If Jesus Christ Never Existed as some claim, who then said these amazing and awe inspiring words?

If Jesus Christ never existed, then who uttered these words?

The Sermon on the Mount

CH5: Jesus saw the crowds and went up a hill, where he sat down. His disciples gathered around him,
2 and he began to teach them:

True Happiness
3 “Happy are those who know they are spiritually poor; the Kingdom of heaven belongs to them!
4 “Happy are those who mourn; God will comfort them!
5 “Happy are those who are humble; they will receive what God has promised!
6 “Happy are those whose greatest desire is to do what God requires; God will satisfy them fully!
7 “Happy are those who are merciful to others; God will be merciful to them!
8 “Happy are the pure in heart; they will see God!
9 “Happy are those who work for peace; God will call them his children!
10 “Happy are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires; the Kingdom of heaven belongs to them!
11 “Happy are you when people insult you and persecute you and tell all kinds of evil lies against you because you are my followers.
12 Be happy and glad, for a great reward is kept for you in heaven. This is how the prophets who lived before you were persecuted.

Salt and Light
13 “You are like salt for the whole human race. But if salt loses its saltiness, there is no way to make it salty again. It has become worthless, so it is thrown out and people trample on it.
14 “You are like light for the whole world. A city built on a hill cannot be hid.
15 No one lights a lamp and puts it under a bowl; instead it is put on the lampstand, where it gives light for everyone in the house.
16 In the same way your light must shine before people, so that they will see the good things you do and praise your Father in heaven.

Teaching about the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true.
18 Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with—not until the end of all things.[a]
19 So then, whoever disobeys even the least important of the commandments and teaches others to do the same, will be least in the Kingdom of heaven. On the other hand, whoever obeys the Law and teaches others to do the same, will be great in the Kingdom of heaven.
20 I tell you, then, that you will be able to enter the Kingdom of heaven only if you are more faithful than the teachers of the Law and the Pharisees in doing what God requires.

Teaching about Anger
21 “You have heard that people were told in the past, ‘Do not commit murder; anyone who does will be brought to trial.’
22 But now I tell you: if you are angry with your brother you will be brought to trial, if you call your brother ‘You good-for-nothing!’ you will be brought before the Council, and if you call your brother a worthless fool you will be in danger of going to the fire of hell.
23 So if you are about to offer your gift to God at the altar and there you remember that your brother has something against you,
24 leave your gift there in front of the altar, go at once and make peace with your brother, and then come back and offer your gift to God.
25 “If someone brings a lawsuit against you and takes you to court, settle the dispute while there is time, before you get to court. Once you are there, you will be turned over to the judge, who will hand you over to the police, and you will be put in jail.
26 There you will stay, I tell you, until you pay the last penny of your fine.

Teaching about Adultery
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’
28 But now I tell you: anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart.
29 So if your right eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away! It is much better for you to lose a part of your body than to have your whole body thrown into hell (Gehenna).
30 If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away! It is much better for you to lose one of your limbs than to have your whole body go off to hell.

Teaching about Divorce
31 “It was also said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a written notice of divorce.’
32 But now I tell you: if a man divorces his wife for any cause other than her unfaithfulness, then he is guilty of making her commit adultery if she marries again; and the man who marries her commits adultery also. Teaching about Vows
33 “You have also heard that people were told in the past, ‘Do not break your promise, but do what you have vowed to the Lord to do.’ 34 But now I tell you: do not use any vow when you make a promise. Do not swear by heaven, for it is God's throne;
35 nor by earth, for it is the resting place for his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 Do not even swear by your head, because you cannot make a single hair white or black.
37 Just say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’—anything else you say comes from the Evil One.

Teaching about Revenge
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But now I tell you: do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, let him slap your left cheek too.
40 And if someone takes you to court to sue you for your shirt, let him have your coat as well.
41 And if one of the occupation troops forces you to carry his pack one mile, carry it two miles.
42 When someone asks you for something, give it to him; when someone wants to borrow something, lend it to him.

Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your friends, hate your enemies.’
44 But now I tell you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may become the children of your Father in heaven. For he makes his sun to shine on bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do good and to those who do evil.
46 Why should God reward you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that!
47 And if you speak only to your friends, have you done anything out of the ordinary? Even the pagans do that!
48 You must be perfect—just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

www.biblegateway.com...

