Should We Let Young Jihadist's Off Being Prosecuted?

On Radio 1 today the announcer said that the mother of a young male Jihadist who has returned to the UK and not been prosecuted, should be given help to deradicalise him. Oh yes, and perhaps the most important thing about his story is Oh Dear! he got hurt by a bomb exploding.

Now wasn't it to hurt other people that he went out there in the first place. Too bad after he has been hurt himself that he wimps home and Oooh wants deradicalising and presumably free medical care and benefits whilst the little darling recovers.

Why the hell is this boy/man not being prosecutied - has my government gone utterly mad? This is not someone to be kind to. This is someone who needs to be put in jail as an example of what happens if you become a jihadist and go abroad to get your paws on guns and kill, maim and rape. His whole family should be being deported in my opinion to where he went and then that's rid of a tiny group of would-be terrorists. His family should have paid more attention to his radicalism and dealt with it straight away. You tell these poison pushers you will report them to the authorities. They want help too late and to suit themselves - he could still be a threat to the public for all we know. I don't know the level of his injuries but how do we know he wasn't trying to launch a bomb into a house with a family in it?

Sorry not an atom of sympathy and that mother has a damn cheek thinking resources that need to go to people who readily deserve them shoujld be diverted to stop her sweet son having evil thoughts and desires. Radicalisation is poison to freedom and common sense should have told him so.

a reply to: Shiloh7

An extra to this is that he was a convert to Islam so the bit about the family being deported obviously doesn't apply. However he was questioned bny Mi5 and the Met and nothing has been done to him. I cannot understand it and why tell the public these people will be prosecuted for treason etc and let this one off. He had been there for four months getting up to God knows what? Why should he walk free?

We don't reward this kind of behaviour or is it open season for killing, destruction of property and rape? This makes me so mad.

Nope....

If you have committed a crime you should be held responsible and feel the full force of the law!

Korg.

a reply to: Shiloh7

So, the bad guys prey on young impressionable males to go fight for their cause = bad, naughty Jihadis and they should be prosecuted and jailed.

The government preys on young impressionable males (and now females) to go fight for their causes = good patriotic little drones. Bung them a medal and call them heroes and wheel them out to inspire the next bunch of cannon fodder!

Seems their is propaganda and brainwashing on both sides, always led by old guys well away from the fighting, pushing young guys to go fight and die for the cause, whatever that cause may be dressed up as.

a reply to: Shiloh7

So you believe that a transgressor's family should be punished?

As they cannot be deported in this case would you imprison his family?

Just parents? Siblings? Cousins?

And what has this returning person done personally, that is specifically against the law in The UK?

Its a tough subject, on the one hand terrorists should be punished but on the other getting this guy back and away from the extremists has taken a terrorist off our streets. I would imagine the reason he has gotten off so lightly is so that others may be follow his lead and return back to us without fear of a lengthy prison sentence, many over there would not come back for that very reason.

a reply to: skalla
No the guy who left for a religious war forfeited his citizenship. He now only has his new caliphate as his nation of choice. Know why there are no radical Muslims in star trek? Because its set in the future. Hint : this crap will only end when they're finally all in the one place. The borders of the caliphate will get smaller and smaller until the last few are hiding in a cave. Then the entrance will be bricked up. This kid should be with them.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity
Nope....

If you have committed a crime you should be held responsible and feel the full force of the law!

Korg.

Great minds think alike. I have no more to add.

a reply to: arrakis624

But what specifically has he done that violates UK Law?

Your belief that he has relinquished his citizenship is your own personal and moral view and sadly has no bearing on law - we can rightly hate IS until we are blue in the face but we're very much mistaken if we think personal outrage will jail or exile someone.

If we believe in the rule of law then Parliament need to pull their finger out and they may well need some help with that.

Thing is though, once the red mist clears we'll have to recognise sooner or later that some people went because they were hoodwinked and then found them selves in the creek in the wrong continent.

So now we have a bunch of people who were in the ME with IS, saw just how bad it was first hand and realised the horrible depth of their stupidity and how misled they had been. They are desperate to come back - they would most likely do anything.
And we are going to pass that opportunity up? We could use these people...... aren't western governments searching for ways to stop the radicalisation of young Muslims?

a reply to: Shiloh7

Execute him.

After all he was doing that to civilians over there.

originally posted by: Emerald53
a reply to: Shiloh7

Execute him.

After all he was doing that to civilians over there.

If there is evidence that he has committed a war crime then try the f###er.

Is there any?

Summary executions with out any trial or legal process though are the actions of a totalitarian state. Screw that

a reply to: Britguy

The moral point of view doesn't take into account whether this young man is savfe to be on our streets. He upped and left here for Syria joined a group alligned to ISIS - so is he safe or would he try to behead you on a bad day?

That is how I look at it. Also it doesn't seem right to not prosecute a young convert in favour of prosecuting natural born muslims - they all follow the same set of warped ideology.

a reply to: skalla

Just going to fight shows intent which is all the law requires for terrorism today - so he has committed a crime.

The government is looking at treason as the law to prosecute these people amongst the normal terrorism laws.

But its a deeper issue for me in that these jihadists do the most atrocious acts that take civilisation back to the dark ages. I don't think that taking us backwards into barbaric acts which they clearly revel in is conducive to our society's values. Surely we cannot have young people from the West indulging in this kind of crime for which thney would be prosecuted in their home country.

Were I his family I would be looking for those responsible and bringing them to justice also. I would keep turning up until I got answers. Someone somewhere knows whose responsible for radicalising her son .

a reply to: skalla

Sorry I forgot to say I doubt any of these young people would admit to what they got up to - would you in their shoes if you wanted back into the UK? I expect they will all claim to be cooks and medics.

a reply to: arrakis624

I do think this is the way to go because unless we have a serious deterrant this will continue and continue and we will be paying a lot of money keeping these jerks in jail, supporting their families on benefits and on and on, whilst the radicalisers are spewing their poison onto our streets.

