'Jesus NEVER existed': Writer finds no mention of Christ in 126 historical texts and says he was a

a reply to: windword

Dude...sigh.

I'm attacking the nonsense you are claiming is legit history.

I am also pointing out that you keep bringing up "magical Jesus" over and over and over (annoyed a bit there).

Magical Jesus does not exist in "Mainstream History".

At all.

But here you are focusing on such a silly thing over and over while ignoring proper academic history and the almost unanimous conclusion it has come to with decades of research and peer reviewed publications...

And for what? A hate for Christ that you already admitted spawned from a childhood that was filled with forced Christ worship, and a handful of non-historian-quacks that Historians laugh at.

I find it odd.

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

Sigh,

You can't pretend that the magical Jesus isn't part of the narrative that makes him Jesus Christ. You can't debunk the mythicist without addressing the myth. After all, the Bible is filled with mythology. I have said all along that you can't separate the mythical, magical Jesus from Jesus Christ. It's the magic that makes him "Christ", don't ya see?

Do you have any sources that prove that Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus the son of Joseph was a real person, outside of Bible? Nope, they all refer to some "Christ", of which we know there was no shortage.

The only thing you've brought to the party are gratuitous insults, personal projections, feigned righteous indignation and rhetoric, all the while repeatedly appealing to authority.

You can disagree with me all you want, but you need to do more to debunk my sources than to insult me and sourced authors. You need to address the content of my argument. Don't want to? That's fine.

Hugs to you too.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Mr Mask

Sigh,

You can't pretend that the magical Jesus isn't part of the narrative that makes him Jesus Christ. You can't debunk the mythicist without addressing the myth.

Yes...yes you can.

In fact, if you are doing legitimate research on history. Magical Jesus has no reason to be discussed here. The claims of his magic performances and resurrection are to be automatically declared hogwash...or...accepted as legit magic.

History has no narrative on magic...other than to debunk it of course.

And let me point out again...you have dragged me (a history fan with no faith or belief in magic) kicking and screaming back to your obsession with a "magical Jesus" while I am attempting to debate the historic reality of a real man.

Its very hard to keep you focused on legitimate research and historic record. When you are shown why Mythism is laughed at by real historians...you ignore it and return to magic Jesus.

Dude...you talk more about magic Jesus than most theists. You SURE you don't think Jesus was real?

MM

a reply to: windword

So if the Christ, Jesus Christ never existed where did the name CHRISTian came from?

Why did the first cent contemporaries/enemies of Christians never questioned their name?

a reply to: edmc^2

Christ is a title that was incorporated in the Greek Septuagint. It was the Greek Translation for the Hebrew word "Messiah". King Saul, King David, King Solomon and Cyrus the Great were all bestowed with the title "Christ."

Understand, the Septuagint was ordered to be written by Ptolomy, in order to better unite the Greeks and Egyptians. Ptolomy also ordered the creation of Serapis, in order to unite Greek and Egyptian mythologies. The title "Christ" came to mean "good person" and was adopted by the initiates of the Elysian Mystery school, referring to one another as "Christs".

During the 1st century, there were many people claiming to be prophets, some Jewish and some Hellenistic Serapis supporters. Some claimed to be Jewish Messiah's, some were ambassadors of Serapis and others were spin off cults of the mystery schools.

Immediately after the Council of Nicea outlawed all pagan religions, some 600 (? I think) Serapis temples were trashed and taken over by Christians.

Early followers of Paul called themselves Nazarenes, or Followers of the Way.

Today we call ourselves by the Greek word Christian -- but have we ever questioned where the term originated? And what does it mean? The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge confirms that the name "originated outside of Christian and Jewish circles". The Mercer Dictionary of the Bible states that: "By the late first and early second centuries the name ‘Christian,’ which early believers avoided using of themselves, was beginning to be accepted".

