His books, "The Flying Saucer Conspiracy" and "Flying Saucers, Top Secret" deal with what is claimed to be Air Force censorship of UFO information. One example from the latter book will illustrate the problem."

"Kehoe had been invited to appear on a radio program, Armstrong Circle Theater, to participate in a panel discussion of the UFO problem. He had planned to bring up Capt. Ruppelt's claim that UFOs were real, were interplanetary and that the Air Force knew this, to the extent of publishing a report to this effect in an official Air Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) report in 1948." (Wright-Patterson AFB)

"The individual charge of reviewing the program prior to its airing told Kehoe that he could not use that material because of time limitations Kehoe suspected Air Force pressure on the radio station and asked if this was the case. The answer he received was that CBS did not want to get into difficulty with the Air Force. Kehoe cut the referenced discussion from his script, but in the heat of the discussion during the actual broadcast he declared that he would make an announcement never before made to the public, at which time his microphone was cut off. There was a public clamor about this in the press and in letters from individuals to the radio station. In answer to an inquiry by a NICAP member, Herbert A. Carlborg, CBS editor of Editing, made this statement:

"This program has been carefully cleared for security reasons. therefore, it was the responsibility of this network to insure performance that was in accordance with predetermined security standards. Any indication that there would be a deviation from the script might lead to a statement that neither this network nor the individuals on the program were authorized to release."


Here is the CBS response letter.

CBS Response Letter

Not many people are aware of this report.



Conclusion UFOs Are Space Ships
Given SAC in 1952

A 1952 evaluation of "flying saucers" as interplanetary devices, sent to Strategic Air Command Headquarters from MacDill AFB, has been disclosed to NICAP by former information Specialist Don Widener, one of the AF men concurring in this opinion.


Look at this news headline in the Washington Post in 1952.

'Saucer' Outran Jet, Pilot Reveals

And, this headline.

Air Force Orders Its Pilots To Shoot Down Flying Saucers

Believe me, UFOs are real and not of this earth.


edit on 18-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: skyeagle409




Look at this news headline in the Washington Post in 1952.

'Saucer' Outran Jet, Pilot Reveals

And, this headline.

Air Force Orders Its Pilots To Shoot Down Flying Saucers





The Washington DC cases is a much better case to study than Roswell

Firstly there are all the pictures of the UFOs to scrutnize.









Plus the film footage shown in many documentaries.



Then there are all the civilian witness reports to thumb through and ponder over just what really did go on over those two weekends in DC in 1952?



Thanks to Curt Collins for providing the photographic evidence



edit on 18/8/15 by mirageman because:




posted on Aug, 18 2015 @ 12:25 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

The events of 1952 really shook things up. When an airplane took off at National Airport, some of the objects would race across Washington and surround the aircraft. That also happened to one of the jet fighters sent to intercept them.



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: skyeagle409


The flights for Mogul balloon flight #3 and Mogul balloon flight #4 were cancelled due to clouds. Mogul balloon flight #5, however, was launched, but it was a different configuration than Mogul balloon train #4 and it didn't carry a rawin device.

They completely skip over and scrap both #3 and #4 and go straight to #5? That makes absolutely no sense. Okay, one more time and I'm done with explaining because I've already gone over it. Mogul #1 and #2 were unsuccessful on the east coast. They brought the program to New Mexico still in the experimental stage and Mogul #3 was the first to be launched and tested there. AGAIN, Mogul Field Operations Director Albert Crary's diary entry on May 29th for the launching of Mogul #3:


Mogul #4 was also experimental and Moore was using several radar/corner targets because of the poor radar tracking. AGAIN, Albert Crary's diary entry for June 4th:


Notice with both #3 and #4 there wasn't much said with either. They're still trying to figure out the best arrangement. A following B-17 is mentioned with #3 and the ground receiver and plane is mentioned with #4. Flight #5 was launched the day after #4, on June 5th. Radiosonde transmitters were used later because of the poor performance tested with Mogul #3 and #4 of the radar/corner targets.

------------------------------------------------


Mac Brazel; attended to sheep on the Foster ranch so there was no way a rawin device could have sat on the ranch for a long period of time.

Brazel didn't wander aimlessly on horseback across the many acres of the Foster ranch. As you said, part of his job was to gather and look after the sheep and only when the sheep were in the area of the debris was when it was found.


