New Prescription Rules for Hydrocodone Set to Start in October.

wrong thread

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: James1982
There is zero compassion left in the medical industry, it's nothing but money and image. Stop playing with people's pain as your own little political tool.

Not sure about the logic of this statement. Surely "big pharma" or whatever would want to sell you all the pills you want.

I've never heard a doctor lobby for more regulation. There are, however, a LOT of people who like to gobble norco like popcorn, and you can get a decent price on the street for it, so there are a lot of bums that come in for Norco scripts.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me if they put a big Halloween bowl of percocet out on the counter and let people have at it. The problem would solve itself shortly.

I don't have any problem with Pharmaceutical companies producing these products, I have a problem with them lobbying so that their products are the only ones we can get, and need to go through a gate-keeper to get it.

Doctors benefit because they are the gate keepers. Just like with this new law, all the rules and regs keep you going back over and over again to a doctor just to get a prescription filled. You have to visit special doctors or travel extreme distances because they will openly admit "i don't like giving out narcotics" even when they know you are in legitimate pain.

If the goal was to help patients then those with legitimate pain would be getting pain medication, period. They aren't. Of course some of that will be diverted to the black market, so what? Punishing the many for the few is a backwards way of doing things.

I'm not personally a patient nor am I a recreational user but I have several people in my family who have severe degenerative issues, so I'm very familiar with the system. Watching loved ones go from big strong men to shriveled crippled messes in a few years time because they are in too much pain to move has an effect on a person.

Watching them be refused again and again for any significant pain medication also has an effect on how I view doctors and their morals. Watching one doctor accuse one of drug seeking when they are 55 with not a single nick on their criminal record, never having been to the doctor in the past other than for broken bones or infections, and multiple conditions with ample evidence also has an effect on how I view their priorities.

Sharing the same genes, and in my relatively young age already having osteoarthritis and various other joint and bone issues, I'm terrified that if a time comes where I'm unable to function due to pain, things will have gotten so ridiculous that I won't have any chance for relief. THAT is what scares me, and that is why I'm totally against all these ridiculous laws and regs that have to be followed.

a reply to: James1982

Much of it is because of life long hard labor jobs. It takes it's toll after a while.

originally posted by: sean
a reply to: Redwizrd

I can see a more regulation, but in what way does a fax of a script stop addiction?? I have my share of problems and have to have narc on hand. Back goes out, left hip goes out and probably will need surgery for that. Left ankle is fused with a 6 inch titanium bolt. I am constantly riddled with chronic pain and when something goes out I literally cannot walk for days. When I need a narc I need it! I take two at once just to take the edge off for a couple hours. I am in no way addicted. Twelve pills is all I am given. It lasted me the entire summer I still have 2 left :::knocks on wood::: I am lucky I haven't had such serious episodes this time around.

Seriously doc, why the hell do I have to beg for pills?? Why do I have to jump through hoops to prove myself? I always get told narcs are bad for you narcs ruin your liver, but they will recommend 1000mg of Ibuprofen twice a day. So ibuprofen helps inflammatory which helps pain I get it. I do use it too, but when your femur decides it wants to dislocate from your hip that's an entirely different kind of pain. In that point in time I wish I had morphine. The last episode I had to call an ambulance. I don't think Ibuprofen is going to fix that doc. It's getting to the point people got to beg, borrow, steal to get any real pain relief. I use to smoke marijuana years and years ago and I quit, I willed myself off cigarettes and quit, I don't drink.

I am seriously thinking of going back to marijuana and ingesting it in a pill form with or without the blessing of the feds. Piss on em! Here we are the great nation or once was and we have the worst the worst medical. My PA I see never checks my heart, carotid artery, never checks lungs, never checks a damn thing other than a pulse. I suppose if you have a pulse these days you're healthy. Where is the doctor? Oh he's out golfing with Obama. I am practically my own doctor!

