I am not for a nuclear exchange with anyone. If, on the other hand this was brought about by an WMD attack on my country then we would be within our rights as a soverign nation to retaliate.

So if we were attacked in N.Y., Chicago, Los Angeles or any city with a huge population which could result in millions of INNOCENT deaths how would we respond. If we were to assume that it was only a one-time attack how would you retaliate in a proportional way? The only way to do this is with the same type of weapon used on us. Nuke for nuke, gas with gas, chemical with chemical.

If we did not launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack but were only responding to one I really do not believe there would be much outcry from the rest of the world because they would see we were defending ourselves.

I am not religous but if there were a nuclear attack on our soil then there will be a war on Islam. Sad fact but true.

And that is the point of the warning or the question as to whether we should issue one, it is to stop the first one from ever going off......

How can you stop what is inevitable? Maybe not a nuke attack, but something just as nasty but not as messy.

At the rate that you are breeding revenge hungry people, it is inevitable.

David Atkins means well but the "blowback" from such a foreign policy
would make every other experiment in US government imperialism pale by
comparison. A better idea is for the US to get the hell OUT of the Middle
East. It is US presence there that will result in a nuclear device
going off in an American city, not Islam wanting to "rule the earth" or
terrorists "hating our freedoms". Of course most Muslims don't want it
to happen.. so why are Americans continuing on a course of action in the
Middle East that guarantees it WILL happen?

Mock,

It would be nice if getting the U.S. out of the middle east could allow us just to forget about the people over there and we'd never hear from them again. Ah, if life were only just so simple. Yeah, temporarily they would probably leave us alone - until they start bitching about our support of Israel or that Western culture is invading their realm. One way or another we would be back on their target again - only the next time they would have more power & they could bring the fight to our soil, since we'd gave up any control we had there. Besides you're forgetting one other thing - we don't control our government - it's up to those pulling the strings to decide whether we pull out or not. So unless your thinking revolution - forget it.

I'm afraid the truth is once the U.S. leaves the middle east it will just mean they will eventually build nuclear missles capable of reaching the U.S. and it will get to the point of MAD.



True they will never rule the earth because you can't uneducate the peoples of this planet that have learned beyond a simplistic religion- but they'll sure try to destroy it if they can't have it.


[edit on 7-12-2004 by outsider]

See though thats where it gets tricky, do not forget that muslim is a religon not a race. Its hard to determin what religon a person is by just looking at him (well not that hard but it can be) just look at the many African American Muslim groups which are not Arab or Persian heritage, or many of the people who come from mixed backround of white/arab/persian which do not look middle eastern. Even Cat stevens witha good shave would not look muslim. I think it would be a very hard thing to judge religon opposed to race, becouse at the end of the day all some one has to do is say i love jesus and im christian and they do not have to go in to a camp.

But on the other hand then you can do it racialy, then will you put only Arabs in the camps or Persians(Iranians) as well. What about Indians, thier are some muslim factions their. And many muslims residing in Russia and Eastern/Northern Asia.

Another world war will be turned in to East VS West like always, consisting of more than just the middle east by the look of it.

If there is another world war, there won't be anyone left to document it.

Back to square one.

Wow, this kind of blantent stupidity could only come from an american 'patriot' (see brainless zealot). No wonder the world hates people like you. Why wait? Why not nuke them now? Oh thats right....because the retaliatory strike would wipe 'the land of the free' (what a joke that is) off the face of the earth. The truth is that over zealous americans such as yourself are cowards, fighting their wars with heavy armour and long range missiles. Deep down they fear the brave iraqi running around with sandals and an old damaged soviet era weapon.

Want to know something funny? The US cannot defeat islam in their newest version of the bloody crusades. The army is stretched so thin and the economy is spiraling downward. Fun times eh?

Our elightened edsinger again...

Yeah lets deter any attacks on the US, good idea! Its very important because the US army is never home it's usually too busy invading/occupying other places.

On a more serious note... yeah lets threaten the world with destruction! Great that will really help!
The point you seemed top have missed is that the biggest agressor at the moment is the US. The only country goin round kicking poor blown peoples butt is the US.

We need to threaten the US with complete annihilation if it continues to act in this impericalistic and violent way.

How little you know, the brave Iraq as you say does not fight in the open, they run as they did in falujah, they hide and attack from holy sites. You are not even close.

the economy isn't that bad and yes we are stretched at the moment but not catastrophically so..




No you seem to forget that war was declared on the United States by Radical Islam and we chose to fight and took the fight to them and you can whine all you want but that is the truth. If we were imperialistic we would OWN Iraq and we could very easily.......your judgment is very flawed.

edsinger, you sound like a typical cold war leftover. No wonder you worship Rumsfeld&Co.
There are, sadly, several of such leftovers curretly in high positions of US goverment, who are trying to solve all problems in 21st century by using the cold war tactics.

Main characteristic of cold war was polarisation of the world. Western and eastern block, western and eastern alies. We have destroyed that mentality in 1989 and all the people running things in the last days of cold war were sent into early retirement in 1992, after Gulf War disaster.
SADLY, they were brought back to life in 2000 and now we all have to pay for that. They have polarised, actualy tried to polarise the world again, but it did not quite work well like they hoped it would. The crap "you are either with us or against us" didn't really catch on in the world, the world which is slightly more aware of whats going on then it was 20 years ago.

You cannot use cold war methods to solve conflicts of the 21st century, simply because the situation is UTTERLY different.

