The Golden Key of Evolution - Involution and Dependent Variables in Symmetry

originally posted by: AlephBet
This is a spinoff from this thread: It's thanks to evolution...



Like information, bits of data are informed, or formed within. Seed is planted inside, then comes forth as the form it dictates. An oak tree is not the acorn and the acorn is not the oak tree. Each form carries the same seed, and the seed itself is the image of both the acorn and it's information shell (seed). Information makes the form (like the human face).

there's always exceptions. take a seed from a granny smith apple and you might get a different type of apple.

a reply to: AlephBet

You lost all traction and credibility when you demonstrated that you don't understand evolution at even the most basic level by your statements to the effect that evolution is not the cause it is the result as if you are refuting long standing tenets of biological processes as taught to students from middle school on through graduate level studies.

Evolution has never been taught or stated to be a cause of anything. Evolution is a process. It is the sum of genetic changes and adaptations over time from the micro to the macro level. Modern Evolutionary Synthesis is the study of the results of those changes as we currently see them and a look into the last to see what led up to these changes as well as the starting point to chart and analyze them to better understand our past, where we came from and how we became who we are.

Refuting something without understanding it, no matter how big and foofy your wording attempts to be is a fools errand. How can you expect to be taken seriously when right out if the starting gate you demonstrate how little you actually understand what it is you are attempting to refute? And then the bible verses... That's certainly not the route most would attempt to traverse when addressing science. The two simply don't exist within the same realm. Just like Modern Evolutionary Synthesis, for which there is an immense amount of supporting data and the esoterism of involution. One has legitimate and testable supporting data and the other has bible verses, a wing and a prayer. It just doesn't match up and there's nothing legitimate in your post to support your hypothesis.

a reply to: AlephBet

You overlooked the...orthogonalflibbrtyjibberts symetricalwheelabarrowback involutarykickatinalong yourskyfairydoesn'texist. An easy mistake to make. The last one is not so much invariant as a universal constant.

a reply to: taoistguy

there's always exceptions. take a seed from a granny smith apple and you might get a different type of apple.

A different type of apple is still an apple. The archetype is apple, just like a dog will never develop into a horse. There is one independent archetype that then develops the dependent variables in the same. Adaptation is all we have ever seen from the independent variable of the image. The image itself never changes. Variety is observed, but never veering from the independent archetype. Those are set. There were apples falling from trees at the beginning of any fossil record that we can find in the deepest strata of Earth we have ever examined. An apples is an apple. You might find a fruit there in the record that we do not have today, but never apart from the ones we do have today. Different varieties of the same are all that have ever been observed.

a reply to: peter vlar

Evolution has never been taught or stated to be a cause of anything. Evolution is a process. It is the sum of genetic changes and adaptations over time from the micro to the macro level. Modern Evolutionary Synthesis is the study of the results of those changes as we currently see them and a look into the last to see what led up to these changes as well as the starting point to chart and analyze them to better understand our past, where we came from and how we became who we are.

Not what they have taught in schools for the last century. You cannot put out this current lie and deny what has been taught in schools for many years. This is still being taught in schools and in documentaries. The premise of evolution is that we evolved from simple-celled organisms. What they fail to show is that chemiosmosis denies this. It's an irreducibly complex process to derive energy from what can only be described as the most efficient fuel cell ever devised. Our own fuel cells cannot match this process. The entire human body runs on a the energy needs of a light bulb. Nature did not develop this process. It is a factory. Just ask a biologist.

You can't even begin to understand biology, you can't understand life, unless you understand what it's all there for, how it arose - and that means evolution.
Richard Dawkins

---Did he say life arose from evolution? YES! He did.

Evolution isn't just a story about where we came from. It's an epic at the center of life itself. Far from robbing our lives of meaning, it instills an appreciation for the beautiful, enduring, and ultimately triumphant fabric of life that covers our planet. Understanding that doesn't demean human life - it enhances it.
Kenneth R. Miller

---Did he say that the story of where we came from is evolution? YES! He's wrong.

Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is the only workable explanation that has ever been proposed for the remarkable fact of our own existence, indeed the existence of all life wherever it may turn up in the universe. It is the only known explanation for the rich diversity of animals, pants, fungi and bacteria. Forward to The Theory of Evolution by John Maynard Smith (2000) p.xv

YOUR WORDS: "Evolution has never been taught or stated to be a cause of anything."

