What is ISIS thinking?

I keep seeing people ask, about the ISIS situation, “What are they doing? Are they suicidal? Don’t they realize that turning all the worlds biggest powers against them will just cause them to get blown off the face of the earth??”

Some even answer that they are crazy… or that they insanely believe that Allah will protect them. This strikes me as a misunderstanding.

Their state of mind is the same as many spiritual seekers- many Christians, many New Agers, many who practice any kind of belief system which aims to find spiritual peace or enlightenment- the over coming of fear.

Anywhere you will come up against the sort of dialogue which separates light from dark, positive from negative, proclaiming one a superior state of being, the other inferior, is working on the same principle.

Anywhere you find practices and thought systems aimed at dispelling fear, and the “lower” reflexes and drives of the body, in favour of more “enlightened” states of bliss, inner peace, and stable acceptance and happiness, is doing the same thing as the members of ISIS.


The goal is to have thought patterns, conceptual forms, and beliefs which over ride our animal drives, and our instincts to survive and insure the survival of our genetic material in offspring.
These are often seen as man’s “problem” or spiritual challenge to learn to master or destroy. They are considered the source of all internal instability, making us reactive to our environment, and sometimes even irrationally so.

A belief in an afterlife is very much a tool in that endeavour, especially when it includes a divine all powerful entity, with the power to judge and punish or reward. That thought form separates one from their internal guidance of evolved survival instincts and reflexes. It is what separates man from animal, in many peoples minds.

It is what separates us from our senses, from our body, giving our intellect the experience of “freedom”; of being detached from this world.

From what I understand, the Muslim extremists are no more crazy than any other spiritual seeker. (Unless you want to call the others all crazy too.) They have developed the ability to free themselves from the “lower” instincts of survival, from the animal drives to survive and reproduce. So many religions idealize selflessness and self sacrifice- how could any western person not understand what is going on in their heads, when our own society parades the image of a man nailed to a wood cross for a couple thousand of years?

I don’t think they expect Allah will protect them, from what I understand, they pretty much believe that the most part of the world will turn against them and probably kill them and their families. They’ve got beliefs in afterlife which sustain them against the urge to run from that possibility (much like being able to sit at the right hand of Christ ), and that is the ultimate test of overcoming fear and lower physical drives; the mind over matter has been achieved when you can make your body do something that will lead to death of the body.

-And the idea of self sacrifice for a greater cause is not totally mistaken- not only does self sacrifice tend to turn many others to sympathizers of the sacrificed (turning more against one’s enemy) but in this case, it is part of spreading the belief system around the globe.

We could nuke these countries of source to nothingness, and it would not stop the spread- only make it happen sooner. The terrorists do not invite new members to come join them where they are (usually troubled teens or young adults, rebels looking for a cause), they tell them to serve the cause where they currently are. To blow up people and things in their own town or country. The more violence is brought upon the group they align with, the more they will be stimulated to overcome any last hesitancy and do it.

A belief system is a meme, like any concept, and it seeks to survive and reproduce, at the expense even of the host. This one has already spread through out the body of the human population. Nuking the most concentrated and evident nodules will do nothing to stop the infection that is already spread, and in some places simply less symptomatic yet.

I too thought that it was strange that their mandate to establish themselves as a a caliphate and state was based upon attacking and threatening the worlds largest super power. Strange that they had the logistics and resources to take over part of two countries and apparently reap profit from the oil that is available there, yet they base themselves upon the undertaking of an unattainable goal of winning a war with the US. I think that it's been mentioned that they believe they're part of some prophetic vision and that they feel honoured to fight and die in this struggle. I've also read that most arabs would consider Israel to be the ME's greatest enemy, yet they're right next door and nothing has happened, odd.

Maybe their just a fuse on a bigger bomb? I guess belief in the afterlife may play into it but I'd also bet the ranks are filled with many displace men and women who have lost everything in the ME turmoil. They get fed, belong again to a community and if they have an axe to grind against the people they perceive as the ones who caused their grief...They now can grind it!

a reply to: Bluesma

No they are not suicidal. They are not crazier than Saudis are - just a tad stricter version of Islam though, but basically totally legit (sing strictetto - not libretto).

