Rarely Do I Get This Emotional - America, If You Can't Care For Your Soldiers - Stop Fighting Damne

originally posted by:buster2010

I'd have traded the United States federal joint for Russian booze & hookers as well. I guess I'm not a man

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
There should be more.
Like the end of "The Hurt Locker" - gets home and finds that the only place he/she fits...anymore is - Hell.
My nephew came home...leaving a knee in Afghanistan. After getting another knee, and trying to live back in the real world, with all the real world mumbo jumbo...he opted to go back to Hell.
It rocks your view of the world - when you've taken or lost a life...for The Man.
My grandfather would tell of the war (WWII) but would never admit to, or account for another man's life.

I guess there's a Right way to make the transition.
But most of them can't find the reason or desire to make the transition.

Thanks - OP

a reply to: WanDash

I was born while my father was deployed in Vietnam. That was in '66. He returned home on leave in '70 and I got a sister. Then he finally came home, for good ( Retired after having served in both Korea and Vietnam ) in '73 (or '72 - hard to recall ).

My father died from cirrhosis of the liver in '96. My mother, to this day, tells me that I never actually knew my father... that the man who returned from Vietnam was not the man she married. This is not in a "aliens abducted and cloned" him sort of way that some ATS'ers might read into it. She meant that 'Nam changed him profoundly - to the point where he was not even close to the person he was before spending 8 years there.

I grew up with Jeckyl and Hyde for a father. He was always drinking ( I swear on my kids lives I have NEVER seen a person who could drink hard alcohol all day long, every single day, and function as he did - he had a career as an Air Traffic Control Supervisor at Boston, then Oakland centers and he was never sober for a moment of it ). When he was "OK" he was Superman, the most amazing Dad a person could want. Sadly he wasn't OK very often - and when he was it often shifted to "Not OK" on a dime. Because of him I've stood on the bridge of the Nimitz and the USS Constitution. I've seen Salem, Massachussettes. I've been to Yellowstone. I've been to both Disney theme parks. I've seen amazing things. That was the OK part of my Dad.

An example of the not OK one? Well, I'm not a tiny guy ( thin but pretty big ) and there is nothing about me that is feminine at all. The day my son was born, I phoned my dad to tell him that he was a grandfather - a first for him. His reply "I thought you were queer. Anyway, I have company and have to go.... *click*"

All in all he was one of the lucky ones. He found his coping mechanism ( Seagrams Seven ) and happened to scratch by until it killed him.

During my year away, living in a group environment, I roomed with a man named Benny (RIP) who was the other side of the coin and very much like the people in this video. He served, returned home and found nothing but hatred and vitriol. He was a Vietnam vet as well. It tore him to pieces and he never recovered. He turned to drugs.

Some months back Benny was found dead, in a ditch, under a train tressle, a few hundred yards from an intersection. Even though the street people ( I know this because I went around and questioned all of them ) said that Benny had been murdered over a drug deal gone south - the police and coroner simply chose to say that he'd been drunk, tried to climb over a stationary train, got jostled when it shifted and began moving, and ended up suffering a fatal head wound.

Point is - he was a veteran and nobody even cared. To them he was just a homeless bum. To me he was a friend and one Hell of a good human being.

I vote for the "stop fighting, damnit" part.

I say, Support our troops...bring them home...

If the rich want a war...let them fight it themselves

a reply to: Hefficide
My uncle, who served in 'Nam came back changed, as well.
His way back to this world was found in Dewars, Chivas' and Johnnie Walker...
Which, like your father, took him, as well.
Sorry about Benny.

Wow really, they accused him of treason, punishment death. Do you research before you comment? Yes it has been a while since last execution ( that we know of ). Still on the books though. a reply to: buster2010

Know you history most were volunteers and framers. Other living off the land not military trained. If it we not for them we would be lining up in red and blue coats still banging drums to warn them we were coming. It was those that fought out of uniform that made the difference. They were the first snipers too. True they learned it from fighting Indians. But they adopted it from hunting food. That is where it came from. You cannot wear bright colors walk yards from a dear banging a drum and playing a flute and expect the animal to stay there and wait for you. Not from the military though. I guess the schools or military do not care about teaching truth and history anymore. a reply to: buster2010

a reply to: roth1

My dad and other family members were in WW2 and Korea. They were very well taken care of after their time of service. There was a good education and housing program and medical. Something went wrong after Korea. My generation, Viet Nam, it was like we were just a POS. IMO, there were so many of us boomers, they were looking for a war to kill 56,000 of my generation. Yes, since WW2, congress and presidents will promise anything to get you over there to fight their corporate wars. And have no shame about pulling the safety nets in the name of "cut spending".

