Abbas turns down Egypt offer of “Palestinian” state in Sinai

originally posted by: thov420

How about the US government just keep their noses out of everybody else's business?

What happens in the Middle East and with Israel is our business. Pull out of the world, retract into the continental US and cut off all communications and involvement in worldly affairs? Bad idea. For lots of reasons.

Oh wait, the US government doesn't speak for all US citizens.

If they did, politicians would be voted in unanimously.

I'm not a fan of any government

Clearly.

but I would still fight for my land against foreign invaders.

That fight is over and they lost. The native Americans lost their fight too, but you don't see them futilely firing rockets towards Washington DC despite their loss.

If those Indians want to come fight for their land back I wouldn't like it

Thanks for being honest.

Your side of the argument just doesn't logically hold up. Too much emotion and too little rationality.

originally posted by: thov420
Imagine that, offered a piece of land that isn't your homeland and saying no? How about Israel give the Palestinians their own homeland, I bet they would say yes. Being from MN, If I was forced out and given a piece of WI or IA and told to accept it or die I know what my choice would be. F off, period. How about we let them have their own land instead of trying to appease them with others land?

Maybe you ought to give your state back to the Native Americans that you stole it from. How would that suit your righteous attitude?

I mean, if you want to bring up the fact that 60 years ago, the Palestinians lost their land to the Jews, and use that as justification for their acts of terrorism 60 years later, you should also go back even further to the fact that 2500 years ago, the Jews were exiled from the land that they occupied from a peaceful social transformation of the Canaanites.

So, bringing up the past as justification for aggression becomes a logical fallacy when you take into account that the Jews occupied Israel long before the Palestinians.

As you can plainly see, this is about the destruction of Jews due to nothing but antisemitism. As you can plainly see, if it was about land, they would take the land that is being offered to them.

It doesn't matter what you all think though. With America's support for Israel, at the end of the day, what I want the outcome to be and what is the right thing will be the outcome. Israel will live and the Palestinian terrorist will be destroyed and for that, I am glad. So whine your hearts out.

“The first person who, having enclosed a plot of land, took it into his head to say this is mine and found people simple enough to believe him was the true founder of civil society. What crimes, wars, murders, what miseries and horrors would the human race have been spared, had some one pulled up the stakes or filled in the ditch and cried out to his fellow men: "Do not listen to this impostor. You are lost if you forget that the fruits of the earth belong to all and the earth to no one!” --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

a reply to: smithjustinb

You wouldn't? If someone took my home and the home of everyone I knew.. I think I would hold a grudge my entire life. Some of the people might not, but of course many will and are justified in it.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: smithjustinb

You think the people born during the turmoil aren't alive? From 47 to 67? I assure you many of them are, and the ones that arent, well it was there kids and grandkids homes that were stolen.

You would be okay with someone taking your home away from your family? Your kids and grandkids?

Israel NEVER took anyone's home away unless they were TERRORIST!

There are tons of Arabs living inside Israel as we speak, even the family of Hamas's leader. If you ever stopped smoking weed and went to visit Israel you would see how bad the Jews want this fight to stop. Just because the Arabs took the land from the Jews and then made them slaves gives the Arabs no dam right to lay claim to Israel. Not one dam bit. The UN seemed to think the same thing in 1948 and even gave the Arabs the whole country of Jordan at the same time.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Seriously, you don't. You need to do some research. They took thousands of homes and transplanted the people. None of them were terrorists.

Also I don't smoke.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

It's like you really want to drive your ignorance home, but I guess I will school you.

Genocide "Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group via the (a) Killing of members of the group; (b) Causing of serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberate inflicting on the group's conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing of measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (e) Forcible transferring of children of the group to another group. Genocide entails also the Conspiracy to commit genocide; Direct and public incitement to commit genocide; Attempt to commit genocide; and Complicity in genocide. .[1] What constitutes enough of a "part" to qualify as genocide has been subject to much debate by legal scholars."

So forcing the majority of Palestinians into small pieces of land and refusing them the means to grow as a people, as well as taking more of their land and every few years killing a few thousand. That is pretty much the definition of genocide. The Palestinians have been put in a situation where they will shrink as a people and in a hundred years they probably wont exist anymore (maybe a few will remember being born there).

You don't know what genocide is. I guess you think it has to be a quick round up and killing of a group of people.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: smithjustinb

You wouldn't? If someone took my home and the home of everyone I knew.. I think I would hold a grudge my entire life. Some of the people might not, but of course many will and are justified in it.

So the Native Americans should start shelling American cities?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: JiggyPotamus The jews were all moving together and this deal seemed to just give the palestinians more land if they unarmed themselves. It is not the same.

However as the other member came in and pointed out the part of the deal that includes no weapons that does pose a valid reason to reject the offer but i would still take it because land aint cheap and there is no doubt that strength can come through growth.

