Roswell for Dummies. :)

originally posted by: skyeagle409
Not of this earth.

Way to narrow it down. Now I completely believe you.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Way to narrow it down. Now I completely believe you.

Not just me, but astronomers, scientist, engineers, intelligence, military and other government officials, astronauts, cosmonauts, pilots, radar operators, police officers, etc. The list is a very long one as well. Here are a few of more than 110,000 reported UFO cases.

MEMORANDUM TO THE CONTROLLER OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS
Canadian Embassy staff; Washington D. C.

a. The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb.

b. Flying saucers exist.

c. Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Doctor Vannevar Bush.

d. The entire matter is considered by the United States authorities to be of tremendous significance.

DOCUMENT

roswellproof.homestead.com...

roswellproof.homestead.com...


A List of UFO Sightings by Astronomers

www.scribd.com...


Vandenberg AFB UFO Incident

VIDEO


Japan Airlines Flt 1628 Video

www.youtube.com...


Minot AFB UFO Encounter Video

www.youtube.com...

edit on 24-7-2015 by skyeagle409 because: (no reason given)

a reply to: skyeagle409

In Corpus Christi, Texas, I received confirmation that no balloons were involved in the Roswell incident, and afterwards, I conducted deep research into Project Mogul. The result of my research had determined that Project Mogul was not classified TOP SECRET, and in fact, Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were publicized in the news media in 1947 and yet the Air Force managed to convince a number of Roswell skeptics that Project Mogul was classified TOP SECRET in its 1994 Roswell report.

It is amazing how easy the Air Force was able to dupe Roswell skeptics into thinking that typical unclassified research balloons were classified TOP SECRET after trashing its 47-year weather balloon story. Here is the typical payload of a Project Mogul balloon train.

So you're saying the Air Force went public in 1947 stating we were launching experimental high altitude balloon trains for the purpose of listening for Soviet nuclear testing? Right at the beginning of the cold war with Russia? That would be a pretty idiotic thing to do, don't you think?

The launching of Mogul balloons didn't start until 1947. Every other balloon and it's payload launched and used up until that point were the smaller weather style balloons. These are what Marcel and Brazel would find crashed. Mogul was much larger, which logically corresponds to Marcel's frequent Roswell quote:
"There was so much of it."

Mogul was also designed to sustain higher altitudes for longer periods than weather balloons. Using the same time-tested method of weather balloons and their reflectors, Mogul would have been constructed the same, but strengthened to survive the harsher conditions. For instance, the balsa wood beams were coated in an Elmers glue type of substance making them stronger. Which also corresponds to Marcels quote:
"There were little members, small members, solid members that could not bend or break, but it didn't look like metal. It looked more like wood."

Other than an astronomical coincidence, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation of why both balloon targets of the time and an alien spacecraft share the exact same construction methods.
That would be "simply amazing."

a reply to: TheCrowMan

On Roswell, if it were a Balloon and RAWIN, why isnt all the evidence produced now? Surely RAWIN type technology is no longer classified, so roll out the boxes of the crashed Balloon and RAWIN? What they dont have any left?

Just to give you an update, the U.S. Air Force threw out its Roswell weather balloon rawin device story in 1994.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

So you're saying the Air Force went public in 1947 stating we were launching experimental high altitude balloon trains for the purpose of listening for Soviet nuclear testing? Right at the beginning of the cold war with Russia? That would be a pretty idiotic thing to do, don't you think?

That's right. And, it was no secret in the newspapers that the balloon experiments dealt with the detection of nuclear explosions.

The launching of Mogul balloons didn't start until 1947. Every other balloon and it's payload launched and used up until that point were the smaller weather style balloons. These are what Marcel and Brazel would find crashed. Mogul was much larger, which logically corresponds to Marcel's frequent Roswell quote:
"There was so much of it."

There was no Mogul balloon launch on the date the Air Force claimed and Mogul balloons were sometimes recovered by civilians for rewards after answer the questionnaires that were attached to the balloon assemblies. Sometimes, Mogul balloons were left in open fields and not recovered and in one case, a Mogul balloon train was vandalized because it was left next to a roadway. There is absolutely no way a Mogul balloon train could have created the kind of deris field on the Foster ranch, which was proven when an experimental Mogul balloon was shot down a few years ago to see if the experimenters could create the kind of debris field reported on the Foster ranch. As it was, the experiment a few years ago proved once and for all that no Mogul balloon could have created the debris field noted my Marcel.

