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Why are there no Wankel Engines new conspriacy theory

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posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:30 PM
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Ok we all know that the Wankel Engine has very few parts.

There is one major problem though as I understand it. The seals keep failing so they cannot devlop an engine that is ideal for hydroygen fuels.

Just why can't they develop those seals?

Is this another conspiracy between the Oil companies? Keep in mind they meaning the major oil companies did manage to put an end to both the Nash Rambler and the Turner (Think that is the correct name could be wrong) because they both claimed very low gas milage. Think the Rambler had a carb that could get 50 MPH and that was in 47 or 49 imagine what they would get per mile these days had they actually developed it?

Or is this a conspiracy from the auto makers/ Steel and or Aluminum Companies? After all they use fewer parts meaning they would cost less to make and reduce their profits on replacement engine parts. ( I say this for one reason I understand they have very very few moving parts) Just how many am not sure, but heard at one time it was only four. (do not hold me to that though OK?)

Can you imagine what the world would be like if we could run all lawn mowers, cars, boats etc with very few parts and on hydrogen no less.
Lower cost to the average consumer, wow think of what that would mean?

Nay it is not possible everyone in the world will be in on this one and want to stop it for one reason or another.


Keep in mind if they did manage to complete it's development, we could say bye bye Iraq Oil and Middle eastern oil for that matter. I say this assuming that what oil the US has is enough to lubricate them properly.

What do you think. ?????????????????????????????



[edit on 12/9/2004 by shots]

[edit on 12/9/2004 by shots]




posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:36 PM
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My personal experience with rotary engines was not a problem with seals. It is transmissions. The lack of vibration and or sound causes one to drop the clutch at sometimes veru high RPM's. Kept blowing tranys....



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
My personal experience with rotary engines was not a problem with seals. It is transmissions. The lack of vibration and or sound causes one to drop the clutch at sometimes veru high RPM's. Kept blowing tranys....


While what you say may be true that is not the reason experts have given. They claim development is not possible because of seal failure. Do you perhaps have a link showing that it is because transmission failure is the cause?

Sorry forgot to include some info that is confirmed.

A: Rotary engines are inherently simple, and aside from giving them normal care, there is no special maintenance required. Of course, the easier you drive a rotary, the longer it will last, just like a piston engine.
Loss of compression past the apex or side seals is the main trouble with high-mileage rotaries, according to our research. Typically one apex seal goes, causing low compression and hard starting. Because each rotor gives three distinct compression pulses for each rotation, low compression from a bad apex seal is often heard as uneven cranking speed.
Compression testing will show poor apex seals, too.

mazdaclub.com...



[edit on 12/9/2004 by shots]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:41 PM
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I think the sealing issue is rubbish. Doesn't the rotary not rely on complicated valving and spring pressures? I think this is one reason the Wankel is better, because it has no parasitic horsepower loss driving a valvetrain. The two-stroke is similar in that it has no valves and can run at a higher RPM. Another idea that you might be insterested in, although I have no link, is some guy named Coates who invented an aftermarket cylinder head that did away with conventional valves and used a rotary valve instead. The only problem was the seals, which was circumvented by using ceramic seals. Do a Google for the Coates Engine.

Oh wait, here I did it for you:
Coatesengine.com

[edit on 9-12-2004 by ben91069]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:59 PM
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Because there is a lack of valve timing, wankles and even the improved wankle that mazda likes to call the renesis have trouble meeting emission laws. The seals dont wear out as quickly as youd think. Rotary engines do, however, burn oil because the walls of the rotory engine have to be lubed too and oil lubricating the walls is also where the combustion takes place. So instead of an oil change every 3-5k miles, you have to top off the engine every 1000 miles in between with about 1/2-1 quart. My friend owns a black 93 rx-7. Properly maintained, the seals are fine. replace the seals every 60,000 miles and you should never have to worry about them. Allbeit its less than the seals for a piston engine which can last very long indeed, its still not too bad.

Due to the "radius" of the rotor, rotary engines make very poor torque. But the rev very quickly. Remember, Torque = actual power, Horsepower = Speed at which torque can be applied. So if you have relatively low torque, but can rev quickly to generate substancial power, you can apply alot of your torque very quickly.


77

posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 08:14 PM
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Having lived in rough towns and cities and having been shot at I found that unpredictable back firing the most disturbing aspect.
There have been several high milage engines.
The inventors either sold out or died off.
What happened to the shaped battery?
Recylable plastic bodies?
Or for that mater Hemp oil? It produced better fuel that protected moving parts better than patroleum and it does not pollute the air.
It can be grown and while growing give off oxygen.
Hey, did William Randolf Hurst and Rockafella have any personal reasons to push for outlawing Hemp. I believe Hurst was the first to call it by it's Mexican name in the US. Could it be a Conspiracy? Would big oil conspire to produce a monopoly? I thing so.
Think about producing a fuel that is calculated to cost $2.40 a US Gal. after all those taxes but would cut terrorist funding more than any other single act.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 08:23 PM
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I thought that the wankel's were dropped because they got lousy fuel milage.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Kept blowing tranys....

