Government to Ordained Ministers: Celebrate Same-Sex Wedding or Go to Jail

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: macman

Now, since most here are of the idea that a business can't discriminate against religion, race, creed or sexuality, I am sure that this will be accepted by all.

Sorry but the Hobby Lobby ruling let's business's discriminate against women by allowing them to pick and choose what kind of birth control their female employees can use.

That's not discrimination.

That is about the weakest attempt for an arguing point I have read from you to date.

a reply to: SomePeople

The Constitution is the Constitution; unlike most who claim to support it, I can't pick and choose what it says.

The Founders stuck in freedom of religion alongside all our other freedoms; it can't and probably shouldn't be cut out.

I have personal issues with the irrationality of religion, but as far as the American freedom of religion goes, I have none.

I think these folks the Knapps are, at best, yokels being taken for a long ugly ride by some slick city lawyers, but at worst, and this is more what I think, they're the very cagey homespun types that realize that this uproar put them on the map, regardless of the outcome.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Leahn

Counter example:

Someone works in a drug store and has a strong personal belief about birth control.

A customer comes in to buy birth control; does the employee tell the customer that the store won't sell birth control, or do they go get someone to sell it that doesn't have a moral restriction.

The latter is the obvious legal answer.

That's a more realistic way to deal with "strong personal convictions."

It would be, but that's not what is happening here. What's happening here is that the customer is demanding the right to be served by that person specifically, and if that person refuses, he can be fined or go to jail.

Almost Everything You've Been Told About The Idaho Wedding Chapel Story Is A Lie

www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...

a reply to: Leahn

I beg to differ with you. If anyone actually did go in (which seems questionable at this point) and try to buy a wedding package, they're not demanding that Donald or Evelyn perform the wedding, merely that the business does. Actually, depending on the version of the story you read, some folks tried to go in, were rejected, and took their business somewhere else.

But, back to the point: Don and Evie could hire it out to someone less judgmental than they are, or they could do what they've done and become a church. Churches can discriminate for free all day long.

That's just the fact.

originally posted by: Annee
Almost Everything You've Been Told About The Idaho Wedding Chapel Story Is A Lie

www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...

That's....interesting.

I'll wait to see what others have to say about this.

originally posted by: Annee
Almost Everything You've Been Told About The Idaho Wedding Chapel Story Is A Lie

www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...

Well for me there isn't any new info. They did however sum up everything we've been talking about right up to this point. Summed it up quite nicely to I might add.

This is really becoming interesting now though. I'm really interested in finding out who is saying what and why in this whole thing.

Hopefully they keep the info coming. I also can't wait to see if the ADF get's exposed for being part of this ongoing media sensation con game.

Nice find Annee!!

a reply to: mOjOm

You guys have done a great job finding out the truth of the matter. I've been so focused on the legalities that I keep forgetting there's not even a story here to argue about. The people behind the story are doing simply to whip up the Beezzers of America into a Progressive/Liberal/Left/Democrat hating frenzy... it worked too.

This is the most ridiculous bit of commie bull# I've ever heard.

a reply to: Kali74

Who's focused on hate?

I have stood on the side to defend religious freedoms even though that has been difficult with all the varied definitions and word games that so many have played.

On a personal level, I don't appreciate what they are doing, something you neglect (in your hateful tirade) to even mention, but I defend those even though I don't agree because it is the right thing to do.

You and the others have spent dozens of pages mocking christianity, religion, conservatives and playing word-garbage with definitions of "business".

You jump on the side of "it's okay now" when the tax code changes, but most of you would still be rattling on if that hadn't have happened.

Many of you have shown that you would support anything that took away freedom. Your irrational hatred for personal freedoms, religious freedoms and personal responsibilities have become quite apparent.

I find it sad that in all the time on ATS, you and others like you, will only stand up for those within your narrow ideology and rarely for what it right, regardless of your personal or ideological standing.

Has anyone said yet that legal or not, what this couple believe and is doing is just wrong and that if something negative comes of their behaviours and beliefs - they brought it on themselves as adults?

As much as I want to continue arguing for rationality and reason and logic - even though neither of this couple understands any of those terms and likely would actively rally against them - I can't help but think, "well, you brought this all on yourselves, so deal with it".

Right or wrong, legal or illegal - they are adults who have made choices which have brought them to where this is now.

I don't feel sorry for them, just as much as I don't think they should be forced to do what they disagree with.

originally posted by: GnosticWay
This is the most ridiculous bit of commie bull# I've ever heard.

Commies??? How are the commies involved with this???

I know I should just ignore this post all together, but WTF are you babbling about??? I'm willing to debate or discuss whatever crazy idea you might have, even if you throw in some commies. But you're going to have to at least explain what they hell you're talking about for that to happen. Otherwise it's like some crazy person throwing open your front door and just yelling some nonsense at nobody and leaving. What is anyone supposed to do with that???

a reply to: beezzer

It looks like ordained ministers Donald & Evelyn Knapp who run the “Hitching Post Wedding Chapel” have dodged the bullet.