Mogul was also designed to sustain higher altitudes for longer periods than weather balloons. Using the same time-tested method of weather balloons and their reflectors, Mogul would have been constructed the same, but strengthened to survive the harsher conditions. For instance, the balsa wood beams were coated in an Elmers glue type of substance making them stronger. Which also corresponds to Marcels quote:
"There were little members, small members, solid members that could not bend or break, but it didn't look like metal. It looked more like wood."

The properties of the material that Marcel described in 1947 are similar to the new super materials developed over recent years. Now, we have inflatable spacecraft, and decades ago, the Goodyear Company developed an inflatable aircraft that actural flew with two people.

Inflatable Airplanes

Other than an astronomical coincidence, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation of why both balloon targets of the time and an alien spacecraft share the exact same construction methods.
That would be "simply amazing."

Let's take a look at inflatable spacecrafts.

Inflatable Spacecraft

Inflatable Spacecraft 2

Inflatable Spacecraft 3

2002 NASA Web page
(science.nasa.gov...)

The Right Stuff for Super Spaceships
Tomorrow's spacecraft will be built using advanced materials with mind-boggling properties.


New Metal Alloy Is Super Strong.
By PETER SVENSSON, AP Business Writer

roswellproof.homestead.com...

I might add that even Proejct Mogul and Skyhook balloon scientist were tracking flying saucers.

How Scientist Tracked a Flying Saucer

www.nicap.org...

a reply to: skyeagle409

That's right. And, it was no secret in the newspapers that the balloon experiments dealt with the detection of nuclear explosions.

Can you link newspaper articles before July 1947 that state the Air Force was launching experimental balloons designed to listen for Russian Nuclear weapon testing? I've searched and can't find any.

a Mogul balloon train was vandalized because it was left next to a roadway. There is absolutely no way a Mogul balloon train could have created the kind of deris field on the Foster ranch

Here's the typical weather balloon of the time and attached radar targets:


Here's the typical Mogul balloon train in 1947 and attached radar targets. The drawing depicts one entire payload and balloons broken up into three separate pieces because of the size:


You see no difference in size where 8+ radar targets would leave a larger debris field than 2 or 3 targets? The standard weather balloon targets are what Marcel and Brazel would find strewn across the desert. Finding a debris field 4 or more times that size, would be odd and confusing and worthy of a comment "there was so much of it."

...which was proven when an experimental Mogul balloon was shot down a few years ago to see if the experimenters could create the kind of debris field reported on the Foster ranch. As it was, the experiment a few years ago proved once and for all that no Mogul balloon could have created the debris field noted my Marcel.

"...proved once and for all"? That experiment used a BB gun to shoot out balloons one by one to see if it would leave a similar path of debris. They had 10-12 balloons and by the time the last balloon was popped, the "array" was probably 15 feet off the ground. With the last shot, it of course "crashed" with very little force. Tell me how shooting out balloons one by one with BB gun, in any way is an equal comparison to strong downdraft winds and driving rain over open, flat terrain during a "violent thunderstorm"? This storm was described as a violent electrical storm. Here's a better visual reference- Try flying a kite in the weather conditions used in that TV "experiment", then try the same experiment in the middle of a violent thunderstorm and tell me if you will have a different outcome with the kite. That TV comparison was laughable and purely for show with zero scientific credibility behind it.

The properties of the material that Marcel described in 1947 are similar to the new super materials developed over recent years. Now, we have inflatable spacecraft, and decades ago, the Goodyear Company developed an inflatable aircraft that actural flew with two people.

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say here. Goodyear or the government developed the technology of inflatable spacecraft through the "reverse engineering" of the Roswell alien spacecraft? Or this alien spacecraft was actually from our own future? Pretty wild claims with no supporting evidence if that's what you're saying. And actually a good representation of this case overall. There's a much simpler and logical answer, just not as fun as "crashed alien spacecraft" I guess.

