My rant about game making software

i created this video to gripe about game making software. it's made as if you have an entire game making team in your corner, when typically, the people buying it, are doing so, by themselves. this video describes what i think a successful 3d rpg game making program would necessarily have to do. if you're a game programmer or a person who makes game making software, this message is for you! lol

stop pretending like your customers are one man creation studios!

a reply to: undo

So, you want people like me to make a simple game making package that will create a public attitude about how their kid can make a complete game in school thereby destroying any potential for our future? Really? Sorry but I already lived this with web development in the 90's.

They will know all these things if they have a degree in Game Design and Development (3d modeling with max/maya/others, photoshop, art, storyboarding, programming, debugging, programming math concepts for game engine design... I could go on and on... ).

If someone does this a lot more people [like me] will be very upset their 6 figure degrees [student loan debt] will become worthless. Yes, some of us know all the areas you are talking about, it's called a BS in Game Design and Development. We are the target market, not joe smoe wants to make a game so he can say he's a game developer... I didn't go to evil game developer school so others could share my title.

No thanks.

However, I will agree with you that there needs to be a decent package for existing Game Designers... I have worked on some [rebuilt them], am licensed by several, and unhappy with most.

Change the target market to existing people with degrees and I will support this cause, otherwise... no, just no.

I am listening as I type... I already made a random name generator, easy. GUI switching... easy. Oh well thats enough to start the thread. Enjoy. Feel free to check out my online portfolio in the link below.

a reply to: Volund

it will inject the market with tons of people looking for models, for sound fx, for different fx, more features, more add-ons, more more more. some may want more features than one package provides or the programmer is willing to provide and that's where folks like you can make a better one. but as it stands currently, there's a huge market just sitting there, frustrated, and i mean it's a huge market. totally untapped.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Volund

it will inject the market with tons of people looking for models, for sound fx, for different fx, more features, more add-ons, more more more. some may want more features than one package provides or the programmer is willing to provide and that's where folks like you can make a better one. but as it stands currently, there's a huge market just sitting there, frustrated, and i mean it's a huge market. totally untapped.

I am sorry but I will not invalidate my degree. That being said I am always trying to make a better game engine for people that are familiar with them already.

a reply to: Volund


it doesn't invalidate your degree, it adds a bunch of new customers.

a reply to: undo

I love games. But, my brother recently told me that the max wage producers were to spend on Destiny was around 1/2 a Billion dollars. I was literally furious and have been getting turned off games since then.

There's starving Africans and homeless people dying and we're spending 1/2 Billion $ on corny entertainment. Maybe the Islamist radicals are right when they say death to the west.. LOL. Joking, but I'm disappointed.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Volund


it doesn't invalidate your degree, it adds a bunch of new customers.

If I made a program that analyzed lab report numbers for body fluids while diagnosing any sickness with 90% accuracy based on information provided by the customer along with it [lol at my edit] (and I guarantee they will be more honest with a soulless machine than a real dr). I could even analyze derma patterns from cell phone camera or use the same camera to monitor light through the lense for a pulse [been done]... throw in a google cross diagnosis and webMD... Imagine the uproar from the medical industry, they are already hating that people google their issues [just like they do when you're not looking]. This is no different... maybe I should do that... just kidding but someone will.

I think maybe you just haven't found the right game engine. What have you tried? There should always be some degree of difficulty, and there will always be some bored teen genius that is able to figure it all out... but making it for everyone to be able to do is just not good for Game Developers.

originally posted by: Emerald53
a reply to: undo

I love games. But, my brother recently told me that the max wage producers were to spend on Destiny was around 1/2 a Billion dollars. I was literally furious and have been getting turned off games since then.