Can anyone point to me who said the above if it wasn't Jesus Christ?

a reply to: edmc^2

Surely for those of you who are convinced that Jesus Christ never existed, these words of his can be easily proven and debunked as fake.

So here's your chance.

What say you?

This man. He sold him a pamphlet.

originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: edmc^2

Surely for those of you who are convinced that Jesus Christ never existed, these words of his can be easily proven and debunked as fake.

So here's your chance.

What say you?

Someone else said it and attributed them to a messianic figure to make it a better story?

I read a book where a character named "Uncle Ben" told his nephew, "...with great power there must also come -- great responsibility!" So prove to me that Uncle Ben did not exist and did not say these words.

pics or it didn't happen

a reply to: edmc^2

Lol, this is the funniest thing I have read in ages.

If someone brings a lawsuit against you and takes you to court, settle the dispute while there is time, before you get to court. Once you are there, you will be turned over to the judge, who will hand you over to the police, and you will be put in jail.

You are claiming that Jesus said this?

And if one of the occupation troops forces you to carry his pack one mile, carry it two miles.

Jesus said this? Really.

You must be having us on mate.

Well, it kept me amused.

P

A congrigation in Alexandria. It wasn't just one person who said all that but among those who identified themselves as jesuits during those times got many ideas from non christian doctrains that existed in Alexandria. The proof is at Kumran.

Where the original copies of the Torah were found where they were placed there sometime between 200BC-50 AD. Most likely after 38 AD after Alexandria was attacked.

So if these scrolls that originally were stored in Alexandria made their way to the caves at Kumran where the original Jesus movement was made than it is only logical that Alexandria and the Jesus mythos are interconnected.

I would wager that this Jesus movement as well as the muslim empires would not exist had alexandria never been established.

That should say a lot. What was Alexandria like? well almost any religion was welcome there, not only that but you could write your own doctrains by learning how to read for free. Many slaves went to Alexandria to become scribes who before couldn't read or write a sign.

That's why there is so much poor man talk in there because many of the scribes who wrote the pages that were later used for the bible were all broke **** that hated authority. The Jesuits learned about the Jewish torah, Wrote around it. And since they were so pissed off at the Romans ( Who were influenced by the Jews at the time) Decided that it was a great idea to pretend that the Jewish messiah had already came and was killed by non other than the Jews who hide behind the Roman politicians.

This pissed rome off so they went to burn the threat down, Alexandria. Later Paul was persuring these cultists from jerusalem to kumran, Where he burned down kumran then chased them to jerico. On the way he changed his mind and decided to take the scripts from kumran when he pillaged it and bring them back to rome. He wasn't quite sure where they were heading so he gave up and thought what he had with him would be good enough. At that point Cesar had been assasinated and the roman religion went through an overhaul. Where the priests and bishops of the temples got together and drew up what the new torah would be. They incorperated what ever they had retreived from alexandria to build up the old torah, the old testament. But it was heavily fragmented. Because the Jesuits went straight for the torahs and other scrolls when Alexandria was being attacked. They took them before the romans could get them, so they only had copies of the torah and not the original.

They had to use what they had and with this new gospel written by James the Just the supposed brother of Jesus who started the cult at Kumran.
A lot of the stuff cried out about inequality. Because as mentioned these were once slaves who had no prior knowledge of reading and writing. So when their thought could actually be expressed on paper it was really emotional and inspiring. They decided to keep many of these tests and unified them into the new testament. They created the bible. Albeit a small one. Not nearly as complete as it is today since the dead sea scrolls were discovered at Kumran in the caves.

But basically it's not like these jesuits just came up with all this information out of thin air. They had all the tools and documents needed to forge doctrains. They had all the training in reading and writing they could need from Alexandria the only place on the planet at the time that taught slaves how to read and write.
And not only that but there is physical evidence these people had been residents of Alexandria because of the horde of scrolls found at kumran which orginated from Alexandria. BOOM.

The whole religion is a falicy.

There were some 400+ rules that were omitted from the new testament because they only applied to people living at kumran. Lots of the stuff in there really does not make sense because in all honesty it wasn't intended for the world to see...