So I can assume you believe it was just an astronomical coincidence that both our radar targets of the 40's and this futuristic alien spacecraft were constructed using small lightweight beams, foil-like material, and supposedly "indestructible" material that broke into pieces no more than 4 feet in length, the same size of our own radar targets?

Surely the Government has extensive photographical and video documentation of the crash site and documentation and analysis of the debris recovered and if there is nothing truly to hide 70yrs on why is it not in the public domain.
My perspective is that something of importance crashed there and that it seems there was great attempts at obfuscation. But I am just a dummy with a theory.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Other than an astronomical coincidence, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation of why both balloon targets of the time and an alien spacecraft share the exact same construction methods.
That would be "simply amazing."

The usual suspects have given an explanation

Im waiting for an explanation as to how a weather balloon explains the memory metal and the odd coincidence that wright patterson shortly afterward had Battelle start researching. All this on top of the evidence that mogul #4 didnt fly.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Way to narrow it down. Now I completely believe you.

I think Skyeagle throwing around the "know" word was strong considering none of us were there, but really, what were you expecting for an answer? Even if we were there, we couldnt answer those questions.

I've come to suspect that Werner and his gang, focusing as was always their dream on manned spaceflight, were experimenting with effects of rocket launches on corpses -- possibly even children's corpses -- in modified V-2s

I think Redfern has a similiar theory and it seems more likely to me than the weather balloon. Birnes mentioned in the youtube video that we wrapped our planes in a similiar metal, not sure how well it would match. Doesnt answer the Bragalia find, but would explain the odd bodies.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Other than an astronomical coincidence, I'm still waiting for a reasonable explanation of why both balloon targets of the time and an alien spacecraft share the exact same construction methods.
That would be "simply amazing."

The usual suspects have given an explanation

That's the claimed properties of the debris, not the build construction of the supposed "alien spacecraft." I've yet to see a reasonable response to that question and why if they are two totally different objects, why would they be constructed the same way?

As I said many months ago in this thread, my description is purposely based on the very basic description by the first witnesses. I haven't included the smokey rubber strips, metal eyelets, tough paper, 4 inch rings, or any other eyewitness claim which would be in my favor of it obviously being a crashed balloon payload. Even with those three very basic items I point out (beams, foil, and size), you can't explain it away as simply a coincidence. Include crashing in the same general area where other balloon payloads have crashed, and during the exact time period at the beginning of experimental launches of Mogul, and it becomes freakishly similar.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Man, I'm glad you popped back in because I wuz reading the new posts and could only shake my head. Oh, I started to reply a few times and then just sighed and shook my head again.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Can you link newspaper articles before July 1947 that state the Air Force was launching experimental balloons designed to listen for Russian Nuclear weapon testing? I've searched and can't find any.

You can go to this link and on December 11, 1946, you will see the name; "Mogul".

contrails.iit.edu...

ou see no difference in size where 8+ radar targets would leave a larger debris field than 2 or 3 targets? The standard weather balloon targets are what Marcel and Brazel would find strewn across the desert. Finding a debris field 4 or more times that size, would be odd and confusing and worthy of a comment "there was so much of it."

The Air Force claimed that a Project Mogul balloon train #4 was launched on June 4, 1947, which was a full month before Brazel discovered the debris field on the Foster ranch. Brazel would have been in that field a number of times before the month of July and yet, he discovered the debris field in the first week of July.

A look at the Mogul balloon records, there was no Project Mogul balloon train #4 launched on June 4, 1947, and the reason given is because the day on June 4, 1946 was cloudy and there was a stipulation that no Mogul balloons be launched if the cloud ceiling was 20,000 or below.

Project Mogul balloons that were recovered by civilians never left a debris field as described by Brazel on the Foster ranch because rawin devices tend to stay intact as evident in these photos.

Recovered Rawin Device - 1

Recovered Rawin Device - 2

Recovered Rawin Device - 3

In regard to the rawin debris in Ramey's office, that is not what was recovered from the Foster ranch. That rawin device was taken off the shelve and deliberately destroyed by military personnel and placed on the floor to get the press off the backs of the military. We can take a look at the affidavit of Colonel Thomas Dubose, one of the officers who posed with the debris.