So no big deal. ISIS they just want order. And law abiding citizens. Thats all.

Please consider useing the French term for these criminals,the world is going to erase all records of this group,they will hve NO NAME for history to remember.

a reply to: Bluesma

they are just friggin nuts ..and have some sort of pinky and the brain mentality..." we are going to take over the world"

here is a short vid that another member seabhac-rua posted on another thread

I posted in another thread exactly what is going on in their heads. If u see them after they take over a district or city, they jump up on microphones and start rallying the locals to their cause. They chant "takbir" and the crowd follows with "Allah Akbar". They mostly get the attention of kids but some middle aged and teens as well. Basically they are channelling all the hate and/or frustration there is with the west to their own cause. They blame all their woes on the infidels and they say "we are going to war to kill the infidels, to rebuild our caliphate so we can have one Nation of Islam that is true to the word of Allah and true to the ways of prophet Muhammad. Anyone who doesn't side with us is supporting the infidels, do not side with them, they wish to destroy Islam"

Basically "you're either with us or against us".

To put it in perspective picture the south circa turn of the century. Let's say there had been a lot of crime by (or at least attributed to [falsely]) black people. And the local KKK started hosting rallies that they were gonna purge America of blacks. In their heads they figure all whites must think the same as them except for a few that aren't being true to their roots.

They figure if they rally all the whites they can achieve their objective.

The reality is, is if they could rally all the Muslims in the world they could achieve their objective. Muslims are everywhere. 2 billion of them in key areas every nation.

Fortunately Muslims aren't all messed up in the head. The ones that are, are the equivalent of some backwoods hillbilly nut job.

a reply to: Bluesma

ISIS are left overs from Al Qaeda,Taliban and virtually all troubled individuals in the region and the world.A perfect bad ass boogy man created and supported by the super powers and their allies in the ME hoping to unite all the powers for a same cause and fight the same "enemy"...In return the world will rid itself off of a bunch of crazy individuals and perhaps some "dictator" regimes and the rest of the world Mainly the US,Russia,EU,Iran and China can co operate and get along for the times to come.One more step towards the new world order scenario and long term energy security for the US and the EU...And I honestly think the Isis members are thinking,,Daa,bo,money,cars,O,virgins,revenge and then some food,caliph,baby camel,Hollywood,guns,drugs and so on.

To understand the Muslim world in the region you have to understand the effects of colonialism and western foreign policy of the past century in particular. Muslims are tired of seeing their families bombed to smithereens, tired of Israeli oppression in Palestine (which is propped up by the U.S), even when Afghanistan was taken back by the people after the Russians were ejected, no western power would recognise it as a state (they made no threats to the west) instead using 911 as an excuse to go in and install their puppets, even going into Iraq based on lies, again killing many civilians, torture in Baghram, Guantanamo etc etc I cud go on. Now Muslims feel a strong a sense of 'global family' they are brothers and sisters to each other... With all thats gone on IS was inevitable, and yes the true place is seen by them as the next life, this is just a quick passage to it where ur actions will be judged, if the right thing to do is to take on the oppressors, then they will do it, even if it means death, in fact in their view to die in the cause is much better than passing away old and grey. They do not fear death as long as it is for the right reasons, and in the right circumstances may welcome it. Victory or martyrdom is their slogan....

originally posted by: Kamza
To understand the Muslim world in the region you have to understand the effects of colonialism and western foreign policy of the past century in particular. Muslims are tired of seeing their families bombed to smithereens, tired of Israeli oppression in Palestine (which is propped up by the U.S), even when Afghanistan was taken back by the people after the Russians were ejected, no western power would recognise it as a state (they made no threats to the west) instead using 911 as an excuse to go in and install their puppets, even going into Iraq based on lies, again killing many civilians, torture in Baghram, Guantanamo etc etc I cud go on. Now Muslims feel a strong a sense of 'global family' they are brothers and sisters to each other... With all thats gone on IS was inevitable, and yes the true place is seen by them as the next life, this is just a quick passage to it where ur actions will be judged, if the right thing to do is to take on the oppressors, then they will do it, even if it means death, in fact in their view to die in the cause is much better than passing away old and grey. They do not fear death as long as it is for the right reasons, and in the right circumstances may welcome it. Victory or martyrdom is their slogan....