In fact, Mac Brazel recovered weather balloons on two occasions.

Yes, he recovered RAWIN balloons with most likely one radar target, one balloon, and fully intact. Like the photos shown. Mogul had 3 or more targets, multiple balloons, and had been sitting outside for at least a week. The debris field would have been spread out and at least 3 times the size that had been seen before. That could have been caused by the storms that occurred during that time, or from being dragged along the ground with the wind as the balloons deflated.
This is a quote from Charles Moore in his interview HERE

...we were doing something that was unorthodox, using targets that, as far as I know, had not been flown in New Mexico. There's no way that rancher could have ever seen one.


------------------------------------------------

This is what I believe happened with the first part:

- Mogul #4 was launched on June 4th, crashed and not recovered.
- Storms scatter and tear apart the targets, the balloons disintegrate or turn into smokey gray strips in the sunlight .
- Mac Brazel finds the debris 10 days later on June 14th.
- The sheep wouldn't cross over the debris so he stashes some under brush and goes back to work.
- Kenneth Arnold comes out with his story of witnessing 9 saucer like craft in Washington 10 days later on June 24th.
- Flying saucer/disc mania ensues in the media.
- Newspapers offer a reward for physical evidence of a flying saucer.
- Brazel catches wind of the story and reward, possibly through friends or family over the July 4th weekend.
- He wonders if what he found was a flying saucer and goes back to the site to recover the debris he put away.
- July 6/7 he drives 85 miles into Roswell and contacts the sheriff telling him he thinks he may have found pieces of a flying saucer.
- The sheriff contacts the air base telling them a flying disc may have been recovered.
- The story leads in with it being a flying saucer and goes to the next step.



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I would give up mate. I'm sure you realize that whilst you are debating others are preaching.




posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: Ectoplasm8
Thank you Ecto---you pulled the preponderance of the weight here and did a smashing job of it. Thank you, too, MM.

I personally sure would like to see "ufology" get past the Cold War deceptions and focus in maybe more fruitful directions. I'm also reminded I'd like to piss on the smug and deluded Tom Carey's AMA Thread...

edit on 20-8-2015 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2015 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: Ectoplasm8




This is what I believe happened with the first part:

- Mogul #4 was launched on June 4th, crashed and not recovered.


Records show that Project Mogul balloon #4 was cancelled due to clouds. Only a service balloon flight was conducted and the only listed payload was a sonobouy.

[quuote]- Storms scatter and tear apart the targets, the balloons disintegrate or turn into smokey gray strips in the sunlight .

There was a stipulation between the CAA, and the balloon teams that no Mogul balloon be launched on cloudy days, which also means that they would not have been launched with a storm in the area.



- Mac Brazel finds the debris 10 days later on June 14th.


According to records, Brazel discovered the wreckage in July. The June date was used by the military as a cover story.


- The sheep wouldn't cross over the debris so he stashes some under brush and goes back to work.


According to William Brazel, Jr., his dad was told by the military the debris was not from this earth.



William Brazel, Jr.

Dad once said that the Army had once told him it was not anything made by us.

www.ufoevidence.org...



- Kenneth Arnold comes out with his story of witnessing 9 saucer like craft in Washington 10 days later on June 24th.
- Flying saucer/disc mania ensues in the media.


On July 8, 1947, just days after Roswell, the Air Force reported flying saucers over Muroc AFB, and Rogers Dry Lake, CA.



MUROC AFB INCIDENT, CALIFORNIA
July 8, 1947


nuforc.org...




- Newspapers offer a reward for physical evidence of a flying saucer.
- Brazel catches wind of the story and reward, possibly through friends or family over the July 4th weekend.
- He wonders if what he found was a flying saucer and goes back to the site to recover the debris he put away.
- July 6/7 he drives 85 miles into Roswell and contacts the sheriff telling him he thinks he may have found pieces of a flying saucer.
- The sheriff contacts the air base telling them a flying disc may have been recovered.
- The story leads in with it being a flying saucer and goes to the next step.te]



Since Brazel recovered weather balloons before and metal foil and balsa wood were well-known materials, it was not likely that Brazel nor the sheriff would have confused such materials as a flying saucer. In fact, not one single down Mogul balloon that was recovered by civilians, were ever confused as a flying saucer, especially with this kind of equipment that are easily recognizable to even civilians.