Care to amend this statement? I would watch the second video at 3:00, but the whole thing demands the answer I have given. John 1 --- In the beginning was the WORD. The Hebrew word Father is Aleph Bet, or letters of DNA (ABBA). What do letters write? Word. We are created and the designer left the signature: DNA Hidden in the Letters of Creation.

a reply to: peter vlar

Refuting something without understanding it, no matter how big and foofy your wording attempts to be is a fools errand.

The OP is solid on the evidence and understanding of information theory. I have shown this to be the case by continually showing the higher axiom of truth. If you bother to look up the terms I have used, you will see that I am correct. I even defined them for you in this post, using WIKI to show the definitions and connections. Until you show how I am wrong on each point, your opinion matters little. Debate the points with science, not opinion.

Review this post...Debate these points if you want to refute what I have said. They stand as solid evidence for involution as a cause. That cause demands a designer.

When I was a child, toys mysteriously appeared under a Christmas tree every December 25th. Ultimately, this fact did not make Santa Clause a real entity.

a reply to: AlephBet

Oh cute. Much like the saying "Sarcasm is the lady refuge if the imaginatively bankrupt",quote mining is the last refuge of one who seeks to equate god with evolution and vice versa. Your Kenneth Miller quote doesn't even support your position. I'm not sure what schools you've been to but coming from someone with an Anthropology degree and with children currently in elementary and middle school, I've never encountered, have not taught or been taught myself, nor have my children been taught evolution in the fashion you insist it is taught across the board.


So in response to your question, no I do not care to amend my statement, especially when your supporting your position against established science with another inane and irrelevant biblical quote. You are quote mining and taking things out if context and a large portion of the quotes you think support your position simply don't which reaffirms my initial statement and position that you don't understand modern evolutionary synthesis at even the most basic level. Take a refresher course and then come back and tell me again how I'm pedaling lies Instead of attempting to cloak esoteric mysticism under the guise of pseudo science.

Your quote from Miller- does not support your case. Your Dawkins quote is being misused because all he is saying is that studying evolution is going to give you a better understanding of our last and origins, much like I stated in my post. The quote from the forward to John Maynard Smith's 'Theory of Evolution' again, like every other quote you've taken out of context because you don't understand what they're saying is simply telling you that evolution is the explanation and the process. Not one of them states that evolution is the cause. Not a single quite from a scientific resource supports that level if foolishness and cognitive dissonance. This is one if those glaring examples of the failings of our current education systems and it makes me both sad and nervous for our future.


While were on the topic of real science, care to provide an actual citation for your comment on chemioosmosis denies modern evolutionary synthesis? Simply saying it doesn't make it so. The whole BS about irreducible complexity is just more intellectual dishonesty and throwing the baby out with the bath water because you're confusing lukewarm with boiling. And your coup de grace is comparing Hebrew language which ironically is a man made construct with DNA which is clearly a natural process and conflating it to coincide with what you choose to believe. Good luck to you, you're going to need it if you really believe what you're putting out. You're going to need it.

a reply to: AlephBet

Like information, bits of data are informed, or formed within. Seed is planted inside, then comes forth as the form it dictates. An oak tree is not the acorn and the acorn is not the oak tree. Each form carries the same seed, and the seed itself is the image of both the acorn and it's information shell (seed). Information makes the form (like the human face).

but no two trees are the same, thanks to evolution.

If you approach this from the perspective of a catalyst in nature, all things that appear in nature format the material they are embedded in. Informed information is the key to seeing this. What is the material shell of the human body? Where does the information come from that forms within that shell? Obviously, it comes from outside the shell, but not the outside we typically associate with in and out. This 'in and out' is by dimension.

i would compare the "information" as you put it to the OOO. order of operations. except instead of numbers on paper, it is molecular physics. a dance bound by the laws of physics and guided by the whims of chance. there is no destination other than cohesion. balance will naturally be sought of course. thats how energy works. i know, you believe this cannot come from an incoherent mess. purpose cant come from purposeless and whatnot. here, have a video, since you like to post videos so much. maybe it will educate you.



but yes, it does come from outside the shell. thats where the universe is. derp.