MAD was an option when you had clearly defined two countries, goverments of those countries representing clearly defined ideologies with clearly defined intentions and # load of nukes.
MAD was a threat to GOVERMENTS, to those in power, that they will lose everything if they try to nuke the other side.

You are threatening MAD to rogue groups of people, pissed at you for various different reasons, living in various countries hunted by the police and goverments of those countries. They do not care much about civilian population either, they wouldn't be who they are if they cared. Their power and influence is limited, their ideology unclear. Quite a few of them live in the middle of jesus-loving, gun-loving USA and those are the ones who will probably attack you again. Death IS their goal, they are trained to kill themselves and you want to scare them off with threat to kill them? See the absurdity?

In all your greatness, the almighty CIA, FBI, billions of dollars, terrorists still managed to train in the middle of florida and cary out the attacks. Your woods are full of nutters training for the war with goverment, despite all the "greatness" of your police Timothy McWeigh blew up a building full of people.
Now, you are asking that some middle eastern POOR country, with very limited resources, does a BETTER job in catching terrorists then you did. You expect them to catch every single rogue group or there will be consequences.

I mean, WAKE UP. Wake up to the real world.

The current US administration failed miserably in the fight against terror because they were fighting the war which ended long time ago. They were not ready for this one. Pure force is not how you fight a widespread ideology.
This is not a simple war with simple two sides.
We are NOT fighting Islam, there is no nation called like that, with goverment, military and all.
We are fighting something that requires modern NEW methods of war, world-wide alliance, and not just 20 something random countries, it requires goverments who are flexible, who can change quickly to adapt to new order of things (I know, bad choice of words on a conspiracy site , but you all know what I mean). We do not need some long forgotten ideology, arogant rulers who think they can do it all alone, corrupt presidents... they will fail, and the world will become a much darker place.

Cold War leftover??

Ok so what do we do? When has the Arab world not understood power? You expect them to just stop?

You live in a dreamworld of fairy tales. We didn't start this war but we will finish it.

Reagan summed it this way, "Peace through Strength".........

I will illustrate a way to defeat the evil Terrorists.


Mass production of Huge Nuclear bombs, something making the Tsar Bomba look like firecracker.

Obviously such huge doomsday devices could not even be moved, and that would not be the idea.

The objective would be to break the Earth's Crust, which is aproximatly 30-40 km thick.

Then these Foul engines of doom would be unleashed in several points in the globe.... provoking massive tremours and destabilizing the the majority of tectonic plaques.

The Surface would be engulfed into an Apocaliptic Singular Ocean of Lava.

Life would be extinguished.

Terrorists would loose!


Its a bit radical i know, but its the only way to be sure!


Alternativly one could attempt to excessivly Pollute the planet to provoke extreme atmosphere effects in a Venusian fashion, and fry all life off !

so many possibilities... so little time

Why cant george bush front at the table with Arab leaders , call ceasefire in iraq and elsewhere. Immediatly remove trade sanctions as a goodwill guesture to show willingness to compirimise and find a solution. negotiate, settlements. The nations harbouring terrorist will then have reason to act to remove trrorist and the terrorist orgs have no reason to continue fighting. One party or the other MUST be willing to start negotiation toward solution. Stubborn refusal and the excuse line of "not negotiating with terrorist" is pointless an unproductive. a "war on terror" can never be over while its fought with guns and bombs alone. It must be fought with common sense, something The bush admin is in short supply of.

The problem with this is that this was started, according to Osama, because of US policies towards the Middle East. What would happen if we did change policy and actually tried working with these people to accomplish Peace? While everyone may not agree on Religion and such, I do not see anyone coming over here and helping us with the numerous murders and kidnappings that go on in the US. Yet we are quick to run and jump into things anywhere else. I may be comparing apples to oranges here, but they are both "Orange in color", or "Red in color", if you may. They have the same color, but their shape and size may differ. We have the same things going on in the US as there are in the rest of the world, but there size and scale may be different. Why? Because terrorism is only used when deemed to fit the situation. I consider someone going around my neighborhood murdering someone a terrorist. They create a fear in people with their actions.

If nobody has noticed the "Race" is back on, only on a larger scale, and I really did not find my school "Bully" that fond.

Tart,
Although it saddens me to say so, but your end result could very well come to be. Unforchant but true.

maybe 10+ mecca. sounds good to me.IF and only IF a WMD that causes mass over 10k casualties then use them or why have them as a detterant(sic)

So it's true..

Hitler's Demon will reign again.

i don't usually insult people ed, so i won't insult you. i will say you're spreading propganda for an evil regime(at 23.50/hr.), though.
do a body count. determine how many murdered middle easterners were 'terrorists' and how many were innocent citizens. read the patriot act two, and tell me it's 'american'. tell me how escalating injustice on innocents is going to stop terror. it will increase terror, and that's a simple hatfield and the mccoys fact.
actually, don't bother. i know who you represent, your methods and your madness, and that makes you part of the problem.
you are not 'missing the obvious', you are an accomplice to evil.
bye, for now, buddy.

just like americans can stop bush regime from shredding the constitution and the rights and liberties of americans? HAHAHA!
the world is just like a paint by number with only two colors to you.
man, if it was that simple, this current band of neocon nazi-spawn would be so imprisoned by now for crimes against humanity.
unfortunately, it's always the aggressive, 'mom didn't love me' a-hole minority that involves itself with unjustly dealing death on others, and whom are good at seizing control through coupe'de'tate.

and, speaking of becoming a target, ever been pepper sprayed or beaten by police for exercising the 'right to assembly'?