If modern believers were truly sincere in their desire for a more intimate relationship with the Lord, they would immediately want to know and question why "early believers avoided" using the name Christian? When it is realized that even the very name Christian was in use prior to the time of Jesus, we truly begin to grasp the Pagan connection. The name Christian was a term employed to describe one who was an initiate, and understood the inner meaning of the Greek and Roman mystery religions. Thus, the early followers of Jesus refused to be called Christian, and call Jesus the Christ, because the word was used in reference to enlightened Pagans and their gods.
nazirene.org...

a reply to: Mr Mask

I don't think Jesus Christ is real. And he is character described in the Bible. You can't just pick and choose what belongs to the Jesus story and what doesn't. Even so, if you take away the magic, what do you have?

A zealot, with no father, preaching in wilderness who gets hung for his trouble. There were no shortage of people like that in those days. Does any one historical person match the character in the Bible called Jesus Christ? Nope.

Dude Jesus, existed...

Period..

There were no News papers 2000 years ago, and I am sure romans were not bragging about Jesus, they crucified him..

I am sure he was not being talked about...

Not to mention Jesus, from what I understand from the bible looking at it and judging it from a theological angle, he was humble..

It is no surprise their is no proof he existed, he was a jew a slave race for the romans.. LOL

No one wrote about them..

Yet all in all no one has any idea alive today if he really did exist actually 2000 years ago we did not exist we just believe what we are taught to believe and sometimes we need to think we are smart by questioning what we are taught to believe in any case their is no fact to Jesus, really existing..

I find it odd thou people would make up a story about a guy named Jesus, who existed to try teaching morality to a unmoral roman world..

Why would anyone want to do that?

Jesus, in Hebrew YHShWH, is just an extension of the Tetrgrammaton YHWH. What does the "Name" tells us. YH and WH are 2 fields of power, fire and water, what is male and female. This is the basic principle of duality. We see in the Hebrew letter Yud, a symbolic flame that burns, the letter Heh is a window in a hous, when we see the letter Wav, we see a stick with a Yud on top, thus an extension of the firs only, and the last letter Heh is once more a window in the house. The letter Shin, value 300, we put between them is the symbolic letter of fire. So, Male and Female unite by the sexual fire. Now, this Yeshuah principle is pure symbolism and Jesus is a triple fold symbol, he is in each part of the Bible a different symbol, in metaphysics or astrology, he is the preacher we all know, he teaches us human behavior, thus our characters we also find in the Zodiac of astrology.

In the second layer, he is walking through the Zodiac of astronomy and describes our nature and starry sky and here, he is the symbol of our Sun, our savior.

The third Zodiac is anatomy and procreation, our sexual life and reproduction and here he is Lucifer, the symbol of the bringer of light, the male penis. Now, to understand this, you have to stop reading the Bible literally, but start turning every symbolic metaphor, name, and single letter symbols into images, and here, know that descriptions do not correspond to reality bat are a secret slang proper to the priest of Kabbalah. The Bible is a wheel, 3 walks through the Zodiac at the 3 levels I mentioned. It are 3 x 22 spokes, thus 66 books, and they are ordered in an interlaced system, taking 22 letters of the Hebrew Alphabet and treating them at Positive, thus water, negative, thus fire, and neutral, thus air, level. The order is know by the enlightened to the system and they are few on this planet.

Now, in anatomy we find the major part of the Bible, the human body is a temple, the one of Solomon, Sol is the sun, OM is male power, and ON is female. The Temple is the world, the one we create in Genesis, this world has many Nations, and it has a Knesset where 3 Elders sit and manage it. At the top is our Holy ancient one, our hypothalamus, and the 2 elders which are our 2 brain halves. What connects it to the Nations is the beard of the Prophet and his silver hair, thus our spinal cord and the nerves. The bottom is the cradle of humanity, the mediterranean bassin, our pelvis, this has a holy bone, the os saccrum, the 9 vertebrae that are welded together as a triangle. Over that one are 24 thrones with 24 golden diadems, our 24 vetebrae and the cushions. The top is Atlas, he carries the world, our head with the parliament. In the pelvis sits in female body, our desert, the holy land, the uterus.