Oh, I see now. My mistake. I was obviously thinking of a Palestinian state AWAY from the area altogether. I cannot believe I missed the boat on this one that badly. If they are guaranteed autonomy then I would probably take it if I were them. But Hamas is the biggest obstacle. If I were the Palestinians I would ask Israel for help in ridding themselves of Hamas, as long as Israel could help without killing innocent civilians. It is in the best interest of Israel and the Palestinian people to do away with Hamas. I believe that most Palestinians would be happy if they could live in peace, both from Israel and Hamas. But I know there are many of them who likely support Hamas as well. I cannot say they are 100% wrong for doing so, considering how they likely view the situation, and neither is Israel right in their response much of the time. But as we all know, peace will not be had with Hamas running the show. The people should rise up against them if they hope to have any peace whatsoever. So in this instance if you want peace you will have to fight. There are other problems, but those stand out.

a reply to: guitarplayer

Would they have been justified.. yes. This is a little more contemporary don't you think?

Also.. I wouldn't be as dramatic as to say they are shelling their cities, but whatever floats your boat.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

I guess rockets are not shelling? who'd of thunk

a reply to: guitarplayer

Not really.

Nor are they really on their cities.

Either way most of the rocket attacks follow a provocation by Israel as with the most recent incident. There are a few militant groups that are not part of Hamas that cause trouble with rockets, but they deserve police action, not indiscriminate bombing from one of the worlds most advanced military.

I guess if some radicals in Ohio started shooting rockets at Illinois you would be cool with the US gov bombing Columbus and Cincinnati indiscriminately, killing civilians. Or did you forget that Palestine and Israel aren't really two nations?

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: guitarplayer

Would they have been justified.. yes.

Well then since time between when they owned it and how long they've been without it is not a factor, then the Israelis were justified in the 1940s when they declared Israel a Jewish state. Now try to justify your position without contradicting yourself.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: guitarplayer

Also.. I wouldn't be as dramatic as to say they are shelling their cities, but whatever floats your boat.

Well. That's what your friends at Hamas do to Israel. So why not?

originally posted by: thov420
You know if this was still the 1800's you might have a point, but it's not. If those Indians want to come fight for their land back I wouldn't like it but I sure wouldn't hold it against them.

Then, why hold it against the Israelis, who, by the way, were the only people to ever occupy that land without conquering it?

I mean, if you think the Native Americans would be justified if they decided to take America back, how were the Jews not justified for taking Israel back? They both had not had their land for a long period of time. So what's up now?

originally posted by: smithjustinb
Then, why hold it against the Israelis, who, by the way, were the only people to ever occupy that land without conquering it?

DID YOU NOT READ THE BIBLE?!!! The Hebrews exterminated the Canaanites!! Deuteronomy, Judges, Joshua, they all document the Hebrews exterminating innocent people!!

Deuteronomy 20:16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes

originally posted by: Ridhya

originally posted by: smithjustinb
Then, why hold it against the Israelis, who, by the way, were the only people to ever occupy that land without conquering it?

DID YOU NOT READ THE BIBLE?!!! The Hebrews exterminated the Canaanites!!

Despite what the Bible says, the archaeological evidence suggests what I said. I prefer to use a scientific source than a religious source in these matters.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: samsamm9

A small percentage of the so called 'palestinians' are descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries.... the rest are just like Mr Spad explained, they are basically descendants of refugees.

Its funny how the only argument anti-zionists end up leaning on is the claim that Jews aren't Jews... lol... and they claim they are not anti-semitic. Laughable.

Know what is laughable? You pull the Anti-Semite trick out yet Palestinians are likely more Semite than most Jews in Israel.

Yep, the old "get out Gaza" trick again. Of course, it's not that the Israelis, mainly European Jews with no ethnic claim to anything in the region, want them gone to make it easier to get at the gas deposits off the Palestinian coast!

The state of Israel as it is today was created through brutal terrorism, carried on through the decades to the present day, where they still dispossess the non-Jewish population, beat and murder them on a whim, because they can.

Any other country with such a history of terrorism would have been invaded and it's leaders put on trial for crimes against humanity long ago, were it not for their infiltration and huge influence over our own leaders.
Says it all really when anyone in public office, or teaching, media etc, can lose their jobs simply for criticizing the Israeli actions.
All this despite the howls of anti-semitism every time someone points out the bloody obvious! Despite protestations to the contrary, the fact remains, and is so in your face it's impossible to miss, that they control our own governments, who are spineless and powerless (why?) to speak out or oppose them.

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Shows you how much they want peace and that they only want the destruction of the Jews.

Yes, that has to be it.

Nothing at all to do with having their country stolen from beneath their feet, and having the remaining parcels of land bombed into rubble every few years.

How about we give up England to the Israelis and we in England all relocate to the Isle of Wight and like it?

Doesn't quite sound so good when it's us does it.