To get this, define the word Orthogonal (of or involving right angles; at right angles.) Variety must be statistically dependent. For a face to be different, it is dependent on the quantity that is statistically independent. To view the right angle aspect of this, imagine a 1D line. Many 1D lines make a 2D plane. They are Orthogonal, or at right angles. Move to the next right angle from 2D to 3D and you have the human face. The human face then changes states in time, or at right angles in space from motion (4D). What is at right angles to time? Probability. Where is probability in relation to the 3 dimensions below of mater? Again, what is independent of the statistical variety?

"dependent on the quantity that is statistically independent"

quanity of what? dependent on what? independent how? what statistics? in one sentence, you have made a total of four statements that have no evidence. they barely even state anything. see what i'm talking about?

What is at right angles to time? Probability.

ive never heard of that theory. did you just invent it?

Where is probability in relation to the 3 dimensions below of mater? Again, what is independent of the statistical variety?

what. the. f***. are you talking about. what variety? what statistics? what relationship does probability have with spatial dimensions?

i am so lost right now.

and the rest of your post is just more of the same. turn what i quoted above into something intelligible and i may consider looking at your op again. right now it just gives me a headache trying to puzzle through your word soup.

originally posted by: Xeven
When I was a child, toys mysteriously appeared under a Christmas tree every December 25th. Ultimately, this fact did not make Santa Clause a real entity.

It merely showed you who he truly was--Father and Mother. What is the point? They exist and so do our original parents. Aleph Bet and Aleph Mem - Hidden in the Letters of Hebrew - Mother and Father

a reply to: peter vlar

None of your redirection will change the fact that evolution is the go to theory for every secular documentary trying to explain our origin or the origin of a species. Evolution is dead as a cause for the diversity of life we see around us. Entropy in information (not energy) is the first nail in the evolutionary coffin. Degradation of bits of information over time would destroy the ability of a species to pass coding on to the next generation. Given sufficient time, the sequencing of information would collapse. The reason it doesn't is reproduction. Reproduction is the next nail on the coffin because it would have been a necessity from the beginning, begging the question: how is a design feature embedded into the coding of information present from the very first cell? The points I add in the OP are yet other nails sealing up the coffin of evolution as an origin of species.

Dimensions existing in the fabric of our reality dictate where consciousness comes from. It comes from the higher dimensions, well above that of the material world they are embedded inside. The Bible gives the most detailed and accurate picture of this as Word in an image, with light shining on the image. What is this a definition of exactly? A hologram, which is what Science now is suggesting from current theory.

ALL roads lead to design. None lead to evolution as anything but a process built into that design from the beginning. It's a failed notion to support another conclusion. Involution is the cause and this is what the science clearly bears out. The Bible was there first.

I will continually ask you to demonstrate how any of the points I have made in the OP are incorrect. Speak to the specifics of the points I made.

a reply to: AlephBet

None of your redirection will change the fact that evolution is the go to theory for every secular documentary trying to explain our origin or the origin of a species.

it isnt an ORIGIN theory. its a theory of how life developed from single cell organisms to what we see today. origins are another matter entirely.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Your questions mainly revolve around the concept of collapsing wave function. If you had an understanding of this, then the questions you have in the post I am replying to would be cleared up. I will answer each question one at a time after I show you an easy way to view the measurement problem in physics as it relates to superposition of the particle and the wave function collapse of all probable states. Thank you for being the first person to actually try and answer the OP.

You are a 3D object in space/time. You make the choice to move, but your movement is restricted by laws. For instance, you cannot jump up and float. It's not a probable state for a choice. A probable state is a choice you will make to move in space/time. Flying is not an option since gravity (a law) restricts you. This is where collapsing wave function comes in. At any given time, there are a host of probable states you could choose to exist in. You could move to the kitchen or sit in a chair. There are millions of variations that you could choose, but only one wave function at a time can be collapsed. Over the course of a few seconds, you collapse multiple wave functions to make choices. Additionally, many other wave functions are collapsing around you. You are affected by choice, chance and the actions of others.

Where is time in the sequence of dimensions? Time is the movement of changing states of time/space around you. You experience one slice at a time, just as your 2D shadow is a slice of your 3D body as a shadow. When you move, it moves in relation to you and the light around you. A 2D shadow is comprised of 1D lines, with each dimension orthogonal too the one above (at right angles). This is where you must look at right angles for consciousness above time and law. Law is above time by dimension. Consciousness is above both law and time. Collapsing wave function is how states of matter change, and this cannot be separated from consciousness, which is above the rest of the lower dimensions.