It's not until the extra scripts were thrown in there to make it seem as such, and having prior knowledge of Yahweh really helped them develop a non waring god under the same attributes. Both Yahweh and Jesus are conduits to the heavens. Both are men. Jesus forgives where as Yahweh will get revenge.
Paul however wrote the lot about authority into the book. As James was opposed to Authority. There is many statements in the bible which point to this. Where as pauls interpritations as well as the other priests incorperated the priest hood into it. Well other verses condemned the priesthood. So as you can see, the original text had conflicting beliefs.

That's why there is so many contradictions in the bible, its no mystery.

If you want to truth about humanity and it's origins you will need to advanced in picture/image interpritation because words are only ideas. Pictures speak more truth than words could ever acomplish.
So search for images of ancient civilizations, and draw up conclusions on what you think really is going on.
These books are no different than getting advice from a scammer who wants their hand in your pocket.

Don't trust people, but help them. Not to your coin of course but help people if they need it.
Because just as the world is corrupt now it is and was just as corrupt in the passed.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: edmc^2

Lol, this is the funniest thing I have read in ages.

If someone brings a lawsuit against you and takes you to court, settle the dispute while there is time, before you get to court. Once you are there, you will be turned over to the judge, who will hand you over to the police, and you will be put in jail.

You are claiming that Jesus said this?

And if one of the occupation troops forces you to carry his pack one mile, carry it two miles.

Jesus said this? Really.

You must be having us on mate.

Well, it kept me amused.

P

Yes he did.

Take this for example.

If someone brings a lawsuit against you and takes you to court, settle the dispute while there is time, before you get to court. Once you are there, you will be turned over to the judge, who will hand you over to the police, and you will be put in jail.

Do you see the wisdom in what Jesus said about settling matters early on?
Many disaster and heartache had been prevented because people were sensible enough to talk to each other and settle matters rather than suing each other.

Now why are you against this sound advice I don't know.

Never mind

Jesus didn't wrote a word of the bible. There was only 2 people who wrote the New Testament who *met Jesus* and that was his brother and his brothers friend...

Everyone else assumed off these guys statements and the scrolls they carried it must all be true right lol.

Sarcasm.

I'll play the Devil's advocate on this one.

It could be that people were wiser in the past then they are today. There's a lot of things that distract us today, that keeps people from advancing towards spiritual truth, which is why there are many selfish egotistical people in the world today and as long as people are like that, they will never understand the true meaning of Jesus teachings.

Maybe the OT wasn't controlling the population the way TPTB wanted, it used to be an eye for an eye and things go really out of hand. So they 'invented' Jesus and say turn the other cheek. What better way to control a population other then telling them spiritual truths to believe in that will ultimately resonate with them. What better way to stop people for killing each other then to given them hope that they are saved thanks to Jesus who died for their sins on the cross.

It's not the wisdom the Jesus Christ teaching that ultimate led me to believe in him but the prophecies he foretold what would take place before he would return.

2 Timothy 3:2

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,…

Yes people have been saying the end is near for years, but of course they would because everyone wants to feel special and believe that it is their Generation that will return the return of the Messiah.

But with things like Facebook, which really DUMB down people by making them believe in their own illusion so much that they develop such a huge ego like never before. There's never been so many narcissistic teenagers as there is today when compared to just 20 years ago.

There's never been such people obsessed with themselves as they are today. Just look at how many selfies people take of themselves daily, it's SAD. Just watch people walk by windows everywhere you go, they are always checking themselves and making sure they look perfect. It's SAD.

All I'm saying that it's going to get worse before it gets better if things continue as they are. People are just not aware what's really happening because they simply don't care because they are too caught up in themselves.

Wake up. The reason we are here is because God wants us to succeed in establishing our own Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven. The Devil is winning, with the very tools he's using against us - music, porn, facebook, cellphones and boy don't get me started on cellphones because they are the WORST. Cellphones have everything all in one, people would rather stick their face in their phones and pretend they are busy then talk to a stranger. We are entering the awkward age thanks to us not being ready for all the things we have taken for granted.

