5 Complete Lies About America's New $18 Trillion Debt Leve

The assumption is that the people in a position to actually make changes in any way care about what is happening. From their positions nothing could be better really. Take energy, for example. Back in the late 70's we had a 'gas crisis' when relations with the Middle East (Iran in particular) soured. Prices skyrocketed and we stood in gas lines as supplies were rationed. That was almost 40yrs ago. Over those nearly 4 decades what did TPTB do to counter what was clearly a significant strategic and economic threat to the U.S.? Exactly nothing. They have allowed the situation to become worse as prices --- which doubled after the 'gas crisis' --- have increased nearly five-fold since that 1978 wake-up call. So while TPTB are able to line their pockets 5-times faster than they could in the '70s why should they care about what we pay at the pump? This is only one example. The entire system is similarly rigged for the Elites. Or, as our conservative apologists would have us believe, thus is capitalism.

a reply to: stosh64

I've stopped worrying about when this supposed collapse will come and have started worrying about being happy now. Enjoying what we have while it lasts. The problem with prepping and doom porn, is that you invest all this time, energy, and effort into something that may not happen in your lifetime. I'd rather focus on the good things we have now than worry about if I can survive a tribulation that no one knows how it will play out.

I'm not saying that the collapse won't happen. I just don't care about when it will be anymore. When the time comes, I'll do what I have to do. Until then, I'm going to live it up.

originally posted by: arjunanda
OKee Dokee My ATS Peers.

FACT: For the last several years, the US government has been spending roughly 90% of its ENTIRE tax revenue just to pay for mandatory entitlement programs and interest on the debt.

As long as we are sorting out BS...

This claim is like a bank declaring that customer withdrawals from savings accounts are an expense..and deposits are income.

Medicare is not a "Tax" in the general sense. Nor SS...and both take in more than they spend each year...right now, if nothing changes, Medicare will continue to take in more than it spends until 2030. Social Security is also solvent..taking in more than it spends and is projected under current models to remain so until 2033.

These are programs that are Solvent...and treating them as an expense doesn't make sense. There is a reason they are called social "insurance".

Try this...instead of claiming that entitlements constitute 90% of spending...eliminate entitlements...both Revenues and expenses...Stop collecting social insurance and stop SS and Medicare payments and you will have a MUCH WORSE debt picture.

Or think of it this way...you take out a loan and buy a building for 10 Million...and you pay interest on that loan. That is a BIG debt, but you have renters that pay for the monthly mortgage and a little extra...at least until 2030...why would you decide to stop paying the bank? And if you stop paying the bank..you lose the building and the rental income that pays the loan.

Entitlements need tweaking, but they are the only component of the debt picture that is fully paid for on a consistent basis.

a reply to: Indigo5

Medicare is not a "Tax" in the general sense. Nor SS.

Yes they are. You know since payroll TAXES supposedly fund those programs.

These are programs that are Solvent

Oh really!

Funny how the capital gains surtax was created to pay for the revenue shortfall that PAYROLL TAX was suppose to be paying for.

Even after the employers are matching their contributions STILL DOESNT cover the benefits received.

Then they get the bright idea to force the minority to pay for the majority with the 'ALTERNATIVE MINIMUM TAX' to make sure them GD evil rich folks 'pay their fair share'.

Social programs from the big 3. SS,medicaid,medicaid is the LEADING CAUSE of the national debt.

Because the 'mob' is getting more out than they EVER pay in.

You can't spin that any other way.

Because if those programs were 'solvent' there would be no EFFING need to create new taxes, and raise taxes on other folks.

WHAT COMPLETE BULLSNIP.

The national debt is a scam, orchestrated by the Fed who creates money out of thin air and charges the U.S. government interest. So interest on nothing is nothing. Wake the hell up people and smell the dog excrement that is the Rothchild scam! "No one rules if no one obeys"- David Icke

I mean I vote anarchism, even though that option isn't "given" to us, funny that...

BUT, if I were to want someone to rule over me I would want them in such a tight contract that they can barely feckin breath!

Okay you have some loosely worded bill of rights etc, but why aren't there a team of lawyers somewhere that can write up an updated cast iron version? It's funny because gov likes to have us bound in contracts and so do companies! But they are not bound to us? This is the very first elemental problem.

There would be a way to keep corruption to a minimum, you could do something like, minimum wage as a base payment, the rest given after a public referendum had been passed as to whether the particular MP had done thier job to the populations satifaction.

But there are no REAL checks and balances to speak of. None... They just tell you what you want to hear, get in "power" lord it over you and grow more and more debt and live life lavish!

But meh, I reckon the feckless would still find some way to screw us. It's been this way for so long! Too long! What are we going to do about it... Vote for the next mug and round and round we go? I must say I am getting a bit sick of this ride!

a reply to: jude11

Yes and when the beast is going down, she will flail about and tear everything down she can with her, citizens, other countries, financial system, etc. And I just hope in the final last throes she doesn't launch her nuclear missiles on other innocent citizens of Space Ship Earth.

I don't see any way out, even if we can accelerate our oil export. It is just out of control. And the interest paid to borrow her own money from the Central Bankers is also ridiculous and one of the dumbest things ever allowed to happen here, or wherever they are located.

I like the idea of making an $18 Trillion dollar coin, which the US can still do (coin money) and paying it off in one motion. I mean the whole system is Fiat based on nothing. So, why not make a coin and be done with it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You need to stop living it up as you say, which is all presented to you and largely boring anyways, and try something that is neither denying or doing the best you can.

The best we can, is a total failure, and sham, and deep inside we all know this is true.

Either way, powerless, and no real future exists in these archaic forms of thinking.

I wonder if anyone can even fathom something outside of these paradigms, that keep us on the edge begging for more time.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Uh... Ok... So you want me to stop enjoying life and be miserable because it's all a lie? Forgive me if I don't jump to adopt such a dreary outlook on life.

My life is pretty laid back by the way. I work to earn money to go see live music. Music is pretty much my life.

a reply to: ParasuvO

Umm does that mean I have to sell my new boat? dang I really like it,I mean we sold our homes to get it. It's what we have worked years for to be happy but that's all wrong!! Dang I would have never guessed. Anybody want to buy a 55 foot boat and slip on Lake Michigan. Oh wait I can't sell it that might make somebody else happy. I know I'll keep it and hate every minute of living on it just to keep other people from being happy. I do feel better now!!





Keep the boat so someone else doesn't have to suffer through being happy !!! Great plan making someone else miserable sure does feel good!!!

How does the PTB in the US keep the citizens in control.. so docile? Wow..unbelievable that a country like the US has let it come this far. There must come a moment when the income is lower than the rent which must be paid. When that moment has arrived there is a miracle needed.

With these massive bank frauds in the recent past with no arrests of people responsible it can not be other than that this immense debt is caused by powerful people stealing vast amounts of money. I am sure that if a talented forensic bookkeeper will dive into this financial tragedy for the US he will find something really nasty.

I really hope that the masters of the USA will not drag the rest of the world with them into the abyss with a total reset in the form of a Mutual Assured Destruction of the planet... the only way out option.

I have been telling everyone the same thing.Not possible to fix this insane amount of debt.It will consume the U.S. eventually with a default and massive unemployment.People refuse to face and look at real truth.

a reply to: arjunanda

Is our tax revenue the same as it was in 1981?

If you look at revenue (income) vs debt, we're in better shape now than we were in the mid 1940's.

It's not great, but it's not that bad, and in fact, our debt:GDP ratio has improved the past few years.

The sky isn't falling, unless the average job still pays what it did in 1980.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Indigo5

Funny how the capital gains surtax was created to pay for the revenue shortfall that PAYROLL TAX was suppose to be paying for.

Even after the employers are matching their contributions STILL DOESNT cover the benefits received.

You are wrong on both counts.

You appear wholly ignorant and confused on the issue? I'd try to explain if I thought math or reality mattered to you.

a reply to: Indigo5

I'd try to explain if I thought math or reality mattered to you.

Please do.

I am interested in the explanation.

a reply to: phishfriar47

You're close to understanding the reason fiat currency curses us with rampant inflation while ensuring the have-nots remain "have nots" and the wealthy maintain their positions of oppulence. Everything you asked is answered easily and solidly when a currency is backed by gold or other precious metals. When all you have backing the currency is "the full faith of the United States", something which is a complete joke when dealing with a government as faithless and undeserving of faith as America is stuck with, it is all smoke and mirrors.

a reply to: arjunanda

Yup

DEBT CLOCK

Double Post

Don't have time to get too deep in this thread right now, but my first thought was…

While the seeds of division are being sown among the masses, the powers that be are destroying the country with this massive debt. Have you asked yourself, what will be left to fight over, once they are done?

a reply to: neo96

Social programs comprise most of the national debt?

What about military spending? bailouts (TARP), loaning money to insolvent banks that we borrow from the fed, wasteful spending by EPA, DHS, HHS, FDA, all the other stupid government agencies. FBI CIA NSA

BLACK BUDGET ANYONE? How much was missing after 9/11? how many trillions?

clearly something is wrong here. doesn't help that NAFTA exported how many businesses that aren't paying tax on incoming goods?

Corporate taxes lowest that they've ever been but the export labor because of (guess what) taxes paid on workers. Irreparable damage has been done to our way of life by allowing foreign corporations to do whatever they want in this country and undercut domestic business.

I'm sure theres plenty more waste and fraud that is unreported.