BREAKING: Video Finally Released of Cops Shooting Man with a Toy Gun in Wal-Mart

a reply to: Answer

Anything to law enforcement is a "readying" movement. My point stands.

I disagree. Simply holding a firearm in a public location doesn't establish a threat.

a reply to: Answer

I've read through bits and pieces of this thread, each time you seem to try and justify the reaction of the officers. I can't agree with your position.

The most egregious point you make is that he turned to face the officers. What do you do when someone yells at you? This was a case of 'shoot first, ask questions later.' They didn't wait to see if he was a threat, they didn't hesitate. That's what people have a problem with. They didn't hesitate. That's the problem. Do I have to say it again? They didn't hesitate to pull their triggers. There's no professionalism. There's no cool, calm, collected action. It's disabling the threat before establishing the threat.

Citizens don't want their police to react in this manner. This is where the outrage is coming from. Do you understand? If you believe the training kicked in and they acted appropriately, then I and many others would agree that the wrong kind of training kicked in.

a reply to: Answer

He was incredibly absent-minded or downright stupid to behave the way he did.

Last time I check that wasn't supposed to be a death sentence

...personal responsibility... he was 22 years old. That is not a kid...

Personal responsibility...exactly. That goes for everybody involved.

Many many 22 year olds lack the experience & knowledge to have a complete understanding of the way their actions influence others and their surroundings or to accurately analyze possible outcomes.

That's why a lot of 22 year old's do some stupid SNIPITYSNIPSNIP...
I don't think anyone but an individual younger than 22 years old would honestly call your average 22 year old a mature individual.

Grabbing an air rifle off the shelf at walmart and idly swinging it around while wandering around the store engrossed in your phone conversation sounds EXACTLY like something a 22 year old would do.

I doubt he even realized what section of the store he was in.
He was 95% focused on the phone conversation & 5% focused on the toy he had - stuck in a la land...
Very common place for a 22 year old to be...just ask anyone that had kids.

A trained 30 something LEO however should possess the training and the understanding necessary to handle this particular situation correctly..
If they don't have that ability in their skill set then they either need to:
1. Get adequate training
2. Turn in your badge.

With great power comes great responsibility & you sure as hell shouldn't get a penalty free pass to immediately exercise the nuclear option just because you have a badge on your chest.

Stop pretending that his behavior was normal shopping

Unless you're an advertising agency that's analyzed shopping patterns and can give me data on what exactly "normal shopping behavior" is - stop pretending to know.

Nope. I place the blame 100% on Mr. Crawford

Exactly my point - to you it's exactly 0% the officers responsibility & that mentality is exactly the problem.

originally posted by: coldkidc
a reply to: Answer

He was incredibly absent-minded or downright stupid to behave the way he did.

Last time I check that wasn't supposed to be a death sentence You keep doing that... you seem to have a problem keeping my statements in context. His stupid behavior with (what everyone at the scene assumed was) a firearm is what got him killed. Stop taking my statements out of context and claiming I'm trying to insinuate stupidity alone is deserving of death.

...personal responsibility... he was 22 years old. That is not a kid...

Personal responsibility...exactly. That goes for everybody involved.

Many many 22 year olds lack the experience & knowledge to have a complete understanding of the way their actions influence others and their surroundings or to accurately analyze possible outcomes.

That's why a lot of 22 year old's do some stupid SNIPITYSNIPSNIP...
I don't think anyone but a 22 year old is going to honestly call your average 22 year old a mature individual. Except for every government in the world, but continue...

Grabbing an air rifle off the shelf at walmart and idly swinging it around while wandering around the store engrossed in your phone conversation sounds EXACTLY like something a 22 year old would do. No, that's what a moron would do. The fact that this case is unprecedented is proof of that.

I doubt he even realized what section of the store he was in. Of course he didn't... of course he didn't.
He was 95% focused on the phone conversation & 5% focused on the toy he had - stuck in a la land...
Very common place for a 22 year old to be...just ask anyone that had kids.

A trained 30 something LEO however should possess the training and the understanding necessary to handle this particular situation correctly..
If they don't have that ability in their skill set then they either need to:
1. Get adequate training
2. Turn in your badge.

With great power comes great responsibility & you sure as hell shouldn't get a penalty free pass to immediately exercise the nuclear option just because you have a badge on your chest.

Stop pretending that his behavior was normal shopping

Unless you're an advertising agency that's analyzed shopping patterns and can give me data on what exactly "normal shopping behavior" is - stop pretending to know. Don't be dense. If you really want to start talking credentials, I do have experience in loss prevention and monitoring shoppers on CCTV cameras in a retail environment. I did that during college. I have many many loooong boring tedious hours watching people shop. Learning normal shopping patterns happens pretty quickly and it becomes very easy to tell if someone is a shoplifter. What's your experience in determining normal shopping behavior?

Nope. I place the blame 100% on Mr. Crawford

Exactly my point - to you it's exactly 0% the officers responsibility & that mentality is exactly the problem. That's just like... your opinion, man.

Come on the cops didn't stop to think did no assessment and made no move to disarm him without use of deadly force,they compound this by lying after the fact plus I can see this happening in NYC were you don't have that right to openly carry around weapons but their state do,so even if they got a call saying there is a guy is a gun the mind set should have been yes folks carry guns,if they got a report saying the man was unstable ,again they should have told the man to lay down his arm and get on the floor,what did they do?? rushed in Bang Bang bang! it was incompetence pure and simple and they deserve to lose their badges and not allowed to become dog catchers.

originally posted by: Spider879
Come on the cops didn't stop to think did no assessment and made no move to disarm him without use of deadly force,they compound this by lying after the fact plus I can see this happening in NYC were you don't have that right to openly carry around weapons but their state do,so even if they got a call saying there is a guy is a gun the mind set should have been yes folks carry guns,if they got a report saying the man was unstable ,again they should have told the man to lay down his arm and get on the floor,what did they do?? rushed in Bang Bang bang! it was incompetence pure and simple and they deserve to lose their badges and not allowed to become dog catchers.

