It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


The Crucifixion, Did Jesus really have to die?

page: 1
<<   2  3 >>

log in


posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 02:36 PM
The cross
What significance, if any, is there in the death and resurrection of one man.

1. Moses OT profits and Zohar
2. Jesus and the Apostles
3. Mohammed
5. The Vedas
6. The bhagavad Gita
7. Buddah
8. The Tibeten book of the dead
9. Confucius
11. Sikhism
12. Native American Spirituality
13. Plato
And I'm sure their are more texts

All of these texts teach the same message at the core.

1.God loves you like a forgiving, loving, merciful father.

2. There is a Holy Spirit or light within all men guiding them to love and virtue.

3. God has favor on those who obey the Holy Spirit and he punishes those who disobey. And all will return where they came from and give account.

If it is possible by all the texts to believe in God's love and forgiveness that is given to those who pursue love and truth by their thoughts and actions?

And one can also find the Holy Spirit in every text and within themselves?

Then why did Jesus Christ sacrifice himself on the cross? Why must we believe that?

Although every text promises love to those who pursue love. Only Jesus Christ promises to save anyone from their sins so long as they follow him, and the resurrection proves his right to forgive all.

How does the sinner follow Christ, by laying his life down for his brothers, who are all mankind. It is by sacrificing one's life that one can become justified by the Holy Spirit.

You see all the texts lay out a path to personal salvation, which is enlightenment.

But Jesus Christ laid down the path to perfect enlightenment. That of true sonship. To lay down your life for the world like JFK and MLK.

They should be considered living son's of God. Because by their faith they sacrificed their lives for all mankind, they found eternal life.

Does JFK'S affair diminish his sonship? Not at all, the message was faith in the perfect Holy Spirit, to become like Christ. Well he was not perfect but through his sacrifice he became justified, and did become like Christ.

I am willing to sacrifice myself for all mankind, are you also a son?

Since Jesus Christ is the only one of the prophets who claimed to be the light, we should believe him. He is the light of all the religious texts.

And his was the only message that comes with a physical promise. Without the physical promise it could just as easily be argued that all these men were insane and that there is no Holy Spirit.

But the religious texts were not written by insane men but by men full of the Holy Spirit, who is the light of this world.

All the texts agree love is the path to perfection.

No Jesus did not have to die. He wanted to lay his life down to show us the love of God and true sonship. Only a son has the faith to lay his life down. I am willing, I am a son. Again I ask are you?

John10: 17-18 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

No one can make you give up your life for the love of mankind, you must believe in Christ and your own resurrection. Then you can follow the perfect spirit that cries Abba, Father.

May all mankind be united by the Holy Spirit. Amen

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 02:48 PM
I have a been a follower of Jesus since I can remember. What I've learned is:







By Matthew Kalman USA TODAY

Quote from Professor Ze'ev Herzog of Tel Aviv University

NOTE: Professor Herzogs quotes---Mine in gray


"The many Egyptian documents known to us do not make any reference to the sojourn of the Children of Israel in Egypt or the events of Exodus.

This is coming from a University right in the middle of Israel, and they say that the Egyptian documents dating back ages make no mention of the exodus.

Generations of scholars tried to locate Mount Sinai and the stations of the tribes of Israel in the desert. Despite all this diligent research, not one site was identified that could correspond to the Biblical picture.

Generations of scholars have not been able to find one site identified in the Bible.

An Israeli archeologist is drawing fire for claiming that the biblical history of the Jewish people is probably fiction.

Consider the courage this archeologist has for saying the truth, right in the middle of Israel.

In an article in Ha'aretz newspaper, Ze'ev Herzog a professor at Tel Aviv University argued that the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt probably never happened, the Ten Commandments were not given on Mt Sinai and Joshua never conquered the land of Israel.

So there are three big Biblical stories that you have read about all your life, that a university in Israel says never happened.

Herzog says there is no evidence that Joshua led the children of Israel into the Holy Land or brought down the walls of Jericho.

Repeated excavations by various expeditions have only yielded disappointments he says.

During the period when the conquest would have taken place, there were no cities there and of course no walls to bring down.

Consider that.

Joshua could not have knocked down the walls of Jericho because there was no Jericho there at the time, and no walls.

Herzog has been criticized by religious leaders and is surprised at the criticism.

I don't think it is right to guess at motives based on the results of scientific inquiry he says. Archaeology has always been used in this society and used to point in one direction, (to prove the Bible), now I'm suggesting that perhaps it should be used to point in another direction.

What professor Herzog says here is that archeology can also be used to prove that the things in the Bible never happened.

They are symbolic, just as the Bible says.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 02:53 PM
a reply to: knightsofcydonia

Really, all that with no links. Nothing just a rant. Why don't you try that again or stop trolling.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:07 PM
Yes he did have to die, and his death was incredibly significant. He understood the curse of the duality paradigm that enslaves us all, he understood Saturn's law, and thus died on an unfolded cube (The cube is a symbol of Saturn/Hell, look up avici in Buddhism etc) to symbolise the liberation of human consciousness and the breaking free of the cube (Saturn's law) his a reply to: sacgamer25

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:07 PM


There is a record of the Bible itself telling us not to take any of this literally.