I understand your point entirely. It's just patently ridiculous. I have a dear friend who was broken into many pieces in a car accident in the early 80s. He was told he would never walk again. He was told he would never be able to work again. But he worked hard at physical therapy and not only did he walk again after about 18 months, he went back to his factory job. But he has never been pain-free in all those years. He might have a day or two a week when the pain is tolerable but the only time his pain is really gone is when he's had medication.
He had to leave the factory job and take disability about a decade ago but in that time he has finished college, having learned a craft that has allowed him to establish his own small business in hopes of being able to once again support himself and lay some money back for a rainy day.
He uses marijuana to control muscle spasms. He tried several pharmaceuticals but the side effects were far worse and the relief is far greater and more immediate with pot. Lucky for him, his doc is a smoker too. When the piss test law came in he was seriously thinking he was going to have to pull up and move to a medical state. Now, that's a damn shame in my world.
Any legislator that would vote to delay or deny relief to people in pain should tarred, feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Our state made a very grave mistake. They can't claim ignorance on the issue either because there were a small multitude of us who expressed our fears of just such unintended consequences. They made criminals out of doctors who were guilty of nothing more than practicing merciful medicine. The legislators and our governor strutted about and crowed about how many "pill mills" they had caused to leave the state or how many people had been indicted because of their brilliant law. Now we've seen a whopping jump in people dead of heroin od. The latest big story on the problem I can find is this one: www.courier-journal.com...

I know a lot of folks who are filling up the legislators' email boxes. They don't like being treated like criminals just to get rid of the pains they suffer after going into foreign lands and fighting for freedom.
Our local issue at present is getting rid of the Attorney General who thinks it is better to put people in jail than to get them help with medical issues.

Conway said law enforcement agencies across the state are "beginning to make a concerted effort" against heroin by, for example, creating task forces to fight the drug. Louisville Metro Police officials said they don't have a specific heroin task force but do have 50 sworn officers in narcotics units. They said detectives educate and train police colleagues on heroin and any other drugs on the rise.
"More can certainly be done here," said Conway, who recently announced he is running for governor in 2015. "We can always do more."

And this monster is running for governor....

Didn't mean to derail, but the only way to get rid of this ridiculous legislation and its aftermath is to get rid of the people who pass it. Replace them.

a reply to: Redwizrd

In my opinion it is hard to believe that you are a PHD...

This is an interesting topic non the less and your input was how shall I say... street wise.

dp...

originally posted by: diggindirt
A close relative of mine has used Lortabs for pain relief since he was in an accident that broke many, many bones and required a dozen surgeries. He has trauma-induced arthritis pain in several joints that over-the-counter drugs won't touch. Mainly it only happens when there is a change in the weather. He takes one or two a week sometimes---and has stayed at that level since he got over the initial surgeries over 20 years ago. He will need this type of pain relief for the rest of his life. Those bones are as good as they'll ever get, the arthritis won't go away and leave him pain-free and yet these medical "professionals" can't distinguish between a person who uses the medication for chronic pain relief and the ones that are distributing them to the abusers.
According to his doc, it seems that the corporate medical industry is attempting to funnel all pain relief issues into some sort of specialized pain management clinics. Another relative of mine was sent to one of those clinics and found out that if he refused any of their treatments---when the treatment didn't work on his pain, or made him so sick he couldn't function---they will refuse to treat the patient! It's their way or the highway---in other words they don't actually care if they take care of the pain as long as the patient does exactly what they tell him to do AND that the insurance papers are all in order....

You are absolutely correct about the pain management clinics. My momma has bulging disks in her back/previous neck surgery to replace disks/ 2 knee surgeries - partial meniscectomy and ACL reconstruction/ arthritis and a few other things. She lives in constant pain and has to endure this nonsense. She hardly drives much so either the hubby or myself will take her where she needs to go.

Another poster said that they or someone they know are looked down upon as if you are a low life/not worthy of living in the skin you are in/ scum of the street. I have witnessed this happen to my mother. She is in so much pain I cry for her because I can't do anything to help her. She has a very low pain tolerance and extremely uncomfortable. Her quality of life is rapidly decreasing.