Here is a list of other equipment carried aloft on Mogul balloon trains.



Project Mogul balloon payload

* Dribblers

* Parachutes

* Ballast tubes

* Radiosode

* Sono Buoy

* Equipment gauges

* 17.5 Mogul balloon payload.

* Braided lines

* 28 balloons of various sizes

None of the equipment listed above were ever recovered on the Foster ranch because there were no Mogul balloon involved and why there are no flight records for any Mogul balloon flight #4.

And, other things carried aloft on Mogul balloons. Perhaps, can someone find anything of this on the Internet?



QUESTIONNAIRE, REWARD AND WARNING TAGS ATTACHED TO PROJECT MOGUL BALLOONS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTIONNAIRE

Please answer this and send to us so that we may pay you the
Reward.

1. On what date and at what hour was the balloon discovered?

2. Where was it discovered? (Approximate distance and direction
from nearest town on map?)

3. Was it observed descending? If so, at what time?

4. Did it float down slowly or fall rapidly?

5. How much kerosene was there in the tank?

C. S. Schneider
Research Division
New York University
University Heights
Bronx 53. New York

__________________________________________________________________


REWARD NOTICE

This is special weather equipment Sent aloft on research by New York Univetity.
It is important that the equipment be recovered. The finder L requested to protect
the equipment from damage or theft. and to telegraph collect to: Mr. C. 5. Schneider.
York University. 18lst St. & University Heights, Box 12. New York City.
L.S.A. Phone: LUdlow 3.6310. REFER TO FLIGHT #-__________

A dollar ($ ) reward and reasonable reimbursement for recovery expense will be
paid if the above instruction* are followed before September 1949.

KEEP AWAY FROM FIRE. THERE IS KEROSENE IN THE TANK.

___________________________________________________________________


****WARNING TAGS****

_______________________

DANGER!
FIRE!
CUT THESE WIRES
BEFORE HANDLING
_______________________

DANGER!
EMPTY THIS ON GROUND
BEFORE HANDLING
________________________


The information above shows why recovered Mogul balloons were never confused as flying saucers. Here is a photo of a balloon train that was recovered by two civilians, which I might add, does not look like a flying saucer.

Downed Balloon Train

There was never a reason for the military to concoct a recovered flying saucer story over a downed Mogul balloon train. In fact, civilians who recovered down Mogul balloons were invited to add their own data input on attached questionnaires.
edit on 20-8-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2015 @ 01:47 AM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I would give up mate. I'm sure you realize that whilst you are debating others are preaching.


Yeah, I know. I don't expect to change anyones mind of course, but the information that has been going around for years has deeper roots when you do actual research, as you know. I think it needs to be brought to light when it pops up. I tend to repeat a lot though.


originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Ectoplasm8
Thank you Ecto---you pulled the preponderance of the weight here and did a smashing job of it. Thank you, too, MM.

I personally sure would like to see "ufology" get past the Cold War deceptions and focus in maybe more fruitful directions. I'm also reminded I'd like to piss on the smug and deluded Tom Carey's AMA Thread...

Thanks.



posted on Apr, 11 2016 @ 09:12 PM
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a reply to: skyeagle409

Just another link for those who happen upon this thread.

Kevin Randle devotes this blog to Mogul as a failed explanation.



posted on Apr, 16 2016 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: skyeagle409




Look at this news headline in the Washington Post in 1952.

'Saucer' Outran Jet, Pilot Reveals

And, this headline.

Air Force Orders Its Pilots To Shoot Down Flying Saucers





The Washington DC cases is a much better case to study than Roswell

Firstly there are all the pictures of the UFOs to scrutnize.









Plus the film footage shown in many documentaries.



Then there are all the civilian witness reports to thumb through and ponder over just what really did go on over those two weekends in DC in 1952?



Thanks to Curt Collins for providing the photographic evidence





That 1952 footage is all fake. There are no photographs of that event. That clip was made in a studio for a documentary about the 1952 wave.


Roswell is a total fraud. Stanton Friedman used to give lectures about Roswell and he would summarize the main points, one of the biggest being "of course a saucer crashed, the newspaper even said so!" And he would wave the paper around in the air. Yet if you go on to actually read the article it describes the debris as: scotch tape, rubber, flimsy eye-beams and "box-kite". I would guess in his books he never mentions this and dances around the fact that Brazle never saw an actual spaceship and aliens. Same as any documentary I've ever seen.

