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Abraham's Error and Shame Today - Banishment and Treatment of Ishmael

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posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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This is a story with a point we miss. Abraham was not a good father or husband.


Genesis 16

16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.”


---When Sarai says that 'she' can build a family through Harag, she is being unfaithful to the Lord. The Lord had already promised her a son. As we read the story and the jealousy that arises between Sarai and Hagar, we the travel to this bit about Abraham I mention above.

Chapter 16

21 Yahweh came to help Sarah and did for her what he had promised. 2 So she became pregnant, and at the exact time Elohim had promised, she gave birth to a son for Abraham in his old age. 3 Abraham named his newborn son Isaac. 4 When Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him as Elohim had commanded. 5 Abraham was 100 years old when his son Isaac was born.


---At this point, Ishmael was 14 years old. Not quite a man and not quite a child, but a tender age to be abandoned by a father. Shortly after witnessing the birth of Sarah's son, Ishmael meets his brother, then finds his stepmother's attitude toward him.

6 Sarah said, “Elohim has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me. 7 Who would have predicted to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? Yet, I have given him a son in his old age.”

8 The child grew and was weaned. On the day Isaac was weaned, Abraham held a big feast. 9 Sarah saw that Abraham’s son by Hagar the Egyptian was laughing at Isaac. 10 She said to Abraham, “Get rid of this slave and her son, because this slave’s son must never share the inheritance with my son Isaac.” 11 Abraham was upset by this because of his son Ishmael. 12 But Elohim said to Abraham, “Don’t be upset about the boy and your slave. Listen to what Sarah says because through Isaac your descendants will carry on your name. 13 Besides, I will make the slave’s son into a nation also, because he is your child.”


---Consider how rich Abraham had become at this point. After two episodes with giving his wife away to a King, Abraham had gleaned a great deal of wealth by naming his wife his sister. If you will recall, twice Abraham had given his wife away to a ruler as his sister for fear of her beauty. He did this to protect himself, but instead caused great problems for unsuspecting rulers. Yahweh was always there to punish the unsuspecting ruler. As we follow this sorted tale, we see the rich and gracious Abraham caring for his slave and his own son. See what happens next...

14 Early the next morning Abraham took bread and a container of water and gave them to Hagar, putting them on her shoulder. He also gave her the boy and sent her on her way. So she left and wandered around in the desert near Beersheba. 15 When the water in the container was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went about as far away as an arrow can be shot and sat down. She said to herself, “I don’t want to watch the boy die.” So she sat down and sobbed loudly.

---Bread and a container of water. That's it for his own son headed into a wilderness. What do you suspect Abraham's intent was for his son and slave headed into a desert? She knew they were headed to a fast death in the desert heat. What happens next?

17 Elohim heard the boy crying, and the Messenger of Elohim called to Hagar from heaven. “What’s the matter, Hagar?” he asked her. “Don’t be afraid! Elohim has heard the boy crying from the bushes. 18 Come on, help the boy up! Take him by the hand, because I’m going to make him into a great nation.”

19 Elohim opened her eyes. Then she saw a well. She filled the container with water and gave the boy a drink.

20 Elohim was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became a skilled archer. 21 He lived in the desert of Paran, and his mother got him a wife from Egypt.


Hagar was an Egyptian (black race). Abraham was Chaldean (also black race). This makes Ishmael part Egyptian and part Chaldean. I mention that each race is of dark completion only for the interest of knowing why the Father of Yahweh promised the rainbow as his own promise. Unless you use the Names of God Bible, you will not realize that Yahweh had a promise to Noah in addition to that of Elohim's rainbow.


Yahweh's promise from Genesis 8

20 Noah built an altar to Yahweh. On it he made a burnt offering of each type of clean[a] animal and clean bird. 21 Yahweh smelled the soothing aroma. Yahweh said to himself, “I will never again curse the ground because of humans, even though from birth their hearts are set on nothing but evil. I will never again kill every living creature as I have just done.

22 As long as the earth exists,
planting and harvesting,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never stop.”


---He promises to not curse the ground, but that humans hearts were set on evil. He blesses the Earth. At the end of the day, we find a bloody battle field left behind by his actions. Until we reach the end of the Old Testament in Malachi, we find Yahweh at war with evil humanity. His promise should have been for mankind. What do we say for Elohim (Father)?

---Contrast this to the next chapter and Elohim's promise.

9 Elohim blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fertile, increase in number, and fill the earth. 2 All the wild animals and all the birds will fear you and be terrified of you. Every creature that crawls on the ground and all the fish in the sea have been put under your control. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be your food. I gave you green plants as food; I now give you everything else.

4 “But you are not to eat meat with blood in it. (Blood is life.) 5 In addition, I will demand your blood for your life. I will demand it from any animal or from any person. I will demand the life of any person who kills another person.

6 Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans his blood will be shed,
because in his image, Elohim made humans.

7 Be fertile, and increase in number. Spread over the earth, and increase.”


---No mention condemning mankind. The rainbow is marked by the very last verse.

8 Elohim also said to Noah and his sons, 9 “I am going to make my promise[a] to you, your descendants, 10 and every living being that is with you—birds, domestic animals, and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ship—every living thing on earth. 11 I am making my promise to you. Never again will all life be killed by floodwaters. Never again will there be a flood that destroys the earth.”

12 Elohim said, “This is the sign of the promise I am giving to you and every living being that is with you for generations to come.


