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'Jesus NEVER existed': Writer finds no mention of Christ in 126 historical texts and says he was a

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posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask




Sir you have been linked, directly shown, seen quotes of and direct passages from mainstream historians. You have been shown discovery channel drivel for the laymen and shown the extended and in-depth research of those who dominate the field of history to gain an expert's view.


More deflection.

You can't provide any contemporary historical writing that proves the existence of one Jesus the Nazarene or Jesus the Son of Joseph, or Jesus Christ, that's not in the Bible.

You can't proved any solid evidence, outside of the Bible, whatsoever, for the existence of the actual real person, you say is to be credited with the biblical narrative, sin magic, of the character known as of Jesus Christ.




posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Mr Mask




Sir you have been linked, directly shown, seen quotes of and direct passages from mainstream historians. You have been shown discovery channel drivel for the laymen and shown the extended and in-depth research of those who dominate the field of history to gain an expert's view.


More deflection.

You can't provide any contemporary historical writing that proves the existence of one Jesus the Nazarene or Jesus the Son of Joseph, or Jesus Christ, that's not in the Bible.

You can't proved any solid evidence, outside of the Bible, whatsoever, for the existence of the actual real person, you say is to be credited with the biblical narrative, sin magic, of the character known as of Jesus Christ.




You are kidding right?

Of course there is no know writings from contemporary writers about Jesus. If there was...there would be no debate to be had. Do you really think that fact says anything?

Are you aware how many great names in history people assume are rock solid evidence of that person's existence- meanwhile there is no contemporary writing of them?

How does this change the fact that mainstream history sides largely with "Jesus was a real human"? How do you think you have figured out a secret most historians do not accept? Like I said...who are you to sway me? I am following the learned views of experts and scholars...respected ones...and you are what? Helping this quack sell a book that is being laughed at by real experts?

Please don't bring up magic again...I seriously will fall of my chair.

MM



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: windword

You can't proved any solid evidence, outside of the Bible, whatsoever, for the existence of the actual real person, you say is to be credited with the biblical narrative, sin magic, of the character known as of Jesus Christ.



Actually there is good evidence outside of the bible, but most evidence that leads experts to thinking Jesus was a real person is from the bible. Does that anger you? Does it also anger you that many historical observations are accepted because of evidence from the bible?

Does it bother you that there is lots of stuff in the bible that is actually correct (even if its littered with nonsense)?

MM



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask




How does this change the fact that mainstream history sides largely with "Jesus was a real human"?


And, what would that mainstream history entail, again?



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Mr Mask




How does this change the fact that mainstream history sides largely with "Jesus was a real human"?


And, what would that mainstream history entail, again?


Holy crow bro...for the 11th time (yes I have told you this 11 times)

Mainstream accepted History "mostly" sides with the character of Jesus Christ (from the Christian bible) as being a real living man who preached, got a following, got arrested, killed and then rumors spread of him being alive again.

deal with that...cus its true.

Now lets reiterate your main 2 explanations for this.

1) Jesus is not magic.

2) History is being controlled by a secret cabal inside the church that is holding truth hostage to sway the masses and all historians are lying to us for that secret cabal.

can you even begin to imagine how hard it is for a rational lover of history like myself to deal with someone talking about magic and secret evil church cults controlling history?

Seriously bro...I know he wasn't magic. I'm not a man of faith.

And seriously bro...no...the church is nowhere near as powerful as you think it is.

MM
edit on 24-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 24 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: windword

Well he didn't go by the name Jesus anyways his hebrew name is Yehshuah



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 03:48 AM
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a reply to: Mr Mask



Mainstream accepted History "mostly" sides with the character of Jesus Christ (from the Christian bible) as being a real living man who preached, got a following, got arrested, killed and then rumors spread of him being alive again.


This is accepted by many, but there is absolutely no proof, outside of the Bible.



2) History is being controlled by a secret cabal inside the church that is holding truth hostage to sway the masses and all historians are lying to us for that secret cabal.