There's starving Africans and homeless people dying and we're spending 1/2 Billion $ on corny entertainment. Maybe the Islamist radicals are right when they say death to the west.. LOL. Joking, but I'm disappointed.

well independent game makers don't make anywhere near that, at least 99.999999999 percent of them. (and it's understandable since big game studios have all the best of everything so it costs them a quarter (or more) of a billion just to make the game, vs. independent developers that have at most 10 people and typically no more than 3 or 4, and they are all working for free, hoping the game will sell so they can pay back their college loans (a bill for jobs that don't exist).

it's a career field, like any other career field.

a reply to: Volund

oh i've demo'ed pretty much everything with a free demo, which is pretty much all of them, nowadays. i've even tried going the youtube tutorial route with unity, but the guys making the tuts can be very inconsistent.

for example, one guy made 4 really nice tuts and then stopped. that was like 2 years ago. another one made several tuts but for a now obsolete version of unity, so it was hard to find the features he was talking about, as the interface had totally changed. i learned that if i was going work on a tut, it would have to be one based on the newest version of unity. so i found someone who was doing that, but if he was tired at all while making a tutorial in his series, he would leave stuff out and then not explain how to do the steps he skipped. the only way people would keep up with the series after that, is if they already knew how to use all of the unity features, and he didn't cover unity features, only those things we needed to click in order to create the c# scripts.

then there's the guys who have tuts for it but they want money and there's no guarantee that theirs will be any better than the free ones on unity. and then there's complete tuts but you can't use it for your own game. lol

and that's just my experience with unity. there's also hero engine. unreal studios. a-8. and a long list of others, some of which don't have rpg functions coded in and some of which BARELY have rpg functions coded in.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Volund

...

and that's just my experience with unity. there's also hero engine. unreal studios. a-8. and a long list of others, some of which don't have rpg functions coded in and some of which BARELY have rpg functions coded in.

Ok... this tells me a lot more... anyone who would spend the money on A8 has been through fru$tration, I know. I sent you a U2U.

originally posted by: Emerald53
a reply to: undo

I love games. But, my brother recently told me that the max wage producers were to spend on Destiny was around 1/2 a Billion dollars. I was literally furious and have been getting turned off games since then.

There's starving Africans and homeless people dying and we're spending 1/2 Billion $ on corny entertainment. Maybe the Islamist radicals are right when they say death to the west.. LOL. Joking, but I'm disappointed.

Africans are only starving because certain countries decided to fund proxy wars in order to advance their religious beliefs. As a consequence, the agricultural land becomes covered in landmines, guerilla groups kill parents and steal children, and the population starves. Look at Ethiopia - the country was self-sufficient in food production until the Marxist government started dictating how much food each farm should produce. When the quotas weren't reached they started punishing farmers, who then fled the country.

Game development has taken off in places like the UK and Europe, because we gave away our manufacturing to the developing world. If it weren't for the games industry, our own population would be unemployed, depressed and starving.

a reply to: stormcell

yes well markism is just institutionalized slavery.

here's a transcript of the video (give or take a few spots where i rambled)

how to make real-time 3d rpg creating software, that's actually successfully usable for new game designers and you'll be rich:

before starting, instruct them to download your 3d rpg creating software, to their desktop, open the zip file once its done downloading, and extract it to a folder on their desktop. do not let the computer choose it's own location somewhere else on the computer, as this may confuse the creator and be harder to access for adding models and textures. make sure the software doesn't add any of the files to libraries elsewhere on the computer. it should all be contained in the one folder on the desktop.

1. provide a point and click interface for everything. i mean everything, and take baby steps to make it easier to follow and use. have no other options in sight on the interface during each phase of creation except those options the game creator is currently learning how to put in their game for that step. break the steps up into smaller parts as often as necessary.

-the less confusing each step is, the easier it will be, the fewer questions there will be, the more succesful it will be. in other words, don't make this software for experienced game designers, make it for people who don't know how to program or script and who will be daunted by too many options, but who would otherwise love to make a game. if you do this right, you'll be rich and make alot of people VERY happy. you'll be a hero, believe me.

2. start with the very first moment of the game.

-any music for game intro -> next ->
-credits page(s) -> next ->
-any change to game music -> next ->
-title page -> next ->
-any change to game music -> next ->
-introduction -> next ->
-any change to game music -> next ->
-how to play -> next ->

you get the idea. baby steps.

3. create the character classes and stats. -> next ->

- and create a character creation room, where the player chooses the class, gender and appearance of their character, so the creator can offer players options on their character's appearance/race/gender and so on. allow the creator to assign textures, dimensions, sound and fx to the room, and textures for appearance changes to the player character model if they wish. break it up into steps with easy options to add their textures and so forth, to their game.

-make this character creation room optional and provide a couple simpler character creation options for those who don't want multiple class options and/or who don't want options for appearance of the player character.

