BREAKING:Ukraine adopts law on self-rule for separatist east & ratify EU Association Agreement

BREAKING:Ukraine adopts law on self-rule for separatist east

The Ukrainian parliament on Tuesday adopted legislation giving the separatist east limited self-rule under government proposals aimed at ending a deadly insurgency, lawmakers said.

MPs also passed a law granting amnesty to fighters on both sides in the five-month conflict between Ukrainian government forces and pro-Russian rebels.

Ukraine to ratify EU Association Agreement

The Ukrainian parliament is set to ratify an association agreement with the EU, creating closer ties between Ukraine and the bloc. Implementation of the new deal will likely take some time.

The ratification Tuesday of the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement is certain to receive strong support in Kyiv and Strasbourg. Ukrainian President Poroshenko has called the pact a "de facto" reform program for Ukraine as it creates a free-trade environment with the European Union.

In simultaneous ceremonies, the documents are to be signed in Kyiv and in Strasbourg by Ukrainian and EU officials, respectively.

However, the pact will not be implemented until the end of 2015 due to protests from Russia, a country that also has a free trade agreement with Ukraine but does not have one with the EU. Russian officials fear that the Russian market would be flooded with goods from the EU, and have attempted to insert amendments to the agreement that would prevent this.

Additional sources and information ...
Ukraine offers rebels self-rule, to ratify EU pact

Lawmakers said 277 deputies backed the disputed measure in the 450-seat Verkhovna Rada chamber.
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The legislation also crucially guarantees the right for Russian to be spoken in all state institutions – a particularly sensitive issue in the war zone.

The broad-ranging political proposals allow local legislatures in rebel-held regions to set up their own police forces and name judges and prosecutors.

Snap local polls on December 7 will establish new councils in the areas in Ukraine's vital coal and steel belt that will seemingly not be accountable to Kiev in any way.

A separate law passed in the same closed-door hearing protects from criminal prosecution "participants of events in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions" – a measure that appears to apply to both the insurgents and Ukrainian government troops.
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Yet the broader autonomy offer appears to have done little to sate insurgency leaders who want membership in Novorossiya – a charged term Putin uses to describe a tsarist Russia that incorporated parts of Ukraine.

Ukraine's Poroshenko Presents Agreement In Parliament, Offering Rebels Limited Self Rule

The 1,200-page agreement will also offer guarantees like the right for Russian to be spoken in all state institutions and local legislation for the creation of independent law enforcement

This is in spite of

renewed clashes that killed four civilians Monday heaped further pressure on a fragile truce in the bloody five-month war and raised new questions about whether President Petro Poroshenko (pic) will succeed in keeping his splintered country together.
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Clashes continued near Donetsk’s international airport, held by the government, after two of the city’s northern neighborhoods were heavily shelled over the weekend. On Monday, Kiev and rebel forces exchanged 73 soldiers from each side in the largest prisoner exchange so far in the conflict. However, the violence reportedly continued with blasts reported from the direction of the airport while gunfire continued in the region, Associated Press, or AP, reported citing local officials.

It will be interesting if and how this law holds, especially considering clashes still continuing despite the fresh agreement and the recent cease fire. As expected with this administration it appears on one hand we Kiev is leaning and going toward the West and EU while on the other hand allowing its eastern region, or "New Russia" as proclaimed by separatists, to have self-rule with a great amount of ties with Russia. I do not see this lasting, either the Civil War will continue, will erupt again in a short amount of time, or "New Russia" will become its own country or completely join Russia. A country aligned in two vastly different philosophies is not one that will remain one nation.

They are quite desperate on joining the EU. At least this winter they will be feeling a little cold.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

It will be interesting if and how this law holds, especially considering clashes still continuing despite the fresh agreement and the recent cease fire.

This legislation is meaningless unless the separatists agree to it. They will not.

As expected with this administration it appears on one hand we Kiev is leaning and going toward the West and EU while on the other hand allowing its eastern region, or "New Russia" as proclaimed by separatists, to have self-rule with a great amount of ties with Russia.

