Will an independant Scotland be part of NATO, UN treatise. Have a Military?

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Soloprotocol

You seem to Cherry Pick the posts you want to respond to, why is that, questions or points being made are to hard to refute?

What will an Independent Scotland do if the Shetland Islands want to remain part of the UK which is a possibility? Where will all your oil revenue come from then?

I will chose whatever post "I" wish to reply too and i wont give you a reason for my choice...Who are you to tell me what i should and shouldn't be replying to.?
As to the rest of your post have you any idea how ludicrous and desperate you sound...The Shetlands are going nowhere.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
Sounds like we'll get Shetland oil cash in the UK pot then, excellent.

...and I hope the continuing UK will strike a hard bargaining position with any independent Scotland, as it does all foreign nations. Once independent, I want the best deal for my country before anyone else's, so you won't see me crying any tears if the more powerful UK screws you over in any deals to come...I expect them to.
That is the nature of being competing foreign nations.

originally posted by: angryhulk
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Soloprotocol, please stop ignoring my posts (page 2) and regarding oil (other thread). I noticed you raised the 'oil issue' on this thread aswell. Will I explain the situation here aswell?

He's also ignoring my requests for an apology for his baseless accusation that just because we both have 'Angry' in our usernames, that somehow means that you're my sock puppet. Or I'm yours. Or something. Whatever - he ignores the posts that are inconvenient to him. Hell, he ignores facts that are inconvenient to him.

Completely agree.

I think Scotland needs to way this decision - heavily. Leaving the UK is a MONUMENTAL decision and there is no going back. Ultimately, I read somewhere that the SNP was tossing around the idea of joining the EU if Scotland achieves independence. I think this is suicide. Especially economically. Hopefully the SNP does not lobby to join the EU politically and economically.

a reply to: Korg Trinity
Completely and utterly wrong the taxation is based on extraction from a countries exclusive economic zone or extended shelf.
90% of the oil is in Scottish waters.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Soloprotocol



You seem to Cherry Pick the posts you want to respond to, why is that, questions or points being made are to hard to refute?



What will an Independent Scotland do if the Shetland Islands want to remain part of the UK which is a possibility? Where will all your oil revenue come from then?

The oil will still be within our territorial waters but Shetland is just deflective talk. Perhaps we will open up the clyde estuary for oil and gas exploration. Who knows, we might even let you keep your subs there but it's going to cost you.

I wouldn't respond to all those posts either. All the usual suspects ganging up with attitude...sad really.

a reply to: flammadraco
Shetland does not have an opt out clause( no idea where you got that from)
Even if it did and stayed in uk it would not get oil as would be classified as island enclave.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Read the facts, Shetland has always preferred it's Norwegian heritage and frowns upon rule from Central belt Scotland.

Most Shetlanders despise the Scottish and consider themselves Norwegian.

bellacaledonia.org.uk...

I suppose it might be argued that Ingham was playing into the Shetlanders’ lingering distaste of Scotland and of Edinburgh in particular. That does exist. In the summer of 2012 I was wandering the old grey castle at Scalloway, once home to the King’s man in Shetland, Sir Patrick Stuart. I came across a bunch of local primary school kids and their teachers one of whom was relating the story of the castle. Her instructions were every time they heard the name Patrick Stuart they were to boo and hiss – which they did with great enthusiasm. It wasn’t much but it was enough to get me thinking.

And I don’t think Bernard Ingham was alone in his enthusiasm for driving a wedge between Shetlanders and the rest of Scotland. There’s good paper evidence that this particular wheeze was popular in the upper reaches of Whitehall and Westminster as a way of both `dishing’ the Nationalists and keeping oil and gas revenues out of the clutches of the Scots. So far as I can see, the first sign of this ploy came from Ingham’s colleague at the DoE, an Under Secretary called Graham Kear.