In the UFO Hunters Roswell episode they established the metal may have been some type of aluminum alloy by working with the grandson of Brazle and having him examine some sheets of metal. That "memory metal" supposedly wasn't sold back then or didn't exist yet but what that would mean is (obviously) the military did have it, just not the public.
On the show they were like "but this metal wasn't around until the 60's!". Like no one could imagine that the military could invent a bendy alloy of aluminum and keep it secret for a while. During a cold war.



posted on Apr, 17 2016 @ 05:42 AM
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That 1952 footage is all fake. There are no photographs of that event. That clip was made in a studio for a documentary about the 1952 wave.....


By joining the thread so late I'm afraid you missed the point somewhat there. Check the link and the wink!

As for the UFO Hunters episode on Roswell. It wasn't Brazel's grandson it was Jesse Marcel Jr. and a guy called Earl Fulford who claims he went to collect some of the debris from whatever crashed.

Both Fulford and Marcel identified an acetate as being similar to the material they remember seeing back in 1947. Acetate would have been fairly unknown to most people at that time. However it had been around in different forms since the early 20th century. Mogul balloons did not use acetate though as far as I know.



posted on Apr, 19 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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originally posted by: mirageman



That 1952 footage is all fake. There are no photographs of that event. That clip was made in a studio for a documentary about the 1952 wave.....


By joining the thread so late I'm afraid you missed the point somewhat there. Check the link and the wink!

As for the UFO Hunters episode on Roswell. It wasn't Brazel's grandson it was Jesse Marcel Jr. and a guy called Earl Fulford who claims he went to collect some of the debris from whatever crashed.

Both Fulford and Marcel identified an acetate as being similar to the material they remember seeing back in 1947. Acetate would have been fairly unknown to most people at that time. However it had been around in different forms since the early 20th century. Mogul balloons did not use acetate though as far as I know.



Ok, right on.



posted on May, 29 2016 @ 09:48 PM
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It appears that most everyone in this thread is unwittingly or knowingly ignoring the 500 lb gorilla in the room.

I'm speaking of course of the hundreds of Flying Saucer reports by thousands of US citizens for half the year that year encompassing the entire width and breadth of the continent.

Military and civilians alike, private pilots, as well as commercial and military too.


Roswell was not an isolated incident, as commonly treated in this thread.

It came in the middle of a hurricane of Saucer reports that year, reporting alien (to us) performance capabilities including 'terrific' speeds clocked at up to 15,000 mph and sudden 90° turns at full speed with no deceleration, also instantaneous about face turns at full speed.

Examine the database of reports where all manner of odd manifestations of this tech clearly indicate that the method of propulsion and flight characteristics were WAY beyond the capability of any country on earth in 1947.

Why have no signs of this tech ever been displayed since, by any country anywhere, during war or peacetime?

Even now, 68 years later, no one can duplicate these insanely advanced maneuvers, or even come close.

So in the middle of this hailstorm of sightings for six months all across the country, (reportedly nine months by insider testimony) one comes crashing down and we are expected to believe it was a weather balloon??

When hundreds of witnesses to the events say otherwise?



Oh Puh leeeeeze







edit on 29-5-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2016 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: skyeagle409




Look at this news headline in the Washington Post in 1952.

'Saucer' Outran Jet, Pilot Reveals

And, this headline.

Air Force Orders Its Pilots To Shoot Down Flying Saucers





The Washington DC cases is a much better case to study than Roswell

Firstly there are all the pictures of the UFOs to scrutnize.









Plus the film footage shown in many documentaries.



Then there are all the civilian witness reports to thumb through and ponder over just what really did go on over those two weekends in DC in 1952?



Thanks to Curt Collins for providing the photographic evidence




The sightings over the capitol (for 2 weekends in a row no less) seen visually and on multiple radar were indeed the closest thing to a landing on the White House lawn we've ever seen.

The full story is amazing.


But it's true.. there is no legit footage or photos of the event.

Investigate the source, you'll see.


In any case if we examine the photo that first surfaced (years after the event) and isolate the 'objects' in the sky -





And then rotate that image for comparison -
(for full size - right click on image and choose - open in new tab)





...we can clearly see these 'objects' are in reality a reflection of the lamp posts.








edit on 29-5-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)




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