AFFIDAVIT

(1) My name is Thomas Jefferson Dubose

(2) My address is: XXXXXXXXXX

(3) I retired from the U.S. Air force in 1959 with the rank of Brigadier General.

(4) In July 1947, I was stationed at Fort Worth Army Air Field [later Carswell Air Force Base] in Fort Worth, Texas. I served as Chief of Staff to Major General Roger Ramey, Commander, Eight Air Force. I had the rank of Colonel.

(5) In early July, I received a phone call from Maj. Gen. Clements McMullen, Deputy Commander, Strategic Air Command. He asked what we knew about the object which had been recovered outside Roswell, New Mexico, as reported in the press. I called Col. William Blanchard, Commander of the Roswell Army Air Field and directed him to send the material in a sealed container to me at Fort Worth. I so informed Maj. Gen. McMullen.

(6) After the plane from Roswell arrived with the material, I asked the Base Commander, Col. Al Clark, to take possession of the material and to personally transport it in a B-26 to Maj. Gen. McMullen in Washington, D.C. I notified Maj. Gen. McMullen, and he told me he would send the material by personal courier on his plane to Benjamin Chidlaw, Commanding General of the Air Material Command at Wright Field [later Wright Patterson AFB]. The entire operation was conducted under the strictest secrecy.

(7) The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press.

(8) I have not been paid or given anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91

Signature witnessed by:
Linda R. Split
Notary Public, State of Florida

roswellproof.homestead.com...

I might add that there were two crash sites.

Brig. Gen. Arthur E. Exon

Gen. Exon has been the highest ranking military officer to come out and say directly that Roswell was the crash of a spacecraft and that alien bodies were recovered.

Brig. Gen. Arthur E. Exon


AF Roswell Study Contributor Admits- "It Was ET!"

The Lt. Colonel who was a major contributor to the Air Force's official 1997 study that concluded that the Roswell ET crash of 1947 is a "myth"- now states that the Air Force's Roswell report is itself a lie. The Colonel goes further to state that what he really believes to be true is that aliens actually did crash to Earth decades ago! He adds that he was "used" and that the the author of the Air Force report "was on a mission" with no interest in discovering what really happened at Roswell.

www.ufodigest.com...

a reply to: skyeagle409

You can go to this link and on December 11, 1946, you will see the name; "Mogul".

That link has 267 pages that are not really searchable. Can you narrow it down?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

You can go to this link and on December 11, 1946, you will see the name; "Mogul".

That link has 267 pages that are not really searchable. Can you narrow it down?

You're so lazy Zeta. I'm sure if you follow all those links and refute them one by one we can get these last two stragglers on board. Seriously, though...help. I can't, I just can't, man! How u be do, btw?

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

You can go to this link and on December 11, 1946, you will see the name; "Mogul".

That link has 267 pages that are not really searchable. Can you narrow it down?

You're so lazy Zeta. I'm sure if you follow all those links and refute them one by one we can get these last two stragglers on board. Seriously, though...help. I can't, I just can't, man! How u be do, btw?

I know, right. It is possible the word "Mogul" was printed somewhere in 1946. I will defer to Mr. Plasm who is probably the least lazy of us. I am doing well...
@10 seconds...

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Are you saying that's you at 10 seconds? Cool show, I envy you If you were there.

originally posted by: wtbengineer
a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Are you saying that's you at 10 seconds? Cool show, I envy you If you were there.

yes.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

A good reference

Perhaps a part of weather balloon was there also, but how much effort does it really take to snap balsa wood(practically none)? Were all the people who handled the memory metal mistaken or lieing? Why could Marcell not cut it with his knife? If it was mogul, the construction is known, yet we cant account for this memory metal.

On top of this, many of the people involved were familiar with weather balloons.

a reply to: The GUT

I really dont see how you think Mogul accounts for everything. It doesnt have to be alien UFOs, something along the lines of what Blue Shift or Redfern claims could also be possible.

a reply to: The GUT

I am showing December 11, 1946 on page 75 as displayed on the screen. On page 85, June 8, 1947, you will see where rancher, Sid West, recovered a Project Mogul balloon train. and yet, nothing on the level that Brazel encountered on the Foster ranch.