The city is backing off -- it seems since the Knapps have filed the “Hitching Post” as a religious corporation.

“A federal lawsuit filed against the city of Coeur d'Alene late last week on behalf of the Hitching Post marriage chapel alleging the city would require the business to perform same-sex marriages requires clarification.

The anti-discrimination ordinance passed by the Coeur d'Alene City Council excludes religious corporations. The Hitching Post appears to fall under this category due to recent action filed by the business.

Several days before the Hitching Post filed the lawsuit against the city on Oct. 17, it filed with the Idaho Secretary of State as a religious corporation on Oct. 6. This may exempt the business from the city's anti-discrimination ordinance.”

www.cdapress.com...


Hurrah for the Knapps. I may not love their particular brand of Christianity, but I support their freedom & right to believe as they do.

a reply to: SomePeople

Right or wrong, they should have the freedom to do so, and the freedom to accept the responsibility of their actions.

a reply to: beezzer

Absolutely.

I honestly think this is just another storm in a teacup, another mountain out of a molehill.

I mentioned before that it boggles the mind why any gay couple would want to get married in an ugly little sht box like this place, so there's obviously something afoot other than outrage.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Kali74

Who's focused on hate?

You. Always.

I have stood on the side to defend religious freedoms even though that has been difficult with all the varied definitions and word games that so many have played.

No. You have refused to acknowledge the limits of Religious Freedom. All Freedoms have limits, grown-ups know this. You even know this yourself as you wouldn't accept a woman being stoned death for adultery simply because her Church is that fundamental.

And you have refused to see that anti-discrimination laws are Constitutional as is public accommodation.

On a personal level, I don't appreciate what they are doing, something you neglect (in your hateful tirade) to even mention, but I defend those even though I don't agree because it is the right thing to do.

Cool. Want a cookie? Your belief that it's wrong does the gay community a whole hell of a lot of... nothing. You have gone so far as to label those that disagree with you as against religious freedom. Too many of us see right through you now and you seem to be having a hard time dealing with that and so now accuse us of just being hateful and spiteful. You dished it out...

You and the others have spent dozens of pages mocking christianity, religion, conservatives and playing word-garbage with definitions of "business".

I have done no such thing and I haven't seen anyone else do it either.

You jump on the side of "it's okay now" when the tax code changes, but most of you would still be rattling on if that hadn't have happened.

That is how States set up their business laws, people ought to know which type of permits and licenses they need in order to run their businesses in the manner they wish, read my previous post on the 'tax code' non-issue. You do read all the relies in your own thread don't you? Of course you do, you're just going to ignore the fact that I stated, previously what it means to me, in order to rely on others laziness at not having read all the replies in a thread in which they post... to make those that disagree with you look petty and anti-Constitutional. Cheap.

Many of you have shown that you would support anything that took away freedom. Your irrational hatred for personal freedoms, religious freedoms and personal responsibilities have become quite apparent.

I find it sad that in all the time on ATS, you and others like you, will only stand up for those within your narrow ideology and rarely for what it right, regardless of your personal or ideological standing.

Blah blah blah... here, have a tissue. Now, you really should preserve what fraction of integrity that you have left and STOP putting words in others mouths.

a reply to: SomePeople

Honestly, a couple hours ago I thought this whole topic had been put to rest. Information came in saying that they had filed for their business to be Non-Profit status and they were off the hook. At that point I think most of us were like, "well, ok. That's the end of this one."

But now it's gone in a totally different direction. It's now a mystery of how and who is behind this whole Facade.

Now the Knapps claim to not be Non-Profit which is counter to what the city has said. They supposedly have something that the Knapps submitted to change their Business over to be a Religious Organization. So who's wrong, I haven't got a clue.

Also, the ADF that is allegedly Representing the Knapps and have filed a complaint and allegedly been working with Knapps in fighting this might possibly be doing all this without the Knapps approval or even meeting them according to another statement by Knapp. I'm not even sure how that's possible if that's true.

Someone with connections, most likely the ADF or another Sister Foundation, has been playing some kind of Media Mind Game with the public. They are the only ones I can figure that could possibly pull off such a thing. I doubt the Knapps have those kinds of resources on their own.

I am really just waiting to see what happens next. Big change from a story that I thought was over just a few hours back.

a reply to: Tangerine
We were forced to say this every morning in school
when I was a kid:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States of
America and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all.

Rebel 5

originally posted by: rebelv
a reply to: Tangerine
We were forced to say this every morning in school
when I was a kid:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States of
America and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all.

Rebel 5


Yes, but what point are you making by recalling that?

Thank you for posting the link. Yep, this is the "Christians are being persecuted" story that fills the slot between Labor Day and Thanksgiving after which the phony "War on Christmas" story will be dredged up again.