The story starts with 2 countries, upper and lower Egypt. Upper land is desert, only the Nile delta, lower land is fertile, grass and trees. The 2 countries have to unite to form a new dynasty. Now, we have here simple pictures of female and male humans, and when they unite, and when Moses breaks the door to the holy land, the Nile turns into a red sea, and all he needs to do is spread the water and leave the people of Israel go up in the Land, our sperm nation, Aryans, Christians, Brahmans, Muslims, Jews, or what ever they are called in mythologies. This nation has to go to the top of the holy land, the great arcanum, the arch of Noah, NH, Nun being the fallopian tubes and H the uterus, our window to life. So, Moses in OT, Jesus in NT is doing this job and leads the Nation. Here in the fallopian tubes, thy all will die, one succeeds and will enter the ovaries and die as the savior, the Christ.

Now to understand the principle, let us see the zodiac of procreation. GOD, in Hebrew GDH, is 345 in numbers, "the name" H Sh M, or haShem is also 345. HShM is the mirrored image of MShH, Mosheh, Moses, thus God and his mirrored image. H is window to life, Sh is fire, and M is water, in the Hebrew letter symbolism. We have thus here our principle of procreation once more. In the zodiac we have 3 signs, 5 signs and 4 signs, the latter are divided in 2+2. The 3 are male, the beginning is St Luke, Alpha Taurus, the bull, or male balls, in Aramaeic, AL DE BARAN. This is our holy cow where the adventure of new human birth starts, and it starts 7 days before woman gets fertile, after the period. Now, he is coupled to Aries, the Ram, the male penis. This tandem will do the Job in crucifixion, or crossbreed male and female. Once done, the penis will retract as Cancer, will hang himself on a nut tree over 2 nuts, becoming Judas, his departure point, the ugly hunchback that watches the bells of our lady. LEOnidas and the 300 told him that he has to stand his man in Sparta, that conquest of the city behind the holy stone.

Now, we enter female 5 signs, The entrance is Virgo, the vagina, here, all of us get implanted as seed and come out as mortal human, born from a Virgin, Virgo. Then we go up to the arch by St Mathew, Aquarius, the vaginal tract, and we end in Libra, the head of uterus, the great arch of Noah. The fallopian tubes are Scorpio, or St John, in Greek IANIS, in Hebrew SINAI, the mirrored word of IANIS. This tandem is the place where our nation will die, one will go through and end in the ovaries Pisces, the 2 fishes of Jesus.

The triggering force is Love, it is the Sagittarius as a cherub with bow and arrow, symbolizing the union Jesus and arch, in the Bible it is Rome, ROMA/AMOR, just a mirror once more. The opposed force is Capricorn, Capricioso Cornutto, the black horny goat, as a penis it is XerXes/SexRex the king of sex, black means in Latin Nero, he is the last emperor that will burn love in the sexual fire of decadence.

Now, the impulse giving are Gemini, male and female power, and Leo, San Marco, the lion of Zion. Zion is a spoken word for the letter Zain, the symbol of the sword or woman, mother blood and honor, ZAIN/NAZI, just anagrams of the zionist nationalist system.

Now, start the passion and lets go to Jericho, King Saul and 2 cohorts of soldiers are at the door of the city, same story as Titus in front of the second temple, 4 days they do nothing, then, 7 priest with 7 trumpets blow the horns, and on day 8 the door falls, Jesus gets circumcised, then, 10 days we plunder the city, and 7 days we share the prey. This description of female menstruation cycle, the 28 days of the moon cycle, is what you need to know, 4 days bleeding, 7 days building of the ovaries, 10 days (3 neutral and 7 fertile) sex, and then 7 days degeneration of the ovaries, maybe fertilized egg.

Day 1 crucifixion, thus sexual act, Jesus dies, the nation goes the way, all die, one succeeds and dies in the egg that he fertilizes, the Christ has become. Day 3 fertile egg is ejected, resurrection, the king is dead, long live the king. Day 9, the 2 cells split in 4, crucifixion of the Christ, the clover of luck is there. Day 13, we ave finished ascent to heaven, the egg docks on the arch of Noah. 33 days to go, the fetus is built, now we are on day 49, Pentecost. Here we leave Exodus and enter Genesis. The big flood takes place, ,our placenta, and in 6 days and 1 rest day, we build the 3d temple, the east temple, the first one waits, it's the father, the west temple, the second one, makes it possible, the mother, and the 3 temple, our child will succeed when the 2 temples fall. 33 + 3 weeks from Easter to X-Mas, 9 month, now you know, so go and multiply.