Thanks for making this thread OP, you motivated me to speak on the things I've been wanting to speak about for awhile now because these are the things I've been trying to get people to see. Question is are we going to take up our cross and make it our responsibility to save the World from destruction? So our children's children can enjoy this beautiful planet and everything it has to offer because living is truly a gift to be experienced and the experience will only get better as technology progress.

a reply to: AnuTyr

What you said can easily be debunked by the following words of Jesus:

Teaching about Revenge
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But now I tell you: do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, let him slap your left cheek too.
40 And if someone takes you to court to sue you for your shirt, let him have your coat as well.
41 And if one of the occupation troops forces you to carry his pack one mile, carry it two miles.
42 When someone asks you for something, give it to him; when someone wants to borrow something, lend it to him.

Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your friends, hate your enemies.’
44 But now I tell you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may become the children of your Father in heaven. For he makes his sun to shine on bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do good and to those who do evil.
46 Why should God reward you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that!
47 And if you speak only to your friends, have you done anything out of the ordinary? Even the pagans do that!
48 You must be perfect—just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


If as you say, the sayings were put together by unknown groups of people who were under the Roman yoke / authority:

Why then say to:

Love your Enemies and pray for them?

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your friends, hate your enemies.’
44 But now I tell you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Throughout the Scripture Jesus theme is based on Love not hate.



Also why would Matthew, Luke, and John use James' writings if they themselves said were witnesses of what happened?


So what you said doesn't make sense.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
Jesus didn't wrote a word of the bible. There was only 2 people who wrote the New Testament who *met Jesus* and that was his brother and his brothers friend...

Everyone else assumed off these guys statements and the scrolls they carried it must all be true right lol.

Sarcasm.

You're correct, Jesus did not write a word in the Bible, his apostles did. That's why I said "Jesus said".

originally posted by: StoutBroux
It's gonna be tough tonight to get a good discussion on this. Rome (Ferguson MO and other major US cities) is burning and the focus will be mostly on the corresponding threads. Maybe give it a bump tomorrow?

That's why I made the post - to calm down nerves. Too much hate floating around.

Sakyamuni Buddha.

a reply to: edmc^2

Do you see the wisdom in what Jesus said about settling matters early on?
Many disaster and heartache had been prevented because people were sensible enough to talk to each other and settle matters rather than suing each other.


Now why are you against this sound advice I don't know.

I've got better advice that takes less time to say. Do no harm.

Whoooop whoooop throw me a parade!

The truth is, the bible is not EVIDENCE of anything. Every single time a christian fundamentalist claims something from the bible as fact I laugh. Only a omnipotent GOD can say wise things. So therefore wise quotes from the bible must only mean they came from a god. Therefore Jesus is real.

Don't do any online IQ quizzes. You might be disappointed when the logic portion starts.

a reply to: edmc^2

Now why are you against this sound advice I don't know.

They did not have Police 2000 years ago,

Once you are there, you will be turned over to the judge, who will hand you over to the police, and you will be put in jail.

Where do you get this stuff from!

P

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: edmc^2

Do you see the wisdom in what Jesus said about settling matters early on?
Many disaster and heartache had been prevented because people were sensible enough to talk to each other and settle matters rather than suing each other.


Now why are you against this sound advice I don't know.

I've got better advice that takes less time to say. Do no harm.

Whoooop whoooop throw me a parade!

The truth is, the bible is not EVIDENCE of anything. Every single time a christian fundamentalist claims something from the bible as fact I laugh. Only a omnipotent GOD can say wise things. So therefore wise quotes from the bible must only mean they came from a god. Therefore Jesus is real.

Don't do any online IQ quizzes. You might be disappointed when the logic portion starts.

Do no harm is good but this is better:

Matthew 7:12 “Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them.”—The New Testament in Modern English, by J. B. Phillips.

Or these:

37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and the most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ Matthew 22

Now who can top that?

a reply to: pheonix358

It's a modern translation. Older translation went like this:

[Mat 5:25 KJV] 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

don't you see the point of my reference tho? The eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is a direct quote of the Jewish torah.

Now how did a bunch of poor people who couldn't read and write suddenly learn to read and write and quote from books that only ever had a handful of copies in the world during that time.

You do realize that the people who wrote those books had acess to a large library in order to cross reference such statements word for right?

It's not like everyone spoke hebrew back then, So where did they get the knowlege to read and write in hebrew, greek and latin?

Seems kinda suspecious dosn't it?