At the end of April 1975 Kear circulated a report entitled Scottish Devolution and North Sea Oil . While most of it is a run-down of the offshore oil industry the report contains an intriguing political suggestion. In Section 32 Kear points out that `If Scotland and the Orkney and Shetland Islands are both regarded as States, separate from the rest of the United Kingdom, median lines can be drawn to divide the United Kingdom Continental Shelf between, Orkney & Shetland/Scotland and between Scotland/England.’

And in Section 33 he goes on `On this basis 53% of the oil reserves in existing discoveries “belong” to the Orkney/Shetland islands, 46% “belong” to Scotland and the remaining 1% “belong” to England.’ And in section 34 ` The majority of future oil discoveries are expected to be in “Scottish waters” or “Orkney/Shetland waters”.’

In Section 40 of his report Kear conclude that `The paper also demonstrates the importance of the Shetland and Orkney islands: any consideration of the effects of Scottish separation must take into account the possibility of pressure for the separation of the islands from the Scottish mainland.’

Which is the first airing, in black and white at least, that I can find of what became known as `The Shetland Card’. But there’s no doubt the mandarins of Whitehall thought that this was a jolly good idea. Because early in 1977 Anthony Crosland, then Foreign Secretary, wrote to Prime Minister Jim Callaghan to say that some of his civil servants had reported that this was one way to keep the North Sea oil fields out of the hands of the Scots.

The stratagem was exactly as Graham Kear and Bernard Ingham recommended: change the undersea border between Scotland and England so that it ran northeast instead of directly east and then persuade Orcadians and Shetlanders to declare UDI from Scotland and extend their subsea borders to the southeast. Simple! That way the southern oilfields would be English and the rest would go to the Orcadians and the Shetlanders. The Scots would be left with hardly any oil and all the steam would go out of the SNP’s idea of an oil-rich independent Scotland.

Scottish oil is also under attack from the North. In the clearest possible terms, Shetland has indicated that it wants nothing to do with a separately governed Scotland, be it devolved or independent. A resolution in the local council letters last week to all MPs, and a private separation bill in course of preparation, reaffirm this strong desire to stay outside “Scotland”. And, like Scotland itself, the Shetlands has not always been part of the United Kingdom. It came from Norway in 1529 as a dowry to King Malcolm.’ (Which is a bit of a historical howler: it was 1472 and the king was James III.)

Poole goes on `Map Three shows how a median line could be drawn between Scotland and Shetland, based on the equidistance principle of the Geneva Convention. Two thirds of North Sea oil lies unequivocally in Shetland waters. If Shetland gets a chance to separate itself, all the indications are that the Orkneys would as well (Map Four).’

I’ve no doubt that Poole – who I knew as a good journalist – was aware of the Shetland card being trotted out by Bernard Ingham. But to beef it up Poole cited (and at some length) research by John Grant, then a senior lecturer in law at Glasgow University. Grant had examined Scotland’s claim to the North Sea oilfields and decided that Scotland was on shaky legal ground. In the event of any independence negotiations, he argued, the existing maritime `border’ between Scotland and England would be have to be replaced by a line that continued the southwest/northeast line of the land border. Which meant that most of the southern oilfields would fall into English hands. And if the Shetlanders were allowed to extend their maritime border, then….

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Soloprotocol

You seem to Cherry Pick the posts you want to respond to, why is that, questions or points being made are to hard to refute?

What will an Independent Scotland do if the Shetland Islands want to remain part of the UK which is a possibility? Where will all your oil revenue come from then?

I will chose whatever post "I" wish to reply too and i wont give you a reason for my choice...Who are you to tell me what i should and shouldn't be replying to.?
As to the rest of your post have you any idea how ludicrous and desperate you sound...The Shetlands are going nowhere.

At least they are still speaking to you, I have only been a member for 20 hours and they are refusing to speak to me at all.

a reply to: nonspecific

It may be a blessing.

2nd.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
Do you not even understand what you are linking to. This is about how Westminster deliberately tried to manufacture a scare story about Shetlands wanting own independence or stay in UK if Scotland leaves. Its utter bollocks.