They are not going to be allowed "self rule," and their ties to Russia will need to be authorized by Kyiv. The Parliament is essentially offering the "federal system" that western apologists for the separatists claim is their objective. The separatists are not interested in federalism, they want an independent state over which they have absolute control.

I do not see this lasting, either the Civil War will continue, will erupt again in a short amount of time, or "New Russia" will become its own country or completely join Russia. A country aligned in two vastly different philosophies is not one that will remain one nation.

I do not see this even starting. Either the rebellion will be quashed, or Russia will invade more openly. If Russia does that, NATO will be justified in assisting Kyiv. The best outcome at this point would be for the Ukrainian bandits and Russian mercenaries to grab what they can and head for Russian soil.

a reply to: DJW001
I don't think we are really in disagreement on the matter. Where you were very clear and blunt, I was more ambiguous and implied with my language - primarily to get the post out quickly. Although I will say I think Kiev's move is more political, geared toward showing the international arena that they tried and made effort. Will the separatists latch on to the deal? Hard to say, but I understand and am kind of with your point of view. However, if they were smart and thinking strategically, it would be a legitimate step toward legitimate statehood, especially if they make an agreement and Kiev does not live up to their end of the bargain while the separatists do.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

If the separatists do agree to the proposal, it will be because Russia forces them to by withdrawing all aid. This is a possibility if Russia fears NATO intervention enough.

a reply to: DJW001
I'm not sure I agree with that point, though if whatever aid Russia is providing were stopped it definitely would force the separatists hand. Like I said, if intellect and strategic thinking are present, you might see them agree to the deal.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

If the separatists do agree to the proposal, it will be because Russia forces them to by withdrawing all aid. This is a possibility if Russia fears NATO intervention enough.

The proposal to please just join the EU? Isn't that what this is all about?

They don't want to belong to NATO or Russia either. Thats what the referendum was all about. It didn't say they want to (Bwah Wah-- go back to Russia), it said we don't want to be party to the Coup that occurred in Kiev in February.

They don't like the tire burners apparently. Bombing them and then proposing membership to them is laughable. I suppose they hope they will submit having been bombed and shelled into it.

As far as belonging to the EU there are referendums currently on the table in Scotland, Spain and other EU Austerity members as well.

Seems they don't like the EU or the NATO alliance either.

a reply to: intrptr

The proposal to please just join the EU? Isn't that what this is all about?

Please read the OP before responding.

They don't want to belong to NATO or Russia either. Thats what the referendum was all about. It didn't say they want to (Bwah Wah-- go back to Russia), it said we don't want to be party to the Coup that occurred in Kiev in February.

The separatists have mixed motives and objectives. Some want to set up their own "banana republics." Others are Russian agents with the goal of annexing eastern Ukraine back into the Russian Federation. When the time comes, the so-called "referendum" will be irrelevant. Either eastern Ukraine will rejoin Kyiv in a federalist system, or it will be annexed by Russia.

They don't like the tire burners apparently. Bombing them and then proposing membership to them is laughable. I suppose they hope they will submit having been bombed and shelled into it.

The separatists have burned their share of tires. They have also done their share of bombing, killing and looting. The average Ukrainian, even the Russian speaking ones, just want it all to stop.

As far as belonging to the EU there are referendums currently on the table in Scotland, Spain and other EU Austerity members as well.

You have jumbled things up a bit. Neither Scotland nor Spain is holding a referendum to leave the EU. Scotland may leave the UK, and Spain has a relatively wealthy province, Catalonia, that has long wanted to separate.

Seems they don't like the EU or the NATO alliance either.

Seriously? Scotland is counting on joining the EU if it separates from the UK. I think you need to review current events before you embarrass yourself further.

a reply to: intrptr
Ummm, what DJ said.
...

a reply to: DJW001

Banana Republic is a term used to describe countries in South America that were "annexed" by American corporations (see Chiquita). The growers and pickers were paid little and the American corporations reaped the profits.