If you choose to kill people in the misguided name of your imaginary dietys you WILL be stopped permanently.

No one needs to understand anything about the Muslim world in the region, it is simple,the Global Community does not condone nor accept murdering people for crazy religous reasons,it is simple and clear, we accept religous diversity,but we do not accept murder in the name of any of those religons,the World has changed,times always change,no one WANTS to understand this group of murderers we wish to see them all tried and punished for their crimes.

This group will NOT be remembered, their name has already been spat on and erased by the French,they have been decapitated as an ideology by the French.It is already done,no going back now.

People will always recognise the Muslim religon because as a Global Community we choose to accept diversity,not because of divine rights by one group over another.

Sooner or later these little countries who choose to allow criminals like this to hide within their domains will get the message that there is no safe place on earth where you can hide from the Global Community.

a reply to: one4all

Lol take it ez, was just trying to paint a picture of how they see it. Though ur viewpoint seems to be very much in approval of the indiscriminate killing and oppression that lead to this situation... Anyway it was 'mission accomplished' last time the US went into Iraq with a coalition I'm sure it will be the same this time

originally posted by: Kamza
a reply to: one4all

Lol take it ez, was just trying to paint a picture of how they see it. Though ur viewpoint seems to be very much in approval of the indiscriminate killing and oppression that lead to this situation... Anyway it was 'mission accomplished' last time the US went into Iraq with a coalition I'm sure it will be the same this time

i can tell you what will happen...a lot of bombs are going to go boom and a lot of people will die.....

To understand the Muslim world in the region you have to understand the effects of colonialism and western foreign policy of the past century in particular. Muslims are tired of seeing their families bombed to smithereens, tired of Israeli oppression in Palestine

this kind of thinking will simply lead to more death and more oppression you have to move on from the past to go forward otherwise you are doomed to repeat it

Well, as far "they are just friggin' nuts." I don't find that to be very clear, and sounds more like a refusal to comprehend the enemy. Someone else wrote "No one needs to understand them".

I always feel that understanding ones enemy is essential in a conflict. In warfare and strategy, being able to understand the perspective and mind set of the opposing side is necessary to be effective.

Their moves are not totally irrational and insane- the "you're either with us or against us" method someone else mentioned?
Freedom fries anyone? This is the usual strategy used in any campaign, whether it be international relations or a ganging up situation in the workplace of school! Why? because it works.

So... the idea of taking over the world is insane? But not for the US, who sought to do so (and was largely successful).
Except all the world powers throughout time set out to do that too. So if they're nuts, so are we.

My points are two fold- in simply waving them off as nuts, you underestimate your enemy.
By being filled with anger and moral indignation, refusing to analyze any further their reasons, you make yourself vulnerable.

Seeing from their perspective does mean the possibility of recognizing things you have in common with them, which might be uncomfortable for a second, but like I said, I have always found that observing and becoming aware of the problem as fully as possible is always an important step in finding solutions.

But as an undercurrent of thought, I point out the folly of all belief systems which seek to detach oneself form their senses and their physical drives and reflexes.

a reply to: Bluesma

Yes considering they are hoping to prime the pump for a total war through the Arab world they need to take on big enemies to give themselves credibility. Besides which national army in the area can stand or has been standing against them? The Iraqi and the Syrian armies are in check so far. Russia, the traditional supporter of Syria and the US recent trainers of the Iraqi army are then naturally going to be mocked.

In addition, being able to undertake what they have after over a decade of the superpowers fighting Islamic fundamentalists and nationalists, not only makes these superpowers look like fools but gives ISIS a good deal of credibility with those they hope will rally behind them. Apparently the Algerian branch is acting out due to this encouragement.

originally posted by: Kamza
a reply to: one4all

Lol take it ez, was just trying to paint a picture of how they see it. Though ur viewpoint seems to be very much in approval of the indiscriminate killing and oppression that lead to this situation... Anyway it was 'mission accomplished' last time the US went into Iraq with a coalition I'm sure it will be the same this time

I am very much in approval of a Global Military Force we can use to stop these religous bickerings,with the clear message that NO RELIGOUS edicts will ever over-ride the best interests of the Global Community .