You're putting words in my mouth that I never said. However, for for around 1700 years, Christianity had been enforced by the end of a sword! For hundreds of years, anyone who didn't believe, or questioned the official church stance, was put to death.


edit on 25-10-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: windword

You're putting words in my mouth that I never said. However, for for around 1700 years, Christianity had been enforced by the end of a sword! For hundreds of years, anyone who didn't believe, or questioned the official church stance, was put to death.



That was a very long time ago bro.

History, science and reality around you is not controlled by any church. Historians do not think Jesus existed because a church os using a sword.

This is a modern age where reason and logic govern the state of Academics.

And as it stands...most historians think its is more logical to think Jesus was really a living person who preached his views, gained a following and then got killed for it causing a disturbance.

Sorry...that is just the end of the story bro.

MM



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

Outside of the Bible, there is no mention of Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus Ben Joseph. But we do have records of men named Jesus preaching and some of them were killed by the Romans.

Your constant argument, a logical fallacy and an appeal to authority is getting tiresome.




Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Yeshuas/Jesii, about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ! In his Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel.



Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. From the walls of Jerusalem he had remonstrated with the besieging Idumeans (led by ‘James and John, sons of Susa’). It did him no good. When the Idumeans breached the walls he was put to death and his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds.



Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. And given the scale that Roman retribution could reach – at the height of the siege of Jerusalem the Romans were crucifying upwards of five hundred captives a day before the city walls – dead heroes called Jesus would (quite literally) have been thick on the ground. Not one merits a full-stop in the great universal history.



Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach (aka 'Ecclesiasticus, or the Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach'), part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom' and Homeric-style heroes.


A surveit of Jesuses!

There is no evidence, whatsoever, of the existence of the biblical character of Jesus Christ, Jesus of Nazareth or Jesus the son of Joseph, outside of the Bible. There is good reason to believe that the biblical character is a composite character of several people and gods.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: windword

Sigh...this is not an appeal to authority. You seem to take onboard that I myself have not even said that Jesus existed even once. I have simply told you that most historians accept it is most likely.

Thus far you have-

Linked me to quacks who are laughed at by all real historians.

Called me a faith based Theists who listens to William Lane Craig and other wacky book selling theologians (while ignoring my constant reminder that I am not a man of faith).

Insisted history has a working conspiracy controlled by the church that forces historians to tow the Jesus lie. Like a CODENAME: Kids Next Door villain.

AND endlessly ranted on and on about how there is no magical Jesus when "Historical Jesus" is not suggested to be magical by any real historians weighing in on the case.

Its odd...

Then you say I am deflecting.

You seem very prepared to have "one argument" and only one. A battle with a God fearing theist who thinks Jesus did magic and was the true son of God.

I doubt you speak with many academically educated people on this matter. I'm not a bumpkin. I am not a Thiest (tho I support them) and I am not telling you Jesus was real.

I am telling you MOST historians think he was, because all evidence strongly suggests he was. And the information and stance you are providing and taking- are all nonsensical fringe Jesus-mythicism that is widely not taking serious by leading experts in the fields of history and archeology.

I'm sorry the truth bothers you and causes you to leave the subject time and time again, bringing up magical events and obviously flawed dogmatic institutions based on lies and greed.

But...ultimately...its still true...MOST historians think Jesus existed.

And the info you present has done zero to sway history as a whole because its a silly farce.


MM



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

Or maybe this Egyptian is your Jesus!


"These deeds of the robbers filled the city with all sorts of impiety. And now conjurers and deceivers persuaded the multitude to follow them into the wilderness, and pretended that they would show them manifest wonders and signs that would be performed by the providence of God. And those that were deceived suffered the pain of their folly, for Felix brought them back and punished them.