It went too far with Lee Rigby and unless it is met with real force by allowing this young man back, without as his mother says any form of deradicalisation programming, we still have a terrorist on our street - OK with a poor bad back and trauma. Is he likely to suddenly erupt into ISIS like behaviour - I don 't see our police and MI5 protecting us from him?

compare this fiasco to this topic (amazing leaf art)

when life gave that guy lemons, he made lemonade..

he could 'teach' other young people how to do that (especially those from his own culture)
(gah, not teaching them how to carve leaves.. just teaching them how to cope with things)

has my government gone utterly mad?

most assuredly yes
..because why isn't gov.org 'facilitating' troubled mid-eastern youths to this leaf-art guy already?

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: skalla

Just going to fight shows intent which is all the law requires for terrorism today - so he has committed a crime.

The government is looking at treason as the law to prosecute these people amongst the normal terrorism laws.

I dont know the terrorism laws well at all, and in a brief bit of netting i couldn't clarify it, but are you sure that he has broken UK law by fighting abroad?

If he has then it's a simple matter to have him arrested and i'm surprised the police have not charged him after talking to him - obviously they have their reasons but i'd only be speculating.

If the government is looking to charge with treason, i'm really puzzled - why would tyhey need to if fighting for IS abroad is already illegal under anti-terror legislation? This makes me suspect that the wording of anti-terror legislation is just shoddy and means that it is not fit for purpose - or simply does not apply in the way that you believe it does.

But until someone does something against this country in a state of War, how the heck can they be charged with treason?

IS have not attacked the UK for this person to be tried with treason, however repugnant they are.

Perhaps we need to ammend/use war crime legislation? Does this even exist in UK law though?

But its a deeper issue for me in that these jihadists do the most atrocious acts that take civilisation back to the dark ages. I don't think that taking us backwards into barbaric acts which they clearly revel in is conducive to our society's values. Surely we cannot have young people from the West indulging in this kind of crime for which thney would be prosecuted in their home country.

Agreed, but we have to know what the person did rather than making assumptions. In the radio interview, what did they say he took part in?

Were I his family I would be looking for those responsible and bringing them to justice also. I would keep turning up until I got answers. Someone somewhere knows whose responsible for radicalising her son .

The someone somewhere who knows who radicalised her son (and how) is her son.

In the OP you were all for having them deported until you said (realised/remembered?) they were natives. I'm not attacking you but obviously the radio segment got you annoyed and you vented, that's understandable

It seems clear to me that we could use him, tell his story, make him M15's little gimp, whatever.

He may have a positive effect. Not as positive as stopping our effing around in the ME, but still.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: skalla

Sorry I forgot to say I doubt any of these young people would admit to what they got up to - would you in their shoes if you wanted back into the UK? I expect they will all claim to be cooks and medics.

I'd have thought a true believer would want to stay, unless they are some kind of sleeper/infiltrator etc. Interrogate the living bejayzus out of them. I would have thought it obvious that we would view having folk from ME IS zones/brigades etc who our intelligence folk could devour as a good thing?

Considering how much we spend on warplanes, bombs and so forth, a bit of interrogation and surveillance seems a reasonable investment.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Britguy

That is how I look at it. Also it doesn't seem right to not prosecute a young convert in favour of prosecuting natural born muslims - they all follow the same set of warped ideology.

Warped ideology of Islam, or convert/natural born Islamic extremists?

There is a very big difference.

This is part of the problem while discussing the issues of our day. The wording and intent. Often I'll read threads such as this one and come away with more questions than answers. Are those who say 'Islam' or being Muslims is the problem or is it the extremists of that faith?

Because, it is also very common for an opposing view to come right in and lay blanket statements on either side about not all Muslims are extremists then the other will counter with but they are 'Islamic' extremists. The water gets muddied and the issue get's lost in a back and forth banter, accusations, insinuations, and outright sidestepping. Which then leaves us with nothing more than a deteriorated mess.

Taking these people back?

Well that all depends.

Was his activities a direct or even indirect threat to his Country's interests? Or was he just out there fighting whomever was in front of him while on his 'Jihad'? Speaking of his Islamic mission which is outlined in the Quran *Whether those Muslims of an opposing view agree with it or not* completed? Will he continue with his self chosen activities but on another perceived chosen field of battle?

It's a conundrum to be sure.

a reply to: skalla

The treason charge is because these people are acting against British interests abroad apparently and also against britist people in the kidnapping and beheading etc.

I see red when I look at the people displaced from Syria looking forward to winter under canvas with little children and their homes destroyed by a band of rabid teenages and bigots.

I do however still thing that Muslims who come here if they don't accept our laws or they go abroad into an army that commits dreadful atrocities should be deported, because they ultimately will support their relative, rather than be loyal to the couintry they live in.

I also don't expect them to be any different because I do think our country gets up to some terrible dirty tricks and has a bad record for fairness in the ME. I take the stance I do, not on the moral side, because our government lost us that right but to protect the public and innocent people who have no part and probably don't approve of our foreign policy.

I would point out that Imam chandri one of the worst of the poison pushers believes that anyone who voted for our government (and the USA's) will be beheaded once the muslim state extends to our countries, so serious deterrants are needed against this imported fervour. I do think our country is safer if people like him and his family are deported. It isn't until you hear this man speak and the fact he believes every word he says plus has got himself into the position of a lawyer you suddenly realise the gathering strength of the Islamic desire for domination through fear on a slowly, softly jihad.