The problem the world has with the Bible is the fact that all think that it has any historical value. The Taurat and the Bible, as well as the Qu'ran, are simply books that describe the human body, his behavior, his spiritual connection to the matrix, his inner self, his anatomy and it is a blueprint of our selves and the user manual to it. Those books have a high scientific value and hide many secrets which are hidden to us and have to be dsicovered yet. The sole reason is that science is so proud and high nosed that none of them takes time to try to decode that ancient kabbalist slang in which those books are written and that is a work of genies, hiding in a single fairy tale all our secrets of existence. It was not written to serve for religion business,a nd if we have all the mess we live on this planet with that religions, it is due to the fact that priest took metaphors of the real world and imaginary ones to write the occult of ourselves. The second problem is that priest have created all places and even named persons after it, Rome, Jews, Jerusalem (means peace in the house), Nazareth (means small fishes), Jericho, and so on, just to make the scam credible. The reason is that themselves could not find any prove or evidence, so they simply created some and today we fight on places for relics where never nothing happened and no relics are real. if we assemble all the bones of the same Saints we find as relics in churches all over Europe, we can build Saints as big as Eiffel-towers or liberty Statues. The scriptures can be read by just a few people on this planet, they are called the Vaticanians, and this comes from Vatic Anus, the circle of the prophets and magicians. Magus of Kabbalah exist in reduced numbers, and what is stunning is the fact that they still keep the teaching secret, the reason being that no one who is religious brainwashed will accept the truth. Religion is defended with the dogma and all lies with weapons, hate, killings and destruction, and as long as we continue that way, the reason will never take it over on the evil. But, that is live. you see the mirror LIVE/EVIL. Ask the mirror, he knows the answer, Disney knew that too. He was a 32 Freemasons, and me, I am a Vaticanian teacher of Kabbalah. Now, is all I say truth or lie? Both do not exist anyway, you create them with your way of thinking, analyzing and judging. So, use you brain and be the judge of the last judgement yourself. And be the force with you, chose the one who fits you anyway.

originally posted by: eurocrates
The problem the world has with the Bible is the fact that all think that it has any historical value. The Taurat and the Bible, as well as the Qu'ran, are simply books that describe the human body, his behavior, his spiritual connection to the matrix, his inner self, his anatomy and it is a blueprint of our selves and the user manual to it.

Absolutely not. Pseudo-science quackery and made up stuff.

Its funny how someone can have so much to type on about- with nothing factual to say.

Everything you just said about the bible and other texts from antiquity...is...true to life nonsense.

And impossible.

I'm sorry.

MM

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Mr Mask

I don't think Jesus Christ is real. And he is character described in the Bible. You can't just pick and choose what belongs to the Jesus story and what doesn't. Even so, if you take away the magic, what do you have?

A zealot, with no father, preaching in wilderness who gets hung for his trouble. There were no shortage of people like that in those days. Does any one historical person match the character in the Bible called Jesus Christ? Nope.

Now lets look closely at what you did here...and have done since your first in this post this thread.

You just stated that Jesus is not real- but it don't matter if he is- cus even if he is he was a nobdy, loser, fatherless and ordinary...

Like I said, I want all readers to notice your reasoning for spreading "false pseudo-history that is NOT supported by academia".

Alls you want is Christ to be belittled, destroyed, removed of any and all respect and/or hated.

You don't care if he was a real man or not. You basically just threw your entire theory aside for a moment just to add "If I'm wrong Jesus still sucks as a person!!!" Like would I do that about the world being flat? Or evolution being wrong? Or about space lizards possessing the queen? God no.

Its been clear to me for some time in here that you don't care about history...you only care if people hate Jesus. And you are feeding open minds and moving eyes with stuff that has been destroyed academically for a very long time now. Even most educated atheists believe Jesus was a real man who walked the earth. It is more logical based on evidence. Hence why almost all (as in over 99%) of all educated scholars (atheists or not) don't doubt the legitimacy of his existence.

