If Jesus Christ Never Existed as some claim, who then said these amazing and awe inspiring words?

a reply to: edmc^2

The Father (Elohim).

John 12

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

a reply to: edmc^2

Content doesn't imply authenticity. Just because it is inspiring doesn't mean it was said by who it is attributed to. I generally think that Jesus existed, but I won't condone such a blatant fallacy.

President Whitmore says a pretty inspiring speech at the end of Independence Day, but that doesn't mean there was really a President of the United States named Whitmore or that he even said that.

The Sermon on the Mount could be more succinctly paraphrased.
"If thou dost not be a dick, thou shalt be cool."

Uhhhhhh........man?

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: edmc^2

The Father (Elohim).

John 12

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Or, John 14:10 "The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me."

Or, Matthew 10:20 "For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

Or 1 Peter 4:11 "If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God"

a reply to: edmc^2

We'll never know. Neither will you. There were no cameras or tape recorders so...it was retold, reworded, retold dozens of times until it was written down.

Even you are now quoting the same way. Are you maybe missing anything? Adding something someone else added? You don't know....

And don't quote the "faith" angle. You can't PROVE any of it in exact terms....that is the point you started here...yet you quote exactly....spend your whole life trying...and you quote from stories. Period.

MS...a Christian Realist

a reply to: edmc^2

Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Really? What does that even mean!?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Does that mean people who are bereft of spirituality gain an elevated place in Heaven? What does "Poor in spirit" mean, lacking faith?

Jesus, if he existed was a liar.

John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

John 15:7
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.

Luke 11:9-13
And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Mark 11:24-25
Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.

(Matthew 7:7-8
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Matthew 18:19-20
Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.

Matthew 21:21-22
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

If Jesus answers all of your prayers, what are you Christians asking for?

If Jesus was really the Son of God, and really cared about healing the sick, why didn't he teach his followers about germs and cleanliness?

What kind of responsible spiritual leader says this?

Mark 16:18
These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

How many people over the last 2000 years have died because of those irresponsible bogus claims?

a reply to: edmc^2

Thanks for the astounding read ed!

SnF

Are you serious? You're basically asking, "If you claim that Jesus is an imaginary figure, then how could he have said these things?" Well, genius, if someone made him up, then they probably made up that garbage too.

Oh some guy in a book said some words you like...if that's not proof that the guy in the book actually existed as presented, I don't know what is...stupid atheists! AS IF someone could write inspiring words and them attribute them to a fictional character, or just some person...totally impossible...

a reply to: edmc^2

The person/people who wrote the bible... How is that hard to comprehend?

Matthew 27:52-53....
Huge earthquake, and the "Saints" (Jewish saints?) rose from the tombs etc.

The other gospels neglect to mention this. Why would that be do you think?
Either it never happened, and whoever wrote the Gospel of Matthew just made it up; or it did happen, but such things were so commonplace that the other gospel writers thought it too mundane.

Okay, that is ONE example of a massive inconsistency with the remaining texts.
What other things attributed to the life of Jesus are made up? Sows a seed of doubt in the logical, and is completely ignored by the pious.

A la carte religion is infuriating to me.

Most of Jesus's "popular" teachings were taken from John the Baptist. Jesus was a politician planning a coup and a revolution. John the Baptist was a true holy man with a fairly large following and a popular philosophy.

That's why Jesus insisted on John baptizing him, and later arranged for John to be killed. Jesus needed his following for his bigger plan.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: edmc^2
If Jesus answers all of your prayers, what are you Christians asking for?

Things that are in line with the principles of God. Your wish to remove hell, will not come through, it remains for ever, as do heaven.

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: edmc^2
If Jesus answers all of your prayers, what are you Christians asking for?

Things that are in line with the principles of God. Your wish to remove hell, will not come through, it remains for ever, as do heaven.

What things are those? Things like healing the sick and feeding the poor? If Jesus answers ALL of your prayers, why are there still so many sick and starving children?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: edmc^2

Jesus, if he existed was a liar.

John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

John 15:7
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.

No, He's Not!

Everything I ask for in his stead, using his words, happens

Men would live exceedingly quiet if these two words, mine and thine, were taken away.

Anaxagoras: Died 428 BC

As iron is eaten away by rust, so the envious are consumed by their own passion.

Antisthenes: Died 371 BC

Love is composed of a single soul inhabiting two bodies.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.

Aristotle: Died 322 BC

Happiness resides not in possessions, and not in gold, happiness dwells in the soul.

Good means not merely not to do wrong, but rather not to desire to do wrong.

Democritus: Died 370 BC

The measure of a man is what he does with power.

The community which has neither poverty nor riches will always have the noblest principles.

To prefer evil to good is not in human nature; and when a man is compelled to choose one of two evils, no one will choose the greater when he might have the less.

Plato: Died 347 BC



I could do this all day. People have been saying smart things for a long time... Can anyone prove there wasn't a man named Jesus who said the things you've quoted? No. Can you prove that there was a man named Jesus who said the things you've quoted? No.

Therefore, I'm confused about the purpose of your thread.

if you are really asking the question in earnest
then the answer is a hodge podge;
between Eastern philosophies, ancient Sumerian and ancient Egypt.
(Horus was called the Light and the Way as well as the Lamb of God)
And of course the main writer Flavius Josephus.
And like it or not much is metaphor for the Sun.

DISCLAIMER: There are just my thoughts, and opinions.

I am an atheist, and I do not dispute that Yeshua (Jesus's real name, btw) was real.

He was a man who taught love and tolerance (mostly), and was persecuted, and summarily executed by people who were afraid of change.

I do not believe he had divine provenience, or was a messenger of any Deity. He was just a man, with message.

His message is what should be preached in churches. One of unfailing love for your fellow man, and the selflessness of being charitable. That message today is overshadowed in churches by the hellfire and damnation "God" of the old testament, who was even by self admittance jealous and petty. (That also begs the question, how can a being who created the entire universe, is far beyond our own human comprehension, and loves every single one of his creations be jealous and petty? If god is above man, why does he have human failings?)

I digress. Yeshua was real, his message was real, his god is not.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Star to you sir.

Whoever tells me God wrote the bible will get the " Why are the names at the end of every passage?" "Why can it not just be 1 to 100 of basic rules what to do and how to be, with a signature - God ?" If its written by god let it say so.