There is record of the Bible itself telling us that all of this stuff, is parable, proverb, allegory and dark sayings.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter but of the spirit, for the letter kills but the spirit gives life.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit , not in the letter.

The Bible itself telling us that these things are not literal.

They did not happen.

They are mythical

They are symbolic stories that mean something else.a reply to: sacgamer25

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:10 PM


The crucifixion of Jesus is an astronomical fact.

The story is written around the fact that on December 21st, Gods only Sun falls toward the constellation "Crux" (The Southern Cross).

This is the shortest day of the year.


Then for the next three days the Sun is entombed in the bowels of the earth in the winter solstice.




Notice how the Bible follows this.

At the time of the crucifixion of Jesus it says in Mark 15:33, "and there was darkness over the whole land until the 9th hour."

The sun had died, there was an eclipse.

a reply to: sacgamer25

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:15 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

well crucifiction was the typical way a person was killed in those days.... thousands of People were killed in this way and the alarming thing about it is that, People in those times were cheering and happy watching it... lining the streets.

yanno, same mentality as the Romans had of throwing the babies to lions and People thought that was 'entertaining'.

as for the resurrection... well maybe we are all ghosts? And then we appear again and again and again and again and again ... LOL

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:41 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

Dude, I don't know if we're supposed to be talking about that...

Do you fully understand what you're talking about? Was Paul not bound?

Colossians 4:3 and Acts 28

Thread carefully, please. Nervous lol.

Colossians 1:26
Colossians 1:27
edit on 8/24/2014 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:03 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25
From my understanding Jesus was preaching against a corrupt form of Judaism, ie money changers in the temple. This upset the Jewish leaders which in turn they appealed to the Roman governor to quell the insurrection.
So yes, historically speaking Jesus had to be put to death because the Jewish leaders didn't like that he was drawing people away from their form of Judaism

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:18 PM

originally posted by: knightsofcydonia


There is a record of the Bible itself telling us not to take any of this literally.

There is record of the Bible itself telling us that all of this stuff, is parable, proverb, allegory and dark sayings.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter but of the spirit, for the letter kills but the spirit gives life.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit , not in the letter.

The Bible itself telling us that these things are not literal.

They did not happen.

They are mythical

They are symbolic stories that mean something else.a reply to: sacgamer25

So you writing in all caps makes it true?

You are not only wrong but your sales tactic in trying to sell this lie is funny. Maybe you should get a metal pipe and start beating Christians for believing in something that you disagree with.

edit on 24-8-2014 by Jesuslives4u because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:32 PM
I guess the bigger question should be did Jesus ever exist. I'm not religious in any way but I do like the fact that the message of Jesus still exists. Kind of like a universal message of love that the establishment (and lady gaga)(the puppet) likes to try and stamp on,(with her symbols) and I don't mean kasabien(the band) I mean symbols. What else can I get away with?

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:20 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

The Crucifixion, Did Jesus really have to die?

There is a good case that Jesus actually didn't die on the cross. In fact it is claimed he lived and had a family and lived in france.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:25 PM
a reply to: olaru12

I have heard of many claims against it. But you see this is God's creation, and to God the sacrifice of the flesh of his son was a way of promising salvation to all those who repent.

So although Jesus could have disobey, having free will, but instead he sacrificed his flesh for the love of his brothers. He did God's will perfectly.

So, since he did die and was resurrected it could also be claimed that he had to because he loved God, his father, and all of his brothers and sisters.

Only love is worth dying for, only love is worth living for.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:28 PM

originally posted by: knightsofcydonia
I have a been a follower of Jesus since I can remember. What I've learned is:

Can't recall archeology ever speaking the truth...

If archeology 'proves' something, I'm going to believe just the opposite.

Archeology is nothing but fraud masquerading as "Science" and is lying to us about the REAL history of this world.

"The model of human prehistory built-up by scholars over the past two centuries is sadly and completely wrong, and a deliberate tool of disinformation and mind control. ...they demonstrate a systematic destruction of proofs that show another reality than that the official story. Falsifications and even destruction of such proofs has been common for more than two hundred years." LINK

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:29 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

Sin creates negative. Good deeds create positive. Combined, our sin outweighs the good we can do to counteract the imbalance. The only way to walk the debt back is in multiples of negative.

Let's say you owe me $30. You are required to give me what is owed. I am also -30 until paid back. You do work to build positive and walk your debt back to zero by deducting 30 from your surplus. We are even. The problem with sin is that the debt cannot be walked back apart from a multiplier. Your negative sin is multiplied against the negative Jesus suffered on the cross. Two negatives multiplied make a positive. He paid the debt for you. This can only be done with multipliers.