You dont get to kill people ,soon we will be at a point where we WILL have a Global Terror Task Force and we will ALL live by the same humanitarian laws.

I believe that the world deserves peace and that it is an attainable goal.

It will not be "mission accomplished" until Global Borders drop and we can begin to effect Global Humanitarian relocation and get these people the heck out of those wastelands they are bickering over,give em all a real chance to leave and they will leave the hatred behind when they go.

We are facing a United Global Future,whoever wishes to lag behind the curve WILL BE DRAGGED FORWARD against their will,Humanity needs this direction, this united front.The Muslims should have Jihaded the Jihadders already,it is their mess,even pacifists are getting tired of cleaning up these religous messes,we are all aware there are specific numbers of sick and mentally deficient people in EVERY GROUP these murderers are this small % and they do NOT reflect any religous sane beliefs.Muslims are sane law abiding people with a religous belief system which is evolving like all belief systems evolve,it needs time like all religons need time to mature and adapt,the Global Community ACCEPTS religous diversity,it does NOT accept murder in the name of any religous belief system,end of story.


It is simple,no killing,that is all there is to it,you kill and the World will hold you accountable and there will be NO PLACE to hide from the Global Communitys reach and influences.

a reply to: Bluesma

Am I understanding you right?

Nuking the most concentrated and evident nodules will do nothing to stop the infection that is already spread, and in some places simply less symptomatic yet.

So with out spirituality everything would be peaches and cream right?

Why not just clone yourself exponentially until you have a world
where everyone thinks, believes, talks, walks and acts like you because
everyone is you? Wouldn't that be cool?


Boncho

The ones that are, are the equivalent of some backwoods hillbilly nut job.

Because all the smart people live in cities?

I got news for you people.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Bluesma

Am I understanding you right?

No. You are not.

So with out spirituality everything would be peaches and cream right?

No. I have no desire for the world to be "peaches and cream" (if that means, without any problems, challenges, or conflicts). I have no idealistic dreams of that sort, and make no propositions for any.

Why not just clone yourself exponentially until you have a world
where everyone thinks, believes, talks, walks and acts like you because
everyone is you? Wouldn't that be cool?

No, that would be terribly boring.

Is it that upsetting to consider these enemies as human, like you? With similar desires, dreams, goals, or challenges?
Or what?
These comments seem hostile, is that a mistaken impression?

a reply to: Bluesma

Maybe I'm from the backwoods and need a lil help here?
I'm not the one commenting about nuking a certain people
are you?

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Bluesma

Maybe I'm from the backwoods and need a lil help here?

I cannot figure what you might need help with unless you say what it is.
My best guess is that you have not understood what my point, and would like me to re-word it somehow, to find a way of saying it that will help you understand.

-I- do not think the people of ISIS (or whatever term one wishes to call them) are insane, or irrational.

-2- I think they are human beings, searching for spiritual enlightenment and deliverance from the difficulties of existence, just like most humans around the globe.

-3- I think they are using techniques and methods that are not irrational, or stupid- they are employing methods which have been used in the past by countless groups and societies, exactly because they are effective and powerful means.


ETA- you added another part to your post. The comment that we should nuke them was made many times, by many posters, in many threads. It is probably a very common commentary at this time, anywhere. It is of course, the most extreme example we can think of, and was why I referred to it, trying to point out that mere military forceful pounding will not overcome the methods being used here.
To make a comparison- the english settlers lining up in their traditional battle stance, arms loaded and ready, while indians were simply spread out and hidden through the forest, in the trees, with only arrows to wipe them out as they travelled. Superior weaponry and discipline is not a guarantee of victory, nor of higher intelligence.

a reply to: Bluesma

That's a horse of a different color.

The way I read your OP, you were on some kind of atheistic
crusade to despiritualize the planet.