Sad really...Jesus was a good and unique guy if he existed. Far better than what you said above about him.

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

Like I said, I want all reads to notice you reasoning for spreading "false pseudo-history that is NOT supported by academia".

What false history! Be specific please!

Look Mask,

It's like Superman and Clark Kent, see. You really can't have one without the other.

Let's say that you don't believe in Superman, but you think that Clark Kent was probably a real person.

So, we look for all the Clark Kents in the phone book. Only one of them turns out to be a reporter, but he doesn't live in and has never been to Gotham City. He wasn't adopted and didn't fall from space in a special pod. His parents are not Martha and Jonathan, but Sid and Betty. He has no Superman alter ego and does't know anyone named Jimmy Olsen or Lois Lane.

But you insist that THIS CLARK KENT is proof that, at least Clark Kent was a real person, even though Superman never existed. I disagree. Got it?

Jesus Christ is a character that consists of attributes that includes a magical reputation.

Of course there were men named Jesus who lived during the 1st century, who were religious zealots and trouble makers. That fact doesn't prove Bible stories to be true. There is no proof, one way or the other, of the individual described as Jesus Christ, outside of the Bible. There's no record of Jesus of Nazareth and no mention of a Jesus Ben Joseph in contemporary writings.

Believing in Jesus Christ is a matter of faith, not fact.

originally posted by: windword

Look Mask,

It's like Superman and Clark Kent, see. You really can't have one without the other.

No...it is nothing like your analogy at all. In fact, if you think historians or any academic scholars in this world are taking anytime at all comparing Jesus to SuperMan to do "good historical research", then sir...you are living in a comic book's world view.

No...I would be hard at work to even come up with an analogy that was more ludicrous.

In short NOT ONLY CAN YOU have Clarke kent without Super Man...you MUST have Clarke Kent without Super Man, historically.

Let's say that you don't believe in Superman, but you think that Clark Kent was probably a real person.

So, we look for all the Clark Kents in the phone book. Only one of them turns out to be a reporter, but he doesn't live in and has never been to Gotham City. He wasn't adopted and didn't fall from space in a special pod. His parents are not Martha and Jonathan, but Sid and Betty. He has no Superman alter ego and does't know anyone named Jimmy Olsen or Lois Lane.

None of this would change the fact that "historically" Clarke Kent existed.

But here you are still ranting about the magical side of Clarke Kent now...

History does NOT care nor interest itself in your obsession with a magical man that defies the laws of physics. Do you understand that? I feel like I am type to a wall here. We make progress, then you revert back to

"Jesus can't be magic so history as a whole is wrong that he existed".

I don't care if Jesus was a rapist and a bank robber! I don't care if he was a drunk who tricked people with card tricks! I care that YOU are trying to break and ignore proper historical data that has been peer reviewed and accepted widely by almost ALL historians who are far wiser, smarter and well educated on these subjects than you...while you fake and pretend to know a different truth (one that is a joke to modern academia as a whole) for one obvious reasons...

You have a personal hatred for Clarke Kent.

Don't you get it? Every time you revert to bashing or seeking a magical Jesus, you leave the realm of historical debate and enter a crap-storm of faith and magic.

This is about history...not your personal demons over Christ...and SuperMan.

MM

originally posted by: windword

Believing in Jesus Christ is a matter of faith, not fact.

Absolutely not. Its a matter of obtaining an educated view on proper history that is supported by decades of research and peer reviewed study.

It is the direct opposite of the word "faith".

You supporting a theory that has been debunk beyond laughable measures is faith. You have faith that a thoery that has been destroyed by educated experts (for good reason) is real...over all the world's research and proper investigations on history.


See? that's faith.

Learning what research says about Jesus is called "educating yourself".