Note the last verse. EVERY LIVING BEING! Not simply Israel. Abraham was deceived by Yahweh. Elohim's intent was to love all his children. In this, Abraham missed the point of loving his son Ishmael.

Today, Israel pays the price for this fault. They are the thorn in the side of Israel. Until they love their brother, they will suffer the seed sitting on the thistle. Little do they know that their Father is not Yahweh, but Elohim. There is a difference between the Son and the Father. Clearly, we can read this easily from the Names of God Bible.

The Reason for the Blood of the Cross is Elohim's Promise to Yahweh. Blood will be accounted.
edit on 26-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet

Generational curses, you know I hate them, reason #1342 why I don't ever want to reproduce. ;p



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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In chapter 17 Angel tell that Sarai will have a son, there were several years between Ishmael and Isaac. Abraham is 99 years old and Sarai 90. Many years after firstborn Ishmael as Sarai though she was not able.

Whatever was Abrahams decision God seemed to accept it. Question has been who inherits the promised land. Ishmael which was a son of slave or Isaac which was son of wife.

If prince Charles would have a bastard son who is older than his other sons, to whom the crown belongs to..
edit on 26-10-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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Just like clock work a willing spirit was found to give the blood needed to continue on in this life of sin. Truth is that inside abraham pleaded with his self and someone was listing to him and the voice he heard. Again and again the lamb is slaughtered and no one sees.



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 04:34 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
In chapter 17 Angel tell that Sarai will have a son, there were several years between Ishmael and Isaac. Abraham is 99 years old and Sarai 90. Many years after firstborn Ishmael as Sarai though she was not able.

Whatever was Abrahams decision God seemed to accept it. Question has been who inherits the promised land. Ishmael which was a son of slave or Isaac which was son of wife.

If prince Charles would have a bastard son who is older than his other sons, to whom the crown belongs to..


Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86. He was 100 with Issac. That makes Ishmael 14 when sent to the desert. Old is relative. Abraham married again and had lots of other children, then died at 175. Yahweh told them exactly when they would have Issac, yet in the middle of the waiting period, they engaged their own plan. Today, the nation of Ishmael is the thorn in their side. They must deal with this to know who their Messiah is. Joseph refused to tell the brothers until they brought in the last brother.



posted on Oct, 26 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: dollukka

In chapter 17 Angel tell that Sarai will have a son, there were several years between Ishmael and Isaac. Abraham is 99 years old and Sarai 90. Many years after firstborn Ishmael as Sarai though she was not able.



Whatever was Abrahams decision God seemed to accept it. Question has been who inherits the promised land. Ishmael which was a son of slave or Isaac which was son of wife.



If prince Charles would have a bastard son who is older than his other sons, to whom the crown belongs to..




Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86. He was 100 with Issac. That makes Ishmael 14 when sent to the desert. Old is relative. Abraham married again and had lots of other children, then died at 175. Yahweh told them exactly when they would have Issac, yet in the middle of the waiting period, they engaged their own plan. Today, the nation of Ishmael is the thorn in their side. They must deal with this to know who their Messiah is. Joseph refused to tell the brothers until they brought in the last brother.



What was their own plan? What did Joseph refuse to tell his brothers other than who he was?



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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This story is the #1 reason that Muslims (descended from Ishmael) absolutely despise Jews and by extension Christians who came out of the Jewish tradition and religion.

They were taught from birth the hatred because of what happened in this story, which was passed from generation to generation. Ending up in a very strong genetic memory and genetic hatred of Jews/Christians.

Father Abraham did something so evil and despicable that it has caused murder, hatred, and wars for time immemorial.



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick



What was their own plan? What did Joseph refuse to tell his brothers other than who he was?


Read the words of Sarai to Abraham concerning Hagar as a womb for the promise. Her plan was to use the slave. She was not following the will of Yahweh. Either way, I am not sure Yahweh knew the true purpose of the seed that would follow to him on a cross. Elohim had a plan that included humbling his Son. Abraham simply followed his wife, which is the same mistake Adam made.

It's a parallel story. In the end, they will pay the price for choosing their own will. Israel is paying it now with the Palestinians, who are indeed their only means of salvation. They must make peace with the brother. Love your enemies. Abraham's poor choice ends up working for the good of everyone in the end.

Jesus will not reveal himself to Israel until they bring the last brother in. Ishmael is a brother and the 24 elders are two sets of 12 tribes. Ishmael had 12 tribes as well. Little know fact form Genesis. No one pays attention to Ishmael, but they should. Salvation will come by seeking the donkey outside the walls of the village. It's in the Lexicon if they would only look. God's not going to be found among the kings. He will be with those persecuted.








edit on 27-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2014 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw
This story is the #1 reason that Muslims (descended from Ishmael) absolutely despise Jews and by extension Christians who came out of the Jewish tradition and religion.

They were taught from birth the hatred because of what happened in this story, which was passed from generation to generation. Ending up in a very strong genetic memory and genetic hatred of Jews/Christians.

Father Abraham did something so evil and despicable that it has caused murder, hatred, and wars for time immemorial.



Still to this day, Abraham / Israel must love Hagar just as much as Sarah. He needs to amend for what he did by giving to the Palestinians. Most of them are from the other 12 tribes. They are locked out with a wall. Instead, they should have been loved and cared for. Should they love their enemies? Are they clearly enemies? Yes to both.

Jesus was right. Thank you for noticing so that I could finish this thread and answer my first statement at the head of the OP.




edit on 27-10-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)




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