-guide this process carefully and as simply as you can, so they get accustomed to the interface and have a first successful attempt. this will make a really good impression and you'll get word of mouth advertising.

-make this feature usable by the creator right away, so they can create their own player character (pc) when the first zone is done (step 7). include name box, name length, and a random name generator function. -> next ->

4. create the character gui. make this very flexible so it can be unique to the creator. drag and drop buttons are ideal but a default action bar is necessary. offer an easy way to change the appearance of the default action bar.-> next ->

5. create the save and load functions and design the buttons for them. next ->

6. instructions on how to add models/items to the game, using the point and click interface. this should be easily accessible for later additions-> next ->

7. make the first zone. just the zone creation but no fx, no quests, no sound, no npcs, no pcs, just the textures, landscape, skybox, items and structures that will go in the zone, such as building models. landscape first, then skybox, then structures, then items -> next ->

-all models should be click and draggable and should automatically stand on the surface they are placed on (collison-based).if they need to be raised or lowered, offer that as click and drag option, with a different button to start it. the turning interface should be a separate button also, so the creator can elect to use it for turning models. the rotating interface should also be separate, unless the creator elects to use it for flipping a model or raising one end higher than another, etc.

-make these 3 different approaches to placement so the creator is not confused by the interface. the standard should always be that it lands on the first collisonable surface it encounters when it is dropped by the creator.

-hide as many of the game design functions as possible by making everything as click and drag as you can. -> next ->


8. create the rest of zones in the game but no fx, no quests, no sound, no npcs, no pcs. just the textures, landscapes, skybox, items and structures that will go in the zone, such as building models. landscape first, then skybox, then structures, then items -> next ->

-all models should be click and draggable and should automatically stand on the surface they are placed/dropped on (collison-based).if they need to be raised or lowered, offer that as click and drag option, with a different button to start it. the turning interface should be a separate button also, in the event the creator elects to use it for turning models. the rotating interface should also be separate, in case the creator elects to use it for flipping a model or raising one end higher than another, etc.

make these 3 different approaches to placement so the creator is not confused by the interface. the standard should always be that it lands on the first collisonable surface it encounters. the rest should be separate functions for placement. might take longer, but less confusing. remember, you're not designing game making software for actual programmers/scripters.

hide as many of the game design functions as possible by making everything as click and drag as you can. -> next ->


9. create the maps (2 types, mini map for local area and large map of whole game world) for the now created game world. provide an easy to use interface for the creator to add any map graphics they have created. -> next ->

10. vehicles/mounts, if any, how to add them to game, how to assign to character, how to make them move, pathing options. etc-> next ->

11. personal pets, if any, how to add them to game, how to assign to character, how to make them move, pathing options. etc-> next ->

12. by now the game creator should have an entire game of zones with the character creation room, character name, character gui, 2 maps, landscapes, skyboxes, items, buildings and pets, mounts/vehicles, and a playable character (personally modified in the game character creation room).-> next ->

13. go back to the first zone, and add the npcs. repeat this with every zone. this includes interactive npcs, npcs that are non-aggressive and npcs that are aggressive.

-when adding npcs to the game, they should be click and draggable and should automatically stand on the surface they are placed/dropped on (collison-based).if they need to be raised or lowered, offer that as click and drag option, with a different button to start it. the turning interface should be separate, unless the creator elects to use it for turning models. the rotating interface should also be separate, in case the creator elects to use it for flipping a model or raising one end higher than another, etc.

-make these 3 different approaches to placement so the creator is not confuse

I guess what you're asking for is a set of paints that easily paint great pictures.

I spent years learning the Unreal Editor and in the end even found that a bit restrictive. There's no shortcut to making games because its a difficult creative and technical process. Making idiot proof game creation software is a huge task.

-make these 3 different approaches to placement so the creator is not confused by the interface. the standard should always be that it lands on the first collisonable surface it encounters. the rest should be separate functions for placement.

-hide as many of the game design functions as possible by making everything as click and drag as you can. -> next ->

-no combat system yet.