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

Well, I disagree. I think the analogy fits perfectly. And, no I don't hate Clark Kent. LOL

I don;t care if Jesus was a rapist and a bank robber! I don;t care if he was a drunk who tricked people with card tricks! I care that YOU are trying to break and ignore proper historical data that has been peer reviewed and accepted widely by almost ALL historians who are far wiser, smarter and well educated on these subjects than you...while you fake and pretend to know a different truth (one that is a joke to modern academia as a whole) for one obvious reasons...

Well then, take your pick. Pick a Jesus, any Jesus! There are a number of historical Jesuses that fit those descriptions. I linked you to a few of them.

This is about history...not your personal demons over Christ.

I'm still waiting for you to list of the false histories, that I've supposedly posted.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Mr Mask
I'm still waiting for you to list of the false histories, that I've supposedly posted.

I am still waiting for ONE instance where similar has happened where a person was said to be a real live person and was actually invented hundreds of years later.

From what i DO know is the chance of that working is just not possible. One reason is where were the previous followers of said person? I think people would be a little suspicious right there.

You could not come up with any examples of this. The few you did attempt were easily debunked. Sure, pen names are common. BUT if you told people hundreds of years after Shakespeare book came out that he was God (in the flesh) how far would this go? I say it would go nowhere and have no reason, due to lack of evidence that this is possible, to believe otherwise.

...and feel free to send my query in this thread to all the other people you link to that agree with you and they can come here to give a try.

That is one point that that would not involve opinions and conjecture. Which, imop, is frustrating some members because it is a questionable debating tactic especially when it keeps occurring.

If that is satisfactorily answered i would acknowledge it. Forward to all, will be interesting.

a reply to: Harvin

Hundreds of years later....these persons may have a religion named after them (they never existed):
• Moby-Dick
• Sherlock Holmes
• Count Dracula
• Victor Frankenstein
• Huckleberry Finn
• Scarlett O’Hara
• Jane Eyre
• Hercules
• Zeus
• Robinson Crusoe
• Ebenezer Scrooge
• Arthur
• Sir Lancelot
• James Bond
• Betty Crocker
• Uncle Sam

a reply to: Harvin

I am still waiting for ONE instance where similar has happened where a person was said to be a real live person and was actually invented hundreds of years later.

Don't like my Shakespeare example? How about:


Serapis

Serapis was devised during the 3rd century BC on the orders of Ptolemy I of Egypt[1] as a means to unify the Greeks and Egyptians in his realm. The god was depicted as Greek in appearance, but with Egyptian trappings, and combined iconography from a great many cults, signifying both abundance and resurrection. A serapeum (Greek serapeion) was any temple or religious precinct devoted to Serapis. The cultus of Serapis was spread as a matter of deliberate policy by the Ptolemaic kings, who also built an immense Serapeum in Alexandria.
en.wikipedia.org...

Adam and Eve
Enoch
Noah
Mithra
Horus
Attis
Artemis
Persephone
Pygmalion
Robin Hood
Santa Clause
Frankenstein
Rumpelstiltskin
Hansel and Gretel
Cinderella

I could go on........

originally posted by: windword

Adam and Eve
Enoch
Noah
Mithra
Horus
Attis
Artemis
Persephone
Pygmalion
Robin Hood
Santa Clause
Frankenstein
Rumpelstiltskin
Hansel and Gretel
Cinderella

I could go on........

Huge problem with your list...MOST Historians (and educated people) do NOT think those people are real. Because there is no evidence that they were.

The most mainstream history would never place Jesus along side those names...because peer reviewed research and study shows Jesus most likely existed.

See...this is like when you tried to use Super Man to erase decades of academic insight.

It don't work. You can't use cartoons, ghosts, monsters, poppycock...or hacks writing fumbling books with disjointed/broken theories- to prove Jesus didn't exist.

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

Huge problem with your list...MOST Historians (and educated people) do NOT think those people are real.

That wasn't the question/topic.

I still recall a thread here where i asked the question about people who were thought to be real people and actually were made up.
.........
SO, here is the chance for anyone to give an example.
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=Harvin

Besides, most of the people from the 1st and 2nd centuries DID believe some of those people were real. Most people believed that many of those characters were real just 100 years ago.

Still waiting for your list of the false history and lies that you claim I've been posting.