Years ago when she had the neck surgery they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her and put her on dilaudid for over 9 months. They finally discovered that she had bulging disks and were pinching on nerves. They operated and she never looked back at any kind of prescription drug for over 13 years. Anyway she never had to jump through the hoops she has to now. She was referred to this pain clinic and it was required that you get treatment or no pain relief. She had to go every two weeks for a re-script take a drug test and then go back between weeks for injections. When she refused the last set of injection because they were making things worse the nurse said to her abruptly that she couldn't write her anything.

One doctor said he couldn't write because he didn't believe she was in as much pain as she let on and if she would lose weight she would not be in so much pain. Keep in mind she has been thin all her life until now and gained due to being more sedentary. So yeah I have witnesses terrible/horrible/no good/ very bad bedside manner and insurance smacking you in the face even harder.

It is all truly a scam. Give to me. Give to me. Give. to. me.

originally posted by: wanderingconfusion


One doctor said he couldn't write because he didn't believe she was in as much pain as she let on and if she would lose weight she would not be in so much pain. Keep in mind she has been thin all her life until now and gained due to being more sedentary. So yeah I have witnesses terrible/horrible/no good/ very bad bedside manner and insurance smacking you in the face even harder.

It is all truly a scam. Give to me. Give to me. Give. to. me.

That's one of the most disgusting comebacks that doctors like to throw around, about the weight loss and pain. They don't have such a great plan on how to loose weight when you are in too much pain to move. I'm starting to wonder if doctors are even needed anymore. Surgeons definitely, specialists definitely, but a GP seems like nothing other than a glorified receptionist who gets paid way better and has a huge ego.

The only thing they do is tell you to get rest and fluids, or write you a prescription (just not for anything useful) anything more serious they pass you off to a specialist or a surgeon, so why are they needed? What do they actually do?

a reply to: sean

All narcotics and controlled schedule 2 drugs need a new prescription.....This is not new....I believe some of the benzodiazpines such as valium, xanax, klonipin, ambein can be refilled on original presription though....

Pax

a reply to: wanderingconfusion

Pain is subjective period! Any doctor refusing to treat a patient for adequate pain relief can be brought up on charges before the medical board for unethical treatment! This is a very serious offense! Call the American Board of Physicians and she/he needs to report the facts to the board! Tell them their comments will carry more weight if they stick to the facts and to leave out emotional opinion.....Please send me message if you need more help....


Praying for you and family

Pax

No, not my Lortabs! I NEED those! (cue melodramatic story)

Another thing you all can thank Nixon for.

Sorry folks, but a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch. Essentially, hydrocodone has been moved from schedule III to schedule II, as virtually any other opiate is classed. (as they well should be.) Meaning, no refills, no writing RXs for more than a month's supply, and hand-written hand-carry only.

I've been taking a sched II drug for Adult ADHD for several years now, welcome to the "Jump Through Hoops To Proove You're Not A Junkie" show.

My doc is a retired Army helo pilot, exercises his right to open carry on a daily basis (in fact, was instrumental in the drafting of many of our state's gun laws) and the ONLY time i've seen him lose his temper and use a curse word, was when an opiate-seeker came in last month.

This lady was in hysterics, making the pharmacy call his office, and then coming back in while he was still on the phone, full of phony excuses as to why her Fentanyl patches fell off, and she didn't keep the ones that fell off as proof (just threw them away) and asking "Well, what about my Lortabs? What about my Percocets? What about my Dilaudid? I NEED my refills!"

4 different opiates. 1 patient.

Since pain is purely subjective, pain meds are likely to be abused. Factor in "Doctor Shopping" and the problem multiplies exponentially. An old friend of mine's mother was in legit pain, but turned up the sob story at doctor's visits, and made a good chunk of (illegal) change by doctor shopping and selling it on the street. This is to stem the tide of such people.

These new rules are intended to keep people from going "Hey, Grandma has an old Lortab prescription from like 2 years ago, with a few refills left. Calling that sucker in and gettin [bleep]ed up!"

Deal with it.

Just a few corrections. Per the FDAs new regulations any refills written before October 6 will be good until April. A doctor can also write up to three scripts at a time for a 90 day supply. Of course if a state has stricter regulations those supersede federal regulations.