At this time there came out of Egypt to Jerusalem a man who said he was a prophet, and advised the multitude of the common people to go along with him to the mountain called the Mount of Olives, which lay a distance of five furlongs from the city. He said that he would show them that at his command the walls of Jerusalem would fall down, through which he promised that he would procure them an entrance into the city. Now when Felix was informed of this he ordered his soldiers to take up their weapons, and with a great number of horsemen and footmen from Jerusalem he attacked the Egyptian and the people that were with him. He slew four hundred of them and took two hundred alive. But the Egyptian himself escaped from the fight and did not appear any more. And again the robbers stirred up the people to make war with the Romans.”
Jewish Antiquities 20.8.5-6 (War 2.13.5-6 )

www.biblehistory.net...



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask




Called me a faith based Theists who listens to William Lane Craig and other wacky book selling theologians (while ignoring my constant reminder that I am not a man of faith).

Insisted history has a working conspiracy controlled by the church that forces historians to tow the Jesus lie. Like a CODENAME: Kids Next Door villain.


I said no such thing, and, I'll thank you to stop putting words in my mouth.



I am telling you MOST historians think he was, because all evidence strongly suggests he was.


I'll ask you again. What evidence would that be? After all, that's what we've been arguing here, evidence, not magic. Where is your evidence that Jesus Christ existed? And don't tell me that your evidence is "most scholars".









edit on 25-10-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: windword

How bout we just let a leading expert tell ya the truth here.

""modern critical methods fail to support the Christ-myth theory. No serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus'. That idea has been "annihilated" by the best scholars because the mythicists have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary" -Michael Grant.

Mythicism is a joke bro. You are falling for a hack's attempts to sell a book by appealing to Christ haters and mindless New Atheist hipsters running to buy anything that spits on religion.

Like them...you are also quoting idiots, ignoring experts and solid evidence, and completely leaving the realm of "acceptable and legitimate Hisotry" as known to the world's experts today.

If you fell comfortable in siding with those wacky types who sell books that get laughed at by experts...I'm ok with it too.

I mean seriously...look how many times you basically ranted that Jesus didn't do magic...like that is even a suggested issue in any serious academic field.

Hugs bro.

MM
edit on 25-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: windword

I'll ask you again. What evidence would that be? After all, that's what we've been arguing here, evidence, not magic. Where is your evidence that Jesus Christ existed? And don't tell me that your evidence is "most scholars".



My evidence is most scholars. And the evidence they present. Don't you get it?

Literally almost EVERY SINGLE EXPERT HISTORIAN.

Can you not find the evidence yourself? I shared it with you twice, a complete list actually. I answered your "what evidence question" two times already.

You keep getting the evidence shared with you. Others have shared it with you as well.

You keep ignoring it , saying its fake cus church cults are holding history secretly hostage and then returning to magic.

Seriously man..I soon have to give up on this conversation because I am wondering if you can grasp it without clouding the water with irrelevant topics and/or quackery that you find legitimate "history".


its very clear alls you want to hear is "Jesus was not real". Sorry chum...educated experts think he was. Most people who study history or even have a highschool education on the matter think so too. Know why? Cus your "theory" has been debunked as nonsense for many many years by the majority of all serious scholars on the subject.

MM




edit on 25-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-10-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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originally posted by: windword
Is that based on recent arguments, or on the whole thread? Because, in my opinion, the non-believers won the debate several pages back, and now it's just stupid repetition, minus the scholarly quotes.

I was reading near the start, but I've been in and out after that.

There have been some good arguments and some bad ones on both sides. It's really been a difficult thread to engage in because of some of the personalities involved. I never like the martyr arguments or the appeal to the spread of the faith arguments. On the flip side I find persons rely too much on the existing mythologies and lack of written sources arguments. It's just one of those topics where most people talk more than they read I guess?

I guess we can all move on once Mr Mask finishes building church or whatever. >.>



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: Mr Mask

And there we go again with your appeal to authority, with a twist this time!