A second reason is simple. Jesus was Adam. The error came through the Alpha. This required the Omega to pay the debt. Jesus was the last Adam. He paid the debt he generated.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.”

The root of the trouble lies in him (Redeemer).

Adam is the root of the trouble, as Jesus is the payment for the debt caused.

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

It was a gift, but also required of the one that caused the debt in the first place. The Son of God, in my opinion, was a prodigal. He returned home. So will we.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:30 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

I will simply repeat what I have told you before:

If the message of a prophet does not teach that salvation comes by FAITH IN JESUS' PAYMENT FOR OUR SINS, the prophet is FALSE and is commiting BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT.

That pretty much sums up my opinion.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:34 PM
a reply to: olaru12

No one in the academic world has ever taken Acharya S. seriously...

Why are you so easily convinced by frauds like Acharya?

Her Zeitgeist disinfo is widely known to be blatantly false information

Acharya has NO credibility and her horus, mitthra, Buddha, and Khrisna myth stories are complete fabrications.

Her sources are false and misrepresented and there isn't a shred of etymological, linguistic, archaeological, literary, or historical evidence for these wild assertions.

Internet movies like Zeitgeist are Illuminati-driven propaganda vehicles to suck people into believing that Christ never existed. How can you be so addled brain that you would simply capitulate to such rank disinformation and historical revisionism that Acharya and her ilk have so blatantly employed? I thought you were suppose to be a guy who could see THROUGH Illuminati-sponsored deceptions?

PS. The other 'saviors' with the same "stats" is not quite accurate. The same "stats" about Mithra etc. were mostly contorted and massaged into existence by revisionist frauds of the Acharya breed.


Time after time the author makes extraordinary claims with no references to back them up other than previous authors of the same genre. For example, she quotes an author named Martin Larson from a book written in 1977. He claims that early church fathers such as Jerome, Antony and Martin were definitely psychotic.

From this, the author draws the following conclusion, and I quote "Thus, deceiving, mentally ill individuals basically constitute the genesis of Christianity." Now, I ask the reader, is this research or is this a sentence from an author whose conclusion was drawn before the book was even begun. She uses no references or historical data to back up the claim.... Amazon

Follow her sources please. How did the comparison with the mystery religions start? Did it start by the Jewish scholars who lived at the same time and would have known about these religions and were themselves trying to discredit Jesus? No, it started with an Islamic writer named Yousuf Saleem Chishti, in his book, What is Christianity? ... Where did he get this information? No one knows, he listed no sources, and none have been found.

However that didn't stop a writer in the late 1800s and early 1900s named Gerald Massey from using Chishti as his source for the same information. Who is Acharya using as her source for most of her material? Massey, who used Chishti.

Amazon: The Christ Conspiracy

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 06:14 PM
a reply to: sacgamer25

The ten commandments were probably made by freemasonry, as they were etched into stone.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 06:25 PM
Yes he had to be killed. He was criminal and ramble rouser who upset the wrong people (money lenders). And as history shows, you don't upset the people who handle money. It's no surprise that he was arrested, tried and executed.

posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 06:29 PM
I'm sorry you see it that way. By no means is it a sales tactic. It's information that I think is very interesting, so take it or leave it. I'll agree that even though he did not physically exist, the story of Jesus has certainly affected our existence for the last couple thousand years. The Bible is basically a guide to Cosmic Psychology in my opinion.
The Old Testament, and the New Testament, were written in Alexandria Egypt
under direction of the Greek Ptolomies.

They incorporated into the Bible the works of the classic Greek minds that
actually set the foundation for civilizations move into the realm of philosophy and science.


Information about the atom was first put forth by Democritus in 460bc

Democritus developed the idea of atoms.
He called basic matter particles , atoms.

We are talking about Greek teachers, whose influence was incorporated into the
Bible by those who composed it in Alexandria Egypt under the Greek Ptolomies.

That is how science which was then covered in mythology by symbols,
finds its way into the scriptures.

We have the first discussion of atoms presented by the Greek Democritus in 460bc.

That suggests why it is reasonable to consider that the story of the first man Adam
and the first woman Eve are actually symbols of atoms developed through nuclear fission
as an ionic bond .

Removing an electron from one atom and putting it into another, produces
positive and negative ions.

Positive/Negative Male/Female

So now when we consider how the teachings of classic Greek science
were incorporated into the Bible, and when we consider light/photon
and the Bible saying God is light:

It is not difficult to see where that came from and how it got into
the Greek Bible

The Bible was written in Alexandria Egypt under Greek direction.

It was written in the Greek language, by those practicing
the composition of mythology.

Utilizing the Greek understanding of science in ancient times,
we found the story of Adam and Eve
as the story of nuclear fission, and ionic bonding,
with the source of the information being Democritus.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

new topics

top topics

<<   2  3 >>

log in