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Christians: Is it okay to lie for Christ?

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posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:40 AM
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As a converted Catholic, I'm a bit sensitive to anti-Catholic polemics, and have come to realize that most of it goes back to a book from the 1960s, Roman Catholicism, by Loraine Boettner. Which means that it's mostly rooted in ignorance, willful or not.

But I ran across something this morning that really set me back. This image is floating around Facebook, causing a lot of consternation and anger directed towards Catholics and their appreciation of Mary:


Well, that's pretty damning, indeed. Mary and the baby Jesus are just the Catholic replacements of Babylonian gods.

But there's a problem. That "ancient Babylonian" statue is in pretty good shape for something that old, don't you think? Well, the reason that it looks that good is that it is a Catholic statue of Mary and Jesus at a cathedral in Cologne, Germany.


Now, whether or not the Catholic view of Mary and Jesus originated in ancient paganism isn't really the point here. Some Protestant went to the website of the Cologne cathedral, grabbed a picture of Mary and Jesus, slapped a "Semiramus and Nimrod" label on it and made an accusation that they KNEW was false.

They are "lying for Jesus."

Anti-Catholic polemicists, how do you defend that? Is it okay to just make stuff up if it supports your ministry?




posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:49 AM
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Visit the Origins and Creationism forum sometime or indeed any creationism forum/website/ministry.


But lying in order to have one's worldview make sense is par for the course when it comes to religion....
edit on 26-9-2014 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: Prezbo369


Visit the Origins and Creationism forum sometime or indeed any creationism forum/website/ministry.

As I noted, being ignorant and dishonest are not the same thing. Young Earth Creationists are ignorant, just like any anti-Catholic whose arguments come from Loraine Boettner are, but, while being ignorant is wrong, it isn't sinful by any Christian theology I am aware of.

But lying, intentionally distorting the truth, that goes against everything that a Christian is supposed to stand for, is sinful, and will necessarily have to be answered for at judgement.


edit on 26-9-2014 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:07 AM
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With Christianity you can lie, cheat, steal and commit all sorts of heinous crimes....

then ask for forgiveness and God pushes the reset button, reformats your soul, and it's all good.

redemption...now how convenient is that?



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: adjensen
Good catch adj.
This does appear to have been done with deception in mind, and not ignorance. I don't think the biblical Jesus would approve of such tactics. Not even against you hellbound Catholics.

edit on 9/26/2014 by Klassified because: eta



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: adjensen

Mother and child imagery and mythology permeates almost all cultures and mythologies, so just because this poster pulled an incorrect depiction doesn't mean their analogy is off base.

And, lying for Jesus???? The Roman Catholic Church?!!!! Pffft.

What about the Shroud of Turin or Our Lady of Guadalupe. The lies, inventions of the religious, where the ends always justify by the means, are too many to list.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: adjensen

"No. A thousand times, no."
-God



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: adjensen

Do not be so sure they are protestants, the devil worshipers and anti religious driven by there own warped zealotry often stoop to lying to persuade the weak of faith to there agenda driven point of view.

It is never christian or correct to lie for christ, after all he condemned lie's and called Satan the father or lie's.

The word's of Christ, "The truth shall set you free", "Shouted from the Roof Top's" (most gossip in crowded jerusalem and other town's of judae was past from roof top to roof top as the street's were crowded and the garden and communal open space was the roof top.

Everything about Jesus was about the truth so any who claim to lie for him are only lying for themselves.

There have been plenty of bad catholic's and bad protestants' alike.

The witch hunter general who murdered countless innocent woman and girls was one of the greatest serial killers in history and he perpetrated his crimes claiming he was doing God's work, a little odd how many pretty young woman had to strip naked in front of the filthy ould leture.

Thomas De Torquemada was not a nice guy but at least he never raped his victim's (I hope).

The Nun's of Ireland who starved children to death, "Let the little children come unto me for such is the kingdom of heaven", "When I was thirsty did you give me to drink, when I was hungry did you give me to eat".
I have no doubt those nun's and all monk's, nun's and priests like them from the lowest to the highest rank will be turned away by God and sent into the outer darkness for there crime's, but then there are and were the good one's and they were the teachers who ensured the teaching of christ stayed alive and which our modern western morality (Even though it is badly degraded) with our charity and care about other nations and people who we do not even know is based.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Prezbo369


Visit the Origins and Creationism forum sometime or indeed any creationism forum/website/ministry.