Agreed. But tactics in Nam were bad and support from those at home broke things down. Same is about to happen now. At least it should kill rate of civilians is crazy compared to actual combatants. Drones are worse. One guy shoots from an apartment of 200 units and the whole thing is destroyed. Uranium causing health problems like crazy. Just as bad as using agent orange. Except you aren't killing all the crops to feed the masses that include innocents. Things like that make it worse with more recruits to join the fight. War means risking your life. Be safe yes but at the expense of the civilians is wrong. You are supposed to be there to make it a better place for them not a nightmare. That recruit more to fight against you.
a reply to: MOMof3

a reply to: roth1

I hate war but I believe there is a time for it. Why don't we do war God's way? Kill everyone, in one sweep. Is war suppose to be humane and never end?

So if your enemy does it and kills all kinds of innocents it is bad. But it's ok for you? So F-ed up.a reply to: MOMof3

a reply to: roth1

What is war? Is it just a glorified gang fight?

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
I support the troops. But I don't support their orders.

So I don't confuse anyone. Say a troop is sent out to fight in the middle of nowhere. I don't like fighting and putting people in danger for political reasons but I'll support their safety and morale.

If only our military were used for defense instead of imperialistic offense! It's no secret what our military is used for, so joining up is essentially a statement that said joiner approves of what the military is used for. The world is getting more and more dangerous, especially for Americans, and making war for profit is only adding to the danger.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: roth1

I hate war but I believe there is a time for it. Why don't we do war God's way? Kill everyone, in one sweep. Is war suppose to be humane and never end?

Which god? Because the Christian god strictly prohibits violence as a means of resolving problems.

a reply to: centhwevir1979

Have you read the OT? I am not a christian. I believe there is God, but don't hold to any religion. But I have read the Bible being raised by christians. I will not forget how God ordered everyone killed in a war. Maybe people would not like war so much if it meant everyone died who was the loser.

a reply to: Hefficide

Good thread Hefficide. Unfortunately since many of those people who hate the U.S. government can't, or won't put the blame where it is due, on those politicians who are at fault, they would rather blame soldiers/veterans in general. Just like it was during and after the Vietnam war, history is repeating itself and once again those who decide to answer the call of duty get the focus of anger because they are the targets that are seen the most in the streets.

Too many people also blame all our soldiers and veterans for what a few bad apples have done, same as with police officers. Not to mention that most of those people could never understand what soldiers and veterans go through, or what they might have to do to survive or to save the brother/sister next to him/her. Those people will never even try to understand.

a reply to: Hefficide

Yet, still, it is because of them that you can have those opinions, so at least respect that.

I don't get it...are you as a normal adult human being saying to me...that if the US people (soldiers) didn't go OVERSEAS to fight imagined enemies....you would have been...what ? locked up in some Korean prison ? or nuked by the evil Russians ?

You are implying here that they are somehow protecting...your FREEDOMS...over the pond ? Because...someone is planning a US invasion ???


I can say with dead on certainty...you could have lived a peaceful/happy life if none of your friends/family ever went to war. Ever. And your valued freedoms would have been intact. You can take that to the bank.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Too many people also blame all our soldiers and veterans for what a few bad apples have done, same as with police officers. Not to mention that most of those people could never understand what soldiers and veterans go through, or what they might have to do to survive or to save the brother/sister next to him/her. Those people will never even try to understand.

I understand their plight....but to call them heroes is a stretch. Millions of people have died in wars...fighting for THEIR side. Whether that side is good or bad...is almost impossible to judge. Surely...the winners are always good...at least they are to themselves.

Are all war veterans good decent people ? no matter the side ? or is it just the US veterans... ?

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Your dead on certainty is dead wrong. My Grandfather fought in the first World War and two of my fathers older brothers fought in World War Two.

And that ignores that you're missing the entire point that those who go to fight largely do so because they want to make a difference. Some on ATS make it sound like eighteen year old kids sit around thinking "Hrm, do I flip burgers, go to college, or go kill brown people in other countries???" It's NOTHING like that. My youngest nephew is considering serving and it's because he wants to be part of a tradition - a tradition that not only established our Freedoms, but has secured them time and time again.

A government that calls upon it's citizens to voluntarily serve, promising them incentives like lifetime medical, and help with education upon their return should be held totally accountable to provide these things - along with support for the scars of war that so many return tainted with.

Even Rome, at the height of their greed and before their fall, had enough sense to provide a comfortable retirement for their returning soldiers. They didn't do this because it was right or moral - they did it because they were smart enough to know that if you fill your nation with starving, highly trained killers - bad things will eventually happen and Rome will fall.