It is also worth mentioning that more states are allowing CIIs to be e-prescribed. I know Virginia just passed a law that allows this.

a reply to: sean

Solution: Stop taking opiates. They are bad for you anyways. Medical marijuana is around the corner, it's safer and better for you than opiates. Jump on that train instead.

ETA: The solution to this whole thread is medical marijuana.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Look at opium production in Afghanistan prior to 2001 and look at what it is now... So I think I have it figured out.

opiates in Afghanistan
Stargate in Iraq
Bomb the piss out of Syria making it Assyria ...

I'm glad they're trying to get this kind of thing under control. It's ridiculous how many people out there abuse drugs. It makes it harder for those of us who really need meds like this.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: sean

Solution: Stop taking opiates. They are bad for you anyways. Medical marijuana is around the corner, it's safer and better for you than opiates. Jump on that train instead.

ETA: The solution to this whole thread is medical marijuana.

Yes, but the pain management people make their patients take drug tests to be sure that they are not using marijuana for their pain, and if they find that they have done so, even a little bit, they are kicked out the door, with the opiates and all other needed meds cut completely off......

Someone with permanent spinal cord damage and scaring cannot simply go without any thing, even if they would love to...........round the corner does little to comfort someone who is in so much pain right now, and knows it will never go away.

originally posted by: U4ea82
a reply to: whyamIhere
I wish I could but currently, it is the only pharmacy in my area that will order name brand Fentanyl. All of the others refuse to order Duragesic. My insurance company will only pay for the name brand. My copay for the name brand is $15, whereas if I have to purchase generic it is $285.

As a medical professional, I find this highly unlikely. Almost ALL pharmacies will orde something for you,mid you have a script and need it. That includes name brand meds, too. Have you ever tried a hospital out patient pharmacy? I'm with some of the other posters who suggest you find a new pharmacy. Sounds like the one you go to now is more interested in being a Gestapo type place of business versus helping patients in need!

Check out reviews on Yelp or Google for pharmacies in your area then give the manager a call, that might help you find a better place to take your business!!

Good luck! My mother has chronic pain, but we are used to picking up her scripts. She gets two months worth then goes on the third month, or if she's unable to because of health reasons, we just pick it up for her. Her doctor and pharmacy have both been very good to her, so that helps. A lot!!

a reply to: frayed1

No I meant ONLY use marijuana not marijuana and opiates.

Many of the heroin addicts I've met in life developed their addiction from not being able to aquire pain meds for some reason or another, as H is much cheaper & one doesn't need to see a doctor. I wonder why the Pharmacutical companies aren't fighting this legislation.

I must mention, Kratom as an alternative to manufactured pharmacuticals. It is a rather interesting mu-opioid receptor agonist, and it is legal in most states in the U.S. I have seen it help several addicts beat their addiction (& withdrawals), yet there exists a real danger in becoming again addicted to the substance, just as with any other opioid. It has been used in Thailand and the surrounding areas for hundreds of years to treat opiate addiction.

This is only one facet of the restrictions and regulations that are directly affecting patients that are in need on pain management.

I'm not sure what it is like in other states, but in CO, there is also a unified database between pharmacies and they just enacted a limitation on 'units' prescribed a month, but nothing about dosage (go government!). Despite my documented health issues, I have literally been told everything from "suck it up" to "there are two trains of thought on whether or not a spine is broken." I have also been told that meditation provides better pain relief than anything else. All that said, the amount of anti-depressants that are pushed on me is excessive. Every single discussion about pain management includes a 'push' for them. Every. One.

As for marijuana, there are certain types of pain that are not particularly well controlled by any measures, such as bone pain. There are only very specific strains that are effective, and there is not reliable enough access to use it as a treatment method. More study DOES need to be done on it, as most seem oblivious to it, even including edibles that are not made with specific, high quality ingredients. Some strains will even make such pain worse, and that's exceedingly important, obviously. It is not a blanket cure, specifics are extremely important but not enough research has been done.