-provide point and click pathing interface in this section. -> next ->

- this should also include an interface that allows the creator to assign functions to each npc, as it is placed in the game world. for example, is this character a quest giver, a storekeeper, a whatever, standing, walking, running, riding, flying, crawling, etc.-> next ->

-the npc guis (for shops, inns, quest giving,etc)-> next ->

14. go back to first zone and add the starting quest chains and continue this until the entire questing system is in the game, through out the various zones in which quests may be found. assign quest rewards and load any chests/etc with rewards.-> next ->

15. go back to the first zone and add the sound fx, and continue this whereever sound fx need to be added through the various zones. this includes music. -> next ->

16. go back to the first zone and add visual fx related to the environment, such as different colored lights, fog, mist, rain, snow, etc. and continue this whereever fx need to be added through the various zones.

-do not add programmer lingo to the buttons on this interface. it should say things like more fog, less fog, or thicker fog, thinner fog, with simple sliders for more or less. also, do not add all the fx and their options to one interface. you should have single drop down type menu with fx types, that spawns the correct interface for the selected type. -> next ->

17. create the combat system, connect it to the character, npcs and gui. -> next ->

18. end game, credits.-> next ->

19. in the event the game maker wants to add more features, then or later, provide a few example add-ons, such as converting to other formats in one click, increasing the length of the game, how to make it multiplayer and/or how to convert it to a mmo, including server set-up*. -> next ->


20. template for the creation of an online game store.

21. have each step clearly labelled and accessible so the creator can add/change items, quests and so on, at any point. be available to answer questions every day.

22. get rich.

*create and sell the multiplayer and mmo converters, to game creators who used your 3d rpg creating software and are interested in expanding their 3d rpg. design the 3d rpg software in such a way where mmo or multiplayer conversion is just a few clicks different in design. in effect, make it capable of designing mmos or multiplayer except for a few missing ingredients, and then sell those missing ingredients as add-ons to the 3d rpg creating software.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
I guess what you're asking for is a set of paints that easily paint great pictures.

I spent years learning the Unreal Editor and in the end even found that a bit restrictive. There's no shortcut to making games because its a difficult creative and technical process. Making idiot proof game creation software is a huge task.

i'm not an idiot. my skill set is just not in programming and it never will be. this does not mean my head is vacant or useless. i was on the dean's list and president's list in college and was invited to many first tier universities, but couldn't pass simple algebra (i have a mental block in the math dept. but i guarantee you, i'm at least smart enough to realize when i'm being ripped off)

what an insult

to me it seems like false advertising to sell people game making software on the premise that non-programmers can make games with it easily, and then find it's mostly programming, anyway. then there's the scripting that you have to understand to make the programming function, which inevitably ends with you trying to learn the scripting and programming, which results in you having wasted your money if you are not a programmer or scripter.

they are hooking artists, modellers and musicians into buying their game making software on the premise it's easy for non-programmers to use, many of which will never be able to make a game with it because it's not their skill set.

the artistic or imaginative are not idiots. prove they are and i'll give up my interest in imaginative artists, as that would be a waste of my intellectual effort.

If the programming side of game design isnt your thing, you can always pitch your ideas to an existing company. Get into story creation, storyline design, scripting, that kind of stuff. I think what youre asking for is a 'drag and drop' type of game design software. That doesnt exist anywhere, too many variables are involved in game design, and yes it takes a team of people to do a game correctly, from storyline to modeling to programming to scripting to voice acting, etc etc. You get the picture.
If I am correct, you want software that allows one person with ZERO experience to design and produce a game as involved as games like Destiny, Call of Duty, etc.

Just because you can buy or own photoshop, that doesnt automatically make you a digital artist; you either need to have the ability to create digital art or learn it. The same goes with game design.

You can have the tools, but you NEED the talent.

a reply to: HomerinNC

well essentially, i'm not expecting it to do the sound or modelling or art, just the programming and scripting for the sound, modelling and art. there's a huge group of potential game makers, that can't get their ideas realized because they can't program it/script it. what i'm asking for is essentially the same thing as hiring a programmer/scripter for your team. the sound, music and modelling, would be the responsibility of the game creator, not the programmer. but those things can be purchased, already made, thus injecting the game making community with badly needed income.

to me, it seems like a win-win. the programmers make money, the modellers, artists and sound people make money. everybody wins. and if you have enough to pay your bills, you can donate to help charitable programs, and the thing just grows happy legs.