As I noted, being ignorant and dishonest are not the same thing. Young Earth Creationists are ignorant, just like any anti-Catholic whose arguments come from Loraine Boettner are, but, while being ignorant is wrong, it isn't sinful by any Christian theology I am aware of.


Take another look at that forum and you'll see creationists being intentionally dishonest, ignoring evidence, facts and creating their own out of thin air. Some are also willfully ignorant, which is just another form of dishonesty.


But lying, intentionally distorting the truth, that goes against everything that a Christian is supposed to stand for, is sinful, and will necessarily have to be answered for at judgement.


It's never stopped Christians from lying though...



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12
With Christianity you can lie, cheat, steal and commit all sorts of heinous crimes....

then ask for forgiveness and God pushes the reset button, reformats your soul, and it's all good.

redemption...now how convenient is that?

Forgiveness is convinient. But a person has to ask for it, and with a sincere desire for forgiveness. In addition to a "reconfigured soul", there is a responsibility to try to be a better person.
Sin is something that happens out of selfishness. A desire to be forgiven comes from an awareness of that selfishness. Asking another person for forgiveness is an action that requires an amount of courage, in my opinion, it isn't easy to ask.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:42 AM
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the statue of liberty bears a striking resemblance to semiramis as well.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: apydomis

Many, many abusers are truly sorry and repentant for their abuse, after the fact, and repeatedly and sincerely ask their victims for forgiveness. And then, they do it again.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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Watch the film, "God Loves Uganda" and you can start to see what happens when religious people decide to over embellish their opinions on so called religious doctrines for the sake of converting others. Some really evil shi...nanigans go down. God Loves Uganda Just one example of many where truly good people, with wonderful intentions have completely ruined an entire society. When muddling with things like other peoples spirituality and esoteric-isms one must be very careful.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767


It is never christian or correct to lie for christ, after all he condemned lie's and called Satan the father or lie's.


interestingly, if god was in fact the actual liar, he WOULD say that.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 11:58 AM
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If you follow Jesus and higher ideals then lying is from my point of view a big no. If you follow the religion that Paul created with Roman politicians then it seems lying is part of the spreading of that religion from my point of view.

Like the lie that Jesus will only protect followers of Pauls religion while he himself say I hate goats that say they are following me but do not do so in action and love sheep who are following me without knowing it.

Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus will be a protector of any soul who do the right thing.



With Christianity you can lie, cheat, steal and commit all sorts of heinous crimes....


That is Paul:s teaching. After grace comes the time where you fix the things you have done wrong to be free/unattached from the old corruption you have created.
edit on 26-9-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: apydomis

Many, many abusers are truly sorry and repentant for their abuse, after the fact, and repeatedly and sincerely ask their victims for forgiveness. And then, they do it again.


Lack of control over themselves/ego. It is hard to achieve true control on a planet like Earth with so many lies spread by so many people instead of the objective truth that is view less.



No man is free who is not master of himself. Epictetus

edit on 26-9-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 12:35 PM
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You can't understand or handle the truth when it is told. The absolute truth is a danger to your life. If i told you then you would die.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
You can't understand or handle the truth when it is told. The absolute truth is a danger to your life. If i told you then you would die.


and you are somehow miraculously able to handle a truth that would supposedly kill us. impressive. *snores*
edit on 26-9-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

"No man is free who is not master of himself."

YES! thank you. if my destiny is not mine to decide, then i am not free.



posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: deadeyedick
You can't understand or handle the truth when it is told. The absolute truth is a danger to your life. If i told you then you would die.



Sorry amigo, I'm calling cheeze on that one.

Tell me the absolute truth because apparently you know what it is.

I have thrown down the gauntlet....tell me! If you back away and don't tell me, or you tell me and I don't die....

What are we to assume? You lied? Adolescent bragging? You're drunk and talking out of your ass? Do it....

Otherwise from here on out you have destroyed your own credibility...your choice


u2u me with the absolute truth now!!!
edit on 26-9-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)




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