That's 5 of you in here having a go at me..
5-1....What is it, Do you all feel more secure in a group?... safety in Numbers maybe?... Hunting in Packs now.?

Two "members" are now following me from thread to thread like a couple of prepubecent groupies after One Direction.

Must have ruffled a few feathers with the mention of Oil..or the lack of it for that matter...

Tick Tock, Tick Tock...

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Soloprotocol

You seem to Cherry Pick the posts you want to respond to, why is that, questions or points being made are to hard to refute?

What will an Independent Scotland do if the Shetland Islands want to remain part of the UK which is a possibility? Where will all your oil revenue come from then?

I will chose whatever post "I" wish to reply too and i wont give you a reason for my choice...Who are you to tell me what i should and shouldn't be replying to.?
As to the rest of your post have you any idea how ludicrous and desperate you sound...The Shetlands are going nowhere.

At least they are still speaking to you, I have only been a member for 20 hours and they are refusing to speak to me at all.

I was seriously tempted to ignore you there just for the hell of it... lol

a reply to: ScepticScot

The facts are the facts.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Angus MacNeil, the SNP’s rural affairs spokesman, told the BBC that both Shetland and Orkney would be permitted to remain part of the UK regardless of the referendum result “if there was a big enough drive for self-determination” among their residents.

If they did not join a separate Scotland, he said the islands would retain control over a “fair fraction” of the North Sea oil and gas that Alex Salmond is relying on to fund public services.

The Western Isles MP was reacting to a submission to the Government’s consultation on the referendum by the MSPs for Shetland and Orkney, who warned the islands could opt to remain part of the UK even if the rest of Scotland votes to separate.

Alternatively, its residents may choose to join a separate Scotland in return for a much larger share of oil and gas revenues from their waters or even declare independence themselves.

Their residents have traditionally been extremely hostile to Scottish independence and preferred Westminster government to that from Holyrood. They were part of Norway, not Scotland, until the late 15th century.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
That's 5 of you in here having a go at me..
5-1....What is it, Do you all feel more secure in a group?... safety in Numbers maybe?... Hunting in Packs now.?

Two "members" are now following me from thread to thread like a couple of prepubecent groupies after One Direction.

Must have ruffled a few feathers with the mention of Oil..or the lack of it for that matter...

Tick Tock, Tick Tock...

By the way, there's still the matter of that apology...

a reply to: Soloprotocol

They would have to drag an apology from my cold dead independent hands.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
I would support a continuing UK striking a cozy deal with Shetland if they overwhelmingly vote no on Thursday.
If it's legal in an international sense then yep go for it I say, not like Scotland could do much about it except whinge.
If Scotland becomes a foreign nation then yes, I support ruthless bargaining if it benefits my country.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Read the facts, Shetland has always preferred it's Norwegian heritage and frowns upon rule from Central belt Scotland.
.

What facts...there are no facts...it's a made up story.

"preferred it's Norwegian heritage and frowns upon rule from Central belt Scotland"... so it would prefer London Rule...??? Seriously!!!

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Soloprotocol

They would have to drag an apology from my cold dead independent hands.

Might get one on Friday, though i'm not sure it will be accepted then.. lol

Tick Tock.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Soloprotocol

You seem to Cherry Pick the posts you want to respond to, why is that, questions or points being made are to hard to refute?

What will an Independent Scotland do if the Shetland Islands want to remain part of the UK which is a possibility? Where will all your oil revenue come from then?

I will chose whatever post "I" wish to reply too and i wont give you a reason for my choice...Who are you to tell me what i should and shouldn't be replying to.?
As to the rest of your post have you any idea how ludicrous and desperate you sound...The Shetlands are going nowhere.

At least they are still speaking to you, I have only been a member for 20 hours and they are refusing to speak to me at all.

I was seriously tempted to ignore you there just for the hell of it... lol

5-2 and since one will not reply to me that makes it 4-2, I can work with those odds.

Also was this not a discussion on Scotlands need for some form of military defence? I am sure there are enough threads on the referendum in general as it is.