This is basic science. I'm sorry, but the agent of change cannot be matter. It is, by necessity of the observed dimensions, consciousness. It is not reasonable or logical to suggest that matter is the agent. Evolution claims be the agent. In fact, it is the involution of the Spirit (Conscious observer).

This video explains this from the viewpoint of quantum mechanics (spoken by a physicist).

Quote from the video description, or the summary of the video:

"Consciousness causes collapse of the wavefunction and thus actively selects the event observed in the future as an agent choosing among the many possibilities physically represented by the probability distribution imbedded in the quantum wavefunction. "

In the next post, I will clarify your other questions.

a reply to: TzarChasm

but no two trees are the same, thanks to evolution.

I believe evolution to be a result. As I clearly explained, linear mathematics, as well as many other domains of mathematics, reveal that the translational symmetry (the thing showing diversity) is dependent on the independent archetype (that which is invariant and symmetric). I then show you where this comes from: Invariant Symmetry of the Strong Nuclear Force. A tree is always a tree. There are many translations of that archetype, but the independent archetype cannot change. The image of the original is the template / temple of the first. In the Bible, the blueprint of the temple sets the design of the body (human form). It's a copy, yet diversity of the human form expands form the archetype. The Son of God is the FIRST image (see Colossians 1:15). Again, the Bible was already there with the mechanism and metaphor we need to see this correctly. If you have not studied the temple blueprint, then you do not realize why, for instance, the temples at Luxor and Salomon's temple are templates of the human body. The proportions of the body are that of the temple itself.

"dependent on the quantity that is statistically independent"

quanity of what? dependent on what? independent how? what statistics? in one sentence, you have made a total of four statements that have no evidence. they barely even state anything. see what i'm talking about?

I just explained this. Evidence is with me and the countless physicists, emendations, chemists and biologists who have provided the proofs for what I am then using as a parallel to what the Bible said countless years ago. I understand that you are not making the connections, but you need to first know the current theory behind the science. I have explained it, linked to it and provided many videos showing the evidence clearly. The fact you do not understand is the problem. You won't understand until you face the truth and deny ignorance.

Concerning time as a right angle to the 3D world around you, you asked:

ive never heard of that theory. did you just invent it?

You need to know your linear mathematics and what a linear matrix is in relation to the physics of collapsing wave function. Time and Space are dependent on the independent aspect of invariant symmetry. What you see as changing states of matter are in fact, right angles to dimensions above, with time being one of those dimensions. Indeterminate probability (that which is not yet determined) is above time. Law is above probability and consciousness is above all the lower dimensions. Consciousness (Spirit) is the agent of change. Law governs the dimensions as they cascade down from the top. Changing states of matter cannot originate at the bottom.

what. the. f***. are you talking about. what variety? what statistics? what relationship does probability have with spatial dimensions?

i am so lost right now.

and the rest of your post is just more of the same. turn what i quoted above into something intelligible and i may consider looking at your op again. right now it just gives me a headache trying to puzzle through your word soup.

The very reason the Bible puts it into metaphor, allegory and the very history we live is so that you can see what is hidden. I am merely showing you how science and the Bible agree. How? Science is finally catching up to the correct metaphor.

a reply to: AlephBet

You are a 3D object in space/time. You make the choice to move, but your movement is restricted by laws. For instance, you cannot jump up and float. It's not a probable state for a choice. A probable state is a choice you will make to move in space/time. Flying is not an option since gravity (a law) restricts you. This is where collapsing wave function comes in. At any given time, there are a host of probable states you could choose to exist in. You could move to the kitchen or sit in a chair. There are millions of variations that you could choose, but only one wave function at a time can be collapsed. Over the course of a few seconds, you collapse multiple wave functions to make choices. Additionally, many other wave functions are collapsing around you. You are affected by choice, chance and the actions of others.

im not sure the term "wave function" can be applied to a human body. perhaps metaphorically...

