Will an independant Scotland be part of NATO, UN treatise. Have a Military?

originally posted by: midicon

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: ScepticScot



I think it was more to do with the fact that I did not fully agree with there agenda and less to do with his place of birth within the United Kingdom.

Sometimes people need to feel superior but the display has the opposite effect. Some just want to argue no matter what. It is not so much an agenda as a display of personality.

Sorry if that came accross wrong It was easier to write agenda than personal opinion on a very important current issue.

a reply to: flammadraco
So is relavent to a referendum on independence in 2014 how?

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: flammadraco
Ehm no its exactly what I have said all along Shetland islands are part of Scotland and there is no demand to change that?
The only link I remember you posting was one to an article about a conspiracy to create the idea that Shetland islanders wanted independence from Scotland. If I gave missed another my apologies and if you could kindly relink.
However I am pretty sure there is no act of parliament giving Shetlands an opt out. Especially not one created 35 years in advance if the actual referendum just in case.

Scotland had a "Devolved Government" referendum in 1979 which was lost and another referendum in 1997 which won. The opt out clause was added to the act in 1979 by parliament.

Actually more people voted for Devolution in 79 than voted against, 51% for--48% against, but what can you do when Westminster throws in a Dodgy, never been heard of 40% rule

a reply to: ScepticScot

Guys, I've not got any beef against Blair being Scottish or Brown. What I was doing was what the YES campaign has tried to do and that is demonise Westminster for all their woes when in fact the two Prime Ministers that actually caused the current mess were Scottish. As said I wanted you to stay part of the UK but I've changed my mind now as to much water under the bridge.

What really has made me angry is the three leaders promising more money to the Scots in the event of a NO vote. I've no issue with the powers being given to Scotland, have a major issue that Wales will be £300 million per annum worse off to subsidise this promise.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: flammadraco
Ehm no its exactly what I have said all along Shetland islands are part of Scotland and there is no demand to change that?
The only link I remember you posting was one to an article about a conspiracy to create the idea that Shetland islanders wanted independence from Scotland. If I gave missed another my apologies and if you could kindly relink.
However I am pretty sure there is no act of parliament giving Shetlands an opt out. Especially not one created 35 years in advance if the actual referendum just in case.

Scotland had a "Devolved Government" referendum in 1979 which was lost and another referendum in 1997 which won. The opt out clause was added to the act in 1979 by parliament.

Actually more people voted for Devolution in 79 than voted against, 51% for--48% against, but what can you do when Westminster throws in a Dodgy, never been heard of 40% rule

Not disputing that, but was pointing out when the opt out clause was added to the act.

a reply to: grainofsand

What benefits your country is to have Trident based where it is. It is going to cost you. Perhaps you will change your mind about that cozy deal. If not we will open up the Clyde for oil exploration.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
If I remember correctly this 40% was based on a electoral register containing a large number of deceased who hadn't been removed making it even harder to achieve. I am in favour if a wide electoral franchise but votes for the dead just goes to far.

originally posted by: grainofsand
I expect my government to negotiate ruthlessly in any legal way it can with another foreign nation.

As i'm sure any citizen of any country in the world would expect their government to do the same...Scotland included.

Shetlands can ask for a referendum...Will they get it...Hmmmmm

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Soloprotocol
If I remember correctly this 40% was based on a electoral register containing a large number of deceased who hadn't been removed making it even harder to achieve. I am in favour if a wide electoral franchise but votes for the dead just goes to far.

Heard that also...My guess would be it to be true.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: flammadraco
So is relavent to a referendum on independence in 2014 how?

Nope, it's still an act of parliament.

a reply to: flammadraco
You seem to have this belief that being anti Westminster is anti English. We want to change the system of government to something fairer and more democratic. Really don't give a flying monkeys where any politicians are born care about what they do.

a reply to: flammadraco
I am sorry but an act saying what exactly. That in 1979 it was made law that in any future referendum in independence Shetlands would get an opt out?? Really?
I think you might be talking out your arse now?

a reply to: midicon
There is support (and even hope) in Portsmouth and Devonport to accomodate the Trident subs, it would boost both economies.
I would prefer taking the financial hit moving home and working in-house than have a foreign country service my weapons.

a reply to: flammadraco
30 seconds research confirms related to 79 devo referendum only. Nothing to do with 2014 referendum.

a reply to: flammadraco

What has annoyed many Scots is the threats if we leave. I just want our own government but relations with the rest of the UK to stay pretty much the same. England too has to somehow get real devolution, if we leave they just might get it.

I see many yes supporters with the wrong attitude, those people are everywhere but it shouldn't change us. If we gain independence then I hope we have open borders and friendship.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Shetlands can ask for a referendum...Will they get it...Hmmmmm

With the backing of a more powerfully established and networked UK yes, I see no reason why they can't if the UK can make our deal a sweeter offer than Scotlands...and I'm sure the UK can.
WTF could foreign Scotland do about it if the UK follows international law?

*Edit*
WTF could foreign Scotland actually do about it if the UK broke international law? (aside from whinge of course)

a reply to: ScepticScot

The SNP’s economic case for independence has been significantly undermined after the party admitted that the oil-rich Northern Isles would be allowed to opt out of joining a separate Scotland.

Angus MacNeil, the SNP’s rural affairs spokesman, told the BBC that both Shetland and Orkney would be permitted to remain part of the UK regardless of the referendum result “if there was a big enough drive for self-determination” among their residents.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Shetlands can ask for a referendum...Will they get it...Hmmmmm

With the backing of a more powerfully established and networked UK yes, I see no reason why they can't if the UK can make our deal a sweeter offer than Scotlands...and I'm sure the UK can.
WTF could foreign Scotland do about it if the UK follows international law?

So if say Tasmania asked for a referendum to join the UK Australia would allow it.

a reply to: grainofsand
I don't think there is any demand in the Shetlands to leave Scotland. While the vote might be more no to Scotland leaving the UK that is not the same as wanting to leave Scotland if it does.

a reply to: flammadraco
Which bit of "big enough drive for self determination" isn't clear?