Slave labor and subjugation by poverty.

The people in East Ukraine just want self determination. You keep spinning that any way you want, that is the bottom line.

They want to be free.

a reply to: DJW001

Seriously? Scotland is counting on joining the EU if it separates from the UK. I think you need to review current events before you embarrass yourself further.

Wishful thinking on your part.

a reply to: intrptr

Banana Republic is a term used to describe countries in South America that were "annexed" by American corporations (see Chiquita). The growers and pickers were paid little and the American corporations reaped the profits.

Slave labor and subjugation by poverty.

That is the origin of the term. More generally, it applies to small, corrupt nations ruled by a dictator.

The people in East Ukraine just want self determination. You keep spinning that any way you want, that is the bottom line.

Which people in eastern Ukraine? The Russian speaking Ukrainians or the Russians who form the backbone of the separatist forces?

They want to be free.

No. Some of them want to sell out to the Russians, some of them want to be Presidente Generalissimo for life, and most of them just want to be left alone. If you think being annexed by Russia leads to freedom, you are mad.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: DJW001

Seriously? Scotland is counting on joining the EU if it separates from the UK. I think you need to review current events before you embarrass yourself further.

Wishful thinking on your part.

Another contributor who needs to read a newspaper once in a while. Here, from the horse's mouth:

www.yesscotland.net...

a reply to: DJW001

Seriously? Scotland is counting on joining the EU if it separates from the UK.

The people aren't counting on that no matter what the mainstream says about it. Thats why they are separating. To get out from the yoke of any other overseers.

Yes, join the wonderful EU. Have your currency and self determination deleted. Get forever saddled with foreign debt and foreign wars under the terms of Austerity. Become a NATO member and have foreign troops on your soil forever. Make your country even poorer and a military target.

Bah.

They will be free.

a reply to: DJW001

More generally, it applies to small, corrupt nations ruled by a dictator.

Thats one modern definition. Thats what the referendum In eastern Ukraine was adopted there for.

To separate from the dictatorship in Kiev.

a reply to: intrptr

The people aren't counting on that no matter what the mainstream says about it. Thats why they are separating. To get out from the yoke of any other overseers.

You have amply demonstrated you know even less about events in Scotland than you do Ukraine. The referendum will probably fail because creating an independent Scotland would be too much of a hassle. It would take precious time away from watching football and hanging out at the pub.

a reply to: DJW001

The referendum will probably fail because creating an independent Scotland would be too much of a hassle.

Yes, freedom is such a hassle. Not as much hassle as slavery, though.

You're right, too. UK will never actually allow it. They are just letting them go through the moves. The last time someone tried separating from the Queen they got invaded and bombed.

See the Falkland "War".

a reply to: intrptr

Yes, freedom is such a hassle. Not as much hassle as slavery, though.

I am beginning to wonder if you understand the difference between "freedom" and "independence." Many former colonies were granted their independence, but the under the new governments the people were less free.

You're right, too. UK will never actually allow it. They are just letting them go through the moves. The last time someone tried separating from the Queen they got invaded and bombed.

Britain devolved most of its colonies peacefully. Some of them, like Hong Kong, didn't want to go!

See the Falkland "War".

Wow. Are you under the impression that the war between Britain and Argentina over the rights to drill for gas off the Falkland Islands was an attempt to quell a bid for independece? Seriously?

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

The problem though are the rebels and their stance on this treaty. They are refusing to comply with several points of the cease fire, like giving up heavy weapons, disbanding militia groups, sending foreigners home and most importantly refusing to give up border control points with Russia.

Why agree to the cease fire if you have no intentions of following thru on it?

a reply to: DJW001

Are you under the impression that the war between Britain and Argentina over the rights to drill for gas off the Falkland Islands was an attempt to quell a bid for independece? Seriously?

You called it a war just then, too.

Like the war on terror. Yes, Argentina wanted to free the Falkland Islands from the Queen. Call that whatever you will, it remains a vital strategic choke point, just Like the Rock of Gibraltar. And under UK dominance.