The phone call recordings disagree with you but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Spider879
Come on the cops didn't stop to think did no assessment and made no move to disarm him without use of deadly force,they compound this by lying after the fact plus I can see this happening in NYC were you don't have that right to openly carry around weapons but their state do,so even if they got a call saying there is a guy is a gun the mind set should have been yes folks carry guns,if they got a report saying the man was unstable ,again they should have told the man to lay down his arm and get on the floor,what did they do?? rushed in Bang Bang bang! it was incompetence pure and simple and they deserve to lose their badges and not allowed to become dog catchers.

The phone call recordings disagree with you but don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

In what way??

These cops are shoot first wussies.

I and many soldiers have been in zones where you couldn't distinguish friend from foe and yes there was the danger we could be fired upon at every turn or encounter. How is it that police on US soil have less fire discipline than we did in a foreign land?

If we had opened fire on every person that had a weapon making the slightest movement the country and soldiers of this nation would be over their heads buried in war crime violations. When I see videos like that it makes me think I need body armor more in the US than when I was overseas.

a reply to: Grimpachi
Cops are ignorant as hell it seems. They seem to think people can turn off the natural reflexive responses to the unexpected that kept us alive as a species, when people are in their presence; And if not they are justified to shoot or beat them.

A cop was just shot in Ferguson, it's being reported...This WHOLE country is circling the drain...!

a reply to: GoOfYFoOt

I read the cop was shot in the thigh they have already tracked down the shooter. The shooter is dead.

Police version of shock and awe.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: GoOfYFoOt

I read the cop was shot in the thigh they have already tracked down the shooter. The shooter is dead.

Police version of shock and awe.

Dead to two self inflicted shots in the back of the head I'm sure.

a reply to: Grimpachi

100% right - too many inadequately trained LEOs that are so scared they're about to piss their pants ready to pull on anybody that moves too fast...

Except for maybe a 7 year old child...oh...wait, maybe not:
Grandmother says she watched police kill 7-year-old

Ok...what about a 93 year old lady? Nope
93-Year-Old Woman Shot Dead by Texas Police

Surely not an unarmed mentally disabled man? Wow...
LAPD Shoots and Kills Unarmed Mentally Disabled Black Man Ezell Ford

What about someone in a wheel chair? Damn...
Police kill amputee in wheelchair at group home for the mentally ill

Houston police shot to death a double amputee in a wheelchair who they said was trying to stab an officer with a pen

Yeah folks - we got a problem.

double post - might as well add that it's sad there's so many examples like the ones above...you don't even have to look hard...

a reply to: Answer
So how much does FOP pay you to troll here?
Don't know who I hate more PIGS,or PIG apologists..

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Power_Semi
Why on Gods green earth would anyone be wondering around a store with a weapon, real or toy?

Because the store sells them. That's why.

That was my point - only in America is it considered normal to have AK47's or replicas of assault rifles being sold next to milk.

originally posted by: Spider879
Come on the cops didn't stop to think did no assessment and made no move to disarm him without use of deadly force,they compound this by lying after the fact plus I can see this happening in NYC were you don't have that right to openly carry around weapons but their state do,so even if they got a call saying there is a guy is a gun the mind set should have been yes folks carry guns,if they got a report saying the man was unstable ,again they should have told the man to lay down his arm and get on the floor,what did they do?? rushed in Bang Bang bang! it was incompetence pure and simple and they deserve to lose their badges and not allowed to become dog catchers.

I dunno if it's the cops that should have their badges taken away, however, the guy who called it in should be on trial for sure. I was asking when this first came out, why didn't the guy assess the situation? In our world, if someone is walking around with a gun and they are waving it around, people will panic. Almost always they will panic anyway. No one in the video was panicking. The guy just called. I mean... Yeah. The cops are at fault for the same reason, they didn't assess the situation. But.. They were just following the call they were given, right?

And yes, you're right. Ohio is open carry, so even if he did have a gun and he was walking around with it, he still shouldn't have been shot dead.

The problem here is that the caller said he was waving it around, that he was loading it, and that he was pointing it at children. When that happens, all protection from open carry is gone.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

SO, you're implying that EVERY 911 call should be taken as fact, and common sense should never come into the equation until what the caller has described is dealt with swiftly? As if no one has ever made a false police report or 911 call?

That is absurd. It should be the D U T Y of law enforcement to Identify! Then, Assess! And then finally, to Act!

Not go straight to ACT, and then try to wait out the initial outcry while getting your story straight, before officially going on record...!

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt
a reply to: Lyxdeslic

SO, you're implying that EVERY 911 call should be taken as fact, and common sense should never come into the equation until what the caller has described is dealt with swiftly? As if no one has ever made a false police report or 911 call?

That is absurd. It should be the D U T Y of law enforcement to Identify! Then, Assess! And then finally, to Act!

Not go straight to ACT, and then try to wait out the initial outcry while getting your story straight, before officially going on record...!

No, I'm not saying that. I did say that the cops were at fault for the same thing. Not assessing the situation. Don't ignore things in order to push your agenda. They need to show up to the call and assess it. They are at fault, but they wouldn't be at fault if it wasn't for the caller.