Where is time in the sequence of dimensions? Time is the movement of changing states of time/space around you. You experience one slice at a time, just as your 2D shadow is a slice of your 3D body as a shadow. When you move, it moves in relation to you and the light around you. A 2D shadow is comprised of 1D lines, with each dimension orthogonal too the one above (at right angles). "This is where you must look at right angles for consciousness above time and law. Law is above time by dimension. Consciousness is above both law and time. Collapsing wave function is how states of matter change, and this cannot be separated from consciousness, which is above the rest of the lower dimensions."

the part in the quotes was where you went from science to pseudo-science. i see how you used legitimate science to disguise the armchair-theory portion. collapsing wave function changes states of matter? and i would be more inclined to agree with the consciousness thing if my observing something caused it to do what i want. a burning cigarette is going to burn regardless of whether or not im there to observe it. so i think you are jumping the gun here.

This is basic science. I'm sorry, but the agent of change cannot be matter. It is, by necessity of the observed dimensions, consciousness. It is not reasonable or logical to suggest that matter is the agent. Evolution claims be the agent. In fact, it is the involution of the Spirit (Conscious observer).

the agent of change is energy, not consciousness. unless you are able to prove that energy is concsiousness, and you will need a hefty defense for that premise.

"Consciousness causes collapse of the wavefunction and thus actively selects the event observed in the future as an agent choosing among the many possibilities physically represented by the probability distribution imbedded in the quantum wavefunction. "

good, now put that in your own words.

you know what, im done. i am done here. counting the days until your third execution EnochWasRight/SuperiorEd/AlephBet. then this site can actually do its job and deny your junk threads.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlephBet

None of your redirection will change the fact that evolution is the go to theory for every secular documentary trying to explain our origin or the origin of a species.

it isnt an ORIGIN theory. its a theory of how life developed from single cell organisms to what we see today. origins are another matter entirely.

Life did not develop from a single cell. Involution of consciousness (Spirit) animates matter by designed complexity. If you take away any one part of that complexity, the early state of the universe (high state of order with low entropy) would have demolished life. Reproduction is the foundation of entropy in information, or keeping the bits of information from degrading over a span of time. Reproduction is a design feature revealing knowledge of the entropy. Desire cannot arise apart from consciousness. Matter has no consciousness. Again, consciousness is above the dimension of time, probability (chaos) and law (order). Basic quantum mechanics demonstrates that the observer is key to the changing states of matter and the collapse of wave function from superposition.

There is no chance you can get around anything I just said. It's solid domains of known science.

Evolution is a result and not a cause, even from simple cell to human intellect. Intellect, reason, knowledge, wisdom and all other domains of consciousness are informed. They come from without. Does matter contain the bits of information necessary to inform itself? Where is the DNA encoding of a seed? Outside the seed? Inside.

Give me one example of coded information outside of animate mater. Give me one example of a governing law inside matter.

Information is inside out. Laws are outside in.

What is between? Matter as a catalyst between the other two.

Explained best by the Hebrew words Father, Mother Son.

Father is Aleph Bet, or letters of creation. Aleph is Strong and Bet is House.

Mother is Aleph (strong) Mem (Water). The catalyst, or Mater (Latin for Mother), or Matrix.

Son is Bet (House) Nun (Seed). The house of seed is the Word, or what letters of programming write.

Better read John 1:1

originally posted by: TzarChasm
you know what, im done. i am done here. counting the days until your third execution EnochWasRight/SuperiorEd/AlephBet. then this site can actually do its job and deny your junk threads.

If the only way to deny this truth is to get rid of me, then you have failed to debate the points of the thread. Truth rises and error sinks. Why not just let nature reveal the truth. Truth sets us free and shines like a light. Darkness flees from light, not the other way around.

a reply to: TzarChasm

the part in the quotes was where you went from science to pseudo-science. i see how you used legitimate science to disguise the armchair-theory portion. collapsing wave function changes states of matter? and i would be more inclined to agree with the consciousness thing if my observing something caused it to do what i want. a burning cigarette is going to burn regardless of whether or not im there to observe it. so i think you are jumping the gun here.

Choice, change and the actions of others. I do not believe there is chance. I instead see it as providence, or God's choice. Law governs our choices. The collapsing of wave function around you is not all from you. You are the dependent quantity in this reality, yet you also have the choice to follow law and change what happens. We overcome the law by abiding in it.

I feel like this parody was made specifically for these threads.




Remember folks.

The infinite potential of your nine dimensional soul already comprehends the mechanics of external reality.

If you can internalize that you are home free.