Anyone who questions the authority you acquiesce to, and that you want me to also acquiesce to, is a quack. Anyone who disagrees with the main stream is a hack! Got it! LOL

Deny Ignorance, Dude! You're on a conspiracy site commenting on a thread entitled: 'Jesus NEVER existed': Writer finds no mention of Christ in 126 historical texts and says he was a 'mythical character'


Earl J. Doherty is a Canadian author of The Jesus Puzzle, Challenging the Verdict, and Jesus: Neither God Nor Man. Doherty argues for a version of the Christ myth theory, the thesis that Jesus did not exist as an historical figure.



A veteran priest in Ireland has reportedly been forced to quit a Bible-teaching job after writing a book claiming Jesus never existed.

The claim by Father Tom Brodie is made in his work, “Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus,” which debuted last fall.
Read more at www.wnd.com...


More Scholars Who Doubt the Existence of the Biblical Jesus



edit on 25-10-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 04:57 PM
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That WND link was interesting. I was going to report Windwords posts due to passing off opinions as facts but I am too lazy.

The questions that i posted, numerous times here and in many forms, has not been answered as none of the examples panned out.

The argument is this:

How did Jesus come out of the blue hundreds of years later? I am not aware of similar being done before so unless someone can post some form of precedence...I just dont understand how this premise would work. And I am asking from a secular perspective. I think many artifacts are overblown and too much conjecture is applied so any examples need to be based on reality.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Observationalist




Kenneth Humphrey, the author in your above link wrote a 500 page book (Jesus Never Existed) to prove what is being discussed in this thread.


How many pages are there in the Bible? How many pages of contradictory and forged evidence is there in the Old and New Testaments to debunk? How many pages does it take to Break the 2000 years of brainwashing done at the end of a sword?



Why is there so much work to prove Jesus non existence? Are these athiest writers really have our best interest in mind trying to free the "inslaved minds" of the believers................


I was raised a Christian and I'm hear to testify, "Christianity doesn't promotes a healthy mind and soul". So.......anything I can do to help...............it's my duty. Your welcome!




You got any historical documentation for the 2000 years of brainwashing. Who was responsible for making up Jesus the Measiah?
Why did they feel the need to abandon their existing brainwashing of the Jews at the time?

With your 4 decades of experience, I'm leaning on your athority on this subject.



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Mr Mask

And there we go again with your appeal to authority, with a twist this time!

Anyone who questions the authority you acquiesce to, and that you want me to also acquiesce to, is a quack. Anyone who disagrees with the main stream is a hack! Got it! LOL

Deny Ignorance, Dude! You're on a conspiracy site commenting on a thread entitled: 'Jesus NEVER existed': Writer finds no mention of Christ in 126 historical texts and says he was a 'mythical character'



Um...sir...the majority of all historians and archeologists who weigh in on this subject agree with a single conclusion.

That is my point here.

And yes, those who support "your side" of this argument are mostly all hacks, snake oil salesmen and/or angry people wiht an ax to grind with "magical Jesus".

Yes...anyone chasing the "mythicism" train is chasing a story that is almost 100% disputed and rejected by all history experts today. Most historians will rush to say that mythicism is not only laughable but easy to debunk.

Get it?

So you are arguing that the handful of dozens who still promote mythicism in the face of thousands of real experts- are the correct ones...fine and fair.

There are also people who think space reptiles are living on the moon. We can all choose to trust what "experts" we wish to acknowledge I guess lol.

Hugs bro.

MM



posted on Oct, 25 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: Pinke

I guess we can all move on once Mr Mask finishes building church or whatever. >.>


Lol. Well I'm sure my personality is one of the harsher ones in here, and I apologize. It began with a member here demanding that I was a faith based zealot of magical Christ because I agree with the consensus of our standard understanding of history.

I get really uppity when someone starts screaming "YOU WORSHIP CHRIST" when I actually just really love history. I get even more uppity when said someone is also a supporter of the debunked and unaccepted claims of mythicism.

But really...I would so build a church for that chick with the gun. At least I know she's real.

Sorry for my unpleasant personality. I was raised by cyber wolves.

MM



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