Ha, you said blowing tranys. And you're all talking about wank.ha.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:50 PM
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Really mature Nygdan. I'm glad you could share.

From Live Steam Forums

These days, EMISSIONS is the real killer for the rotary, though. A rotary HAS to be oil injected, like a two stroke, to keep the rotor seals lubed (apex, side, corner seals). The seals are so effective that no oil gets to the outer areas of the combustion chambers. There is nearly no way to get the crankcase oil (which Mazda burns instead of two-stroke oil simply because of so much bad press on two-stroke cars over the years) to burn completely enough to pass today's strict emissions standards. The last generation of RX-7 was oiling under computer control at less than 100:1 and still couldn't get by.


So you see, emissions, that's the big deal. There's another rotary that works similarly without the problem of large surface area (the Wankel's large surface area dissipates a lot of head instead of allowing it to expand the gasses for work, which lowers the mpg).

They're really not all that more efficient, just simpler.. and even then, I know of a simpler one.

As for your comments about Hydrogen, well, you're just ignorant. You don't know what you're saying. Read through some of my message history, this has been done to death and I'm sick of it. Hydrogen doesn't grow on trees in its purified gaseous state.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 09:59 PM
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Rotary seals do blow, but I've had no issues with them. I have an 86 RX7 with 178,000 miles on it, and the engine is still entirely in tact. As for the poor MPG, mine will get between 26 and 31, depending on how hard I drive it. On BP 93 octane, I can get about 30 MPG.

As shbaz says, emissions is a very real problem for the rotary. Mine will use a quart of oil in about 1200 miles. Assuming you could make a rotary burn hydrogen, you will still have to lubricate it, and it will still burn oil like a bastard.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 10:58 PM
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... and hydrogen engines are a bitch to lubricate, because of the steam. Steam engines use a mix between petro oil and animal fat, and you'd need the same special (expensive) oil in a Wankel burning hydrogen.

Just an afterthought.

Check out the RX-8 fuel economy, not that good. I didn't realize the older RX series fared that well.

[edit on 12/9/2004 by shbaz]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 11:12 PM
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The only rotory engines I have experence with are in the RX-7 man do they like to blow up they are quite notorious for blowing up in the import crowd. RX-7 also produce some weak torque compared to the HP they make.

I can see why most car companies dont use them

[edit on 9-12-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by kaoszero
Rotary seals do blow, but I've had no issues with them. I have an 86 RX7 with 178,000 miles on it, and the engine is still entirely in tact. As for the poor MPG, mine will get between 26 and 31, depending on how hard I drive it. On BP 93 octane, I can get about 30 MPG.

As shbaz says, emissions is a very real problem for the rotary. Mine will use a quart of oil in about 1200 miles. Assuming you could make a rotary burn hydrogen, you will still have to lubricate it, and it will still burn oil like a bastard.


First thanks *all* for your input. I only put this out as a possible theory based on what Briggs and Stratton Engineers had said a few years ago. They stated seals were the major reason Briggs stopped development of one for lawn mowers and tractor engines.

There was never any mention of the pollution problem at that time, but it does make sense now that I know you have to add oil at those rates.

I once had a 49 Desotota that used the same amount of oil


My friends nicknamed it the blue cloud. You could see me coming and going for blocks. LOL



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:02 AM
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Piston engines go,.. boing, boing, boing,...
Masda Engines go ,... hmmmmmmmmm......



Yes they are simple in design compared to piston motor's,

But if anything internally goes wrong in the motor, seals or whatever,...

...have you ever had to tear down and reassemble a wankel?
Not fun at all, considering the gasket kit used, especially if it is just a minor repair, or recurring problem.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 11:10 AM
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Duh-oh!

Mazda,.. Datsun,... I easily mix them up.



[edit on 10-12-2004 by smirkley]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 01:24 PM
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wankel concept still have an big potential, but it came toooo late (when all the industry was standaricied by piston motors)

some guys try to compare the wankel design with turbines putting both as "rotary engines" but wankel design is complety diferent, the main problem is the combustioned gases "return" to the combustion chamber and the gases mix (like in the 2 cycles motorcycles engine), but im sure that if the industry invest an 10% of the resources destined for conventional piston engine research, we could have an small efficient motor, but with that you must change all the industry and future is for the electric-hidrogen engines



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Kept blowing tranys....

Ha, you said blowing tranys. And you're all talking about wank.ha.




ROTFLMAO ! thats funny



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Remember Chevy and I think Dodge put out a rotary car at one point.

Rotary's will last as long if not longer than most piston motors. The reason why they got a bad rep from the RX-7 crowd was due to the turbo models. Rotary's do not seem to like boost or the heat associated with it. Rotary's run hot enough with out any type of forced induction to catch grass on fire.
If a rotary overheats, you pretty much have to buy a whole new motor. You can replace the apex seals but thats about it..



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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A mate of mine, is a Mazda mechanic and they have a rotary engive which is cutaway so you can see the internal rotor, I dont know if other Mazda service agents have these, but it's well worth a look.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:49 PM
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Actually, if you're curious about the internals of the engine just look it up at howstuffworks.com. There are anims and everything describing how it works.



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