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originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
DISCLAIMER: There are just my thoughts, and opinions.
I am an atheist, and I do not dispute that Yeshua (Jesus's real name, btw) was real.
He was a man who taught love and tolerance (mostly), and was persecuted, and summarily executed by people who were afraid of change.
I do not believe he had divine provenience, or was a messenger of any Deity. He was just a man, with message.
His message is what should be preached in churches. One of unfailing love for your fellow man, and the selflessness of being charitable. That message today is overshadowed in churches by the hellfire and damnation "God" of the old testament, who was even by self admittance jealous and petty. (That also begs the question, how can a being who created the entire universe, is far beyond our own human comprehension, and loves every single one of his creations be jealous and petty? If god is above man, why does he have human failings?)
I digress. Yeshua was real, his message was real, his god is not.
originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
God doesn't lie either - but he veils the truth from those who consider themselves wise in their own eyes. Finding the truth is a matter of humility and the acceptance of our need for grace (nobody can be counted pure in the eyes of God... Perseverance in seeking the person of God is the key. If we knock, the door will be opened. After that, it's just a matter of time until he 'leads us into all truth' by the power of His Spirit.
originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
The nature of the Truth is that not everyone hears it. The proof of God is everywhere. Creation itself is proof. Knowing the Truth and proclaiming it is not pride. I can provide evidence, which I already have, but proof is something that comes from God.
The truth is either God revealed the truth or He didn't. The truth is you have been given the ability to seek the truth. Where there is smoke... Me, I know because I spent years seeking. My God has revealed Himself to me. He does that after you seek Him. He does it because He said He would. You can't know if I am telling the truth, though. That is because God designed your reality so that it is up to you, personally, to seek the truth. If you hear it, and believe it, you will seek God. And then you will know what I know.
originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
You are an open-minded sort of person, by the look of things! A rare thing in these days and times. I would advise you to pray a simple prayer, and see what happens. Test it out! Simply say: ''God, if you are real, would you reveal yourself to me in some way. I want to know the Truth...''
That's what I did ten years ago, and the very next day someone walked past me in the street, before stopping, turning back and pointing to me. She said: '"You've been praying. God answers prayer. Come with me...'' She was prompted by the still, small voice of calm, the voice of God's own Spirit, who lives with all believers, to be an intermediary between me and God, to prove His existence, so that I could answer the call of God, to give my life to Him.
I came to faith in Christ through her talking with me, and since that day God has shown me a thousand things that I would have no natural way of knowing. He does so in order to help us in real, practical and spiritual ways, and to help others to come to know Him. He desires for you to walk with Him, and to know His voice, and to bless your life in a million different ways.
Take it or leave it - but I hope you take it, in faith. Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you. Don't bother with 'Droidus the spirit guide' (or others like him) - he has no answers for anyone; not even those who are devoted to him. God Himself will be your guide.
The Bible tells us that if we DILIGENTLY seek God, that He will reveal Himself to us. So have at it! Just say "God if you are real, SHOW ME!" Say it out loud, and be patient and DILIGENT - Do it each day diligently and persistently until He shows up. It won't be God the Father, but it will be either Jesus or an angel who will appear to you or you will hear His voice - either in your spirit or audible. He will do it in His timing, not yours, so be persistent and diligent and patient!
originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: Tangerine
And what would exactly would be the point?
If you actually WANTED proof, you would seek God and He would give it to you personally.
If I gave you a list of people who saw Him what good would that do you?
I had an encounter that convinced me personally, telling YOU about isn't going to do squat didly for you.
Many others here on ATS who have also sought out the truth can verify this as well.
I'm speaking from experience BTW so save your speech.
At some future point in your life you are going to NEED the truth.
It would be to your OWN benefit to seek it out before that time arrives.
If you should ever change your mind and actually WANT it at some future point, you know where to find it.
God never forces himself on anyone.
Nor will he force anyone against their will to go to Heaven.
This is why He waits for us to make the first move.
Ask, seek, and knock.
Uh..the point of testable evidence would be proving your claim, of course. If you can't cite testable evidence, your claim is not fact, it's simply a claim. If you actually wanted me to seek God, you would cite testable evidence proving that God exists, otherwise it's like telling someone to travel to Zorkolon and not presenting any testable evidence that a place called Zorkolon even exists. IF someone gave you a list of people who claim to have met Odin or Martians would that prove that Odin or Martians exist? No. Those are simply claims not testable evidence.Threatening me by telling me that I am going to "NEED the truth", just tells me that what you really want is for me to believe in you. No thanks. Frankly, the thought of spending eternity with people who make threats isn't